Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Archive 18
 | This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 |
I don't know if anybody here is a fan of his, but it's currently up for delisting as a GA. It just needs somebody to write an account of his film work since 2011. ♦ Dr. Blofeld
- That is unlikely to be an easy task. NinjaRobotPirate (talk)
Request for review
Request to review this article- Draft:Vyom Yadav. –Brar (Talk)
Request for comments
There was an article by the DailyMail (yes I know, boo hiss) that has a video of actress Bridget Fonda being asked if she would ever return to acting and she replied "I don’t think so, it’s too nice being a civilian." and that no director could get her to come back. I did try to add the source and update her page to reflect her as a "retired" actress since she stopped doing any acting in 2002 but was reverted (which I understand why). However, per Perennial sources, since DailyMail is a deprecated source it "may be used for uncontroversial self-descriptions". I'm just curious of others opinions as I consider that her confirming she's not coming back which would make her retired since she hasn't worked in 20 years. I won't fight it but just curious if other editors could weigh in. LADY LOTUS • TALK
- Never thought I'd say this, but here's a case where we reasonably could use it since that's not contentious and doesn't appear anywhere else. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
- Doesn't appear anywhere else? Type in "bridget fonda" retired to Google and see what pops up. For example, this story from the Los Angeles Times. NinjaRobotPirate (talk)
- Doesn't appear anywhere else? Type in "bridget fonda" retired to Google and see what pops up. For example, this story from the Los Angeles Times. NinjaRobotPirate (talk)
Order of occupation
Forgive me if this has been asked before, but I didn't find it looking through the archive. Is there any rule of thumb for how to handle the order of occupation? Is it by what's most notable, alphabetical, chronological, or case by case? I've seen this a few times, but most recently for Greta Gerwig and Clint Eastwood. With Gerwig's recent success as a director, there have been a few editors changing her from "actor, writer, and director" to "director, actor, writer" or some other combination. Thanks! - Nemov (talk)
- I’ve never seen anything specific for the order but I would imagine it’s whatever the person was known for first then list out occupations as they go. Unless the first thing is now a “former” occupation then you would do the next most relevant occupation. Ex: Bob Smith is a British actor and former model. But if they we’re still a model and did that first then model would be first. Hope that helps lol LADY LOTUS • TALK
Jeffrey Katzenberg request
Hi editors, I'm Jeffrey and I work for WndrCo. I've been going through the COI request process on the Jeffrey Katzenberg Talk page (I am not him, but I do work for him) and recently Spintendo requested that I build consensus with editors in the subject area for a request to modify language about Katzenberg's career with Disney. I'd love some additional feedback on the sentence I proposed, which relates to the Disney Renaissance.
Please let me know what you think of the change I proposed. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk)
Clint Eastwood's occupations
There's a RfC on whether producer should be listed in the lead on the biography of Clint Eastwood. I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks! Nemov (talk)
Hong Chau accolades
Regarding Hong Chau, there is a discussion about the presentation of the "Accolades" section. See the discussion here: Talk:Hong Chau#Accolades. Thanks, Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me)
Ethan Hawke FAR
I have nominated Ethan Hawke for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. FrB.TG (talk)
Jerry Seinfeld
Just looking to get some other opinions on some simple wording being disputed on this article. See "Ridiculous wording". Thanks! Jauerbackdude?/dude.
This topic seems to come up fairly often. I've seen discussions, but can't find any consensus statement: Does "Theatre" belong under "Filmography"? My edit to Milly Alcock was reverted and I'm not interested in an edit war, so I'll leave to members of this group to decide. Thank you. 76.14.122.5 (talk)
- The answer is no when those live performances are very much separate entities from those recorded for TV/film, so you were justified in changing to a more encompassing "Acting credits" heading. Another option could be "Performances" which is even broader (but could also involve non-acting endeavors). SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
- Thanks! 76.14.122.5 (talk)
- Thanks! 76.14.122.5 (talk)
I am working on the draft and gathers some references there. Pramod Pati's works are too tough to describe in my own words as I am not native speaker of English. Can any one help? Regards,- Nizil (talk)
On Talk:Paul Bettany (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs), an RfC about how to describe the actor's national identity in the first sentence is taking place. Please find the discussion here. Comments from members of this project would be helpful and appreciated. Thank you very much. KyleJoantalk
FAR for Shaylee Mansfield
I have nominated Shaylee Mansfield for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?
Deborah Oppenheimer
I came across Deborah Oppenheimer via WP:THQ#Added biographical data that was removed. I've done some rudimentry cleanup and trimming, added some citations, but there's still probably lots more that can be done. I'm hoping that someone from this WikiProject might be able to help split up to lead into body sections and perhaps add more about the subject life. -- Marchjuly (talk)
There is a move discussion regarding Hollywood actress Kieu Chinh / Kiều Chinh which could use more participation. Softlavender (talk)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Trey Parker and Matt Stone#Merge proposal, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Hameltion (talk | contribs)
Leslie Nielsen has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Spinixster (chat!)
Robert Benchley has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk)
Paresh Mokashi has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk)
The redirect See You On Venus has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 29 § See You On Venus until a consensus is reached. — Archer1234 (t·c)
- Due to the lack of response, the request for discussion of See You On Venus has been relisted at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_6#See_You_On_Venus. Readers of this page are encouraged to comment on the redirect there. — Archer1234 (t·c)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Henry Mancini § Piccolo in infobox. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions)
Draft article awaiting review for director/writer Misha Manson-Smith
I have a draft biography pending review for director/writer Misha Manson-Smith. It has yet to be reviewed after some weeks. Seeking feedback to progress it getting published. Intending to link it to a new article on "hybrid comedy" which is a niche but specific sub genre as performed by the likes of Sacha Baron Cohen, Nathan Fielder, Marc Wootton and Eric Andre, in which actors play fictional characters interacting with unsuspecting people in documentary like situations. Manson-Smith has directed a number of works in this field. On the help chat, I was advised to post here, along with the key citations that demonstrate notability. Links below. Any feedback would be most helpful.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2010/may/08/marc-wootton-lala-land
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/arts/television/25lala.html
https://www.shots.net/news/view/misha-manson-smith-cutting-to-the-funny-bone
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3563459.stm
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2004/feb/12/israelandthepalestinians.festivals
https://www.screendaily.com/production/misha-manson-smith-to-direct-sex-education-/5023123.article
https://news.sky.com/story/hasselhoff-show-wins-best-comedy-at-international-emmy-awards-10667293
https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/drama/kiss-me-first-channel-4/netflix/5127827.article
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/apr/11/broadcasting
BlueFox2023 (talk)
Women's month categorization drive
Hello. In honor of women's month, there is a categorization drive. You can help populating the Category:Women's firsts in the film industry or other categories you may want. Sincerely, Thinker78 (talk)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Jeffrey Wright § This reversal. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions)
Ron Harper, actor, rip, 91
No data anywhere on his 1964 tv show w Connie Stevens, Wendy & me. Huh? Wiki needs to search better. Imo. J 2601:145:8003:2930:899D:799E:6751:B8AB (talk)
Not done If you can search better, please supply a citation. Peaceray (talk)
Kaylee Hottle
There is a discussion at Kaylee Hottle about mentioning her deafness in the lead section. Other editors are invited to comment. Discussion can be found here: Talk:Kaylee Hottle § Deafness. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me)
One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!
 Hello, |
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Cheang Pou-soi#Requested move 3 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk)
Whether Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, currently at AfD, stays as an article or becomes a redirect to Rust shooting incident, her article/redirect should have a category, a child of Category:Film people. But which cat? Our article on her profession is Weapons master, and there is one named bluelinked example there, but he was personally a shooter and stuntman, so that doesn't help. I can't even find a category for "Technical crew member" or similar. Any suggestions as to which category is appropriate for her, from the film experts of this project? I've added Category:American women in film for now, as bringing her into the film hierarchy, but there must be somewhere better? PamD
Filip Geljo
Would someone from this worl group take a look at Filip Geljo and assess it per WP:BIO and WP:NACTOR? I came across it via WP:THQ#Error message and it doesn't look like the sources cited meet WP:SIGCOV, but there might be other better sources out there per WP:NEXIST. -- Marchjuly (talk)
Bridgit Mendler
There is a discussion at Bridgit Mendler about including the University of Southern California in the infobox's education parameter. It can be found at Talk:Bridgit Mendler#Education. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions)
Greta Gerwig
There's a RFC on the order of occupations in the lead. Please contribute if you're interested. This comes up from time to time on articles about filmmakers and there doesn't appear to be a guideline. Nemov (talk)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Madonna#Requested move 1 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk!
Christian Manon
Would some others mind taking a look at Christian Manon? I stumbled across while checking on some recent file uploads, and it appears that it's been edited by the subject himself numerous times over the years, the last being this from a few months back. The article might've also created by the subject back in 2006 using the account Christian Manon. Anyway, I tried Googling the name and didn't really get any hits that show WP:GNG or even WP:NACTOR. Some primary sources show up, but not really any secondary ones. The article was AfD already once in 2006, but it doesn't seemed to have really improved since then. I thought about adding {{Notability}} to the top of the article, but not sure if there's a point after all these years. I did some minor clean up, added an infobox photo and added a citation, but it seems like there might just be too much to WP:OVERCOME. -- Marchjuly (talk)
Afsaneh Salari
Could someone from this WikiProject take a look at Afsaneh Salari and assess it per WP:BIO? The article was originally submitted as a draft to WP:AfC, but was declined. The creator then moved essentially the same declined version to the mainspace themselves, but it was draftied for the reasons given at User talk:Mr.izadpanah#Draftification of Afsaneh Salari. The creator then moved it back to the mainspace. I asked an administrator who posts at WT:AFC about this at User talk:Primefac#Afsaneh Salari and it was suggested that WP:AfD would need to be next step if the subject doesn't meet WP:N. WP:BEFORE doing that, I'd thought I see whether anyone else feels this WP:NEXISTS and just needs better sourcing (perhaps even sources not in English). -- Marchjuly (talk)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kris Kristofferson § Lyme Disease - revisited, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions)
Notable career progression content in the lead
Input is appreciated at Talk:Aubrey Plaza#Lead. There's a dispute pertaining to someone removing notable career content from the lead. Please provide input on whether such content that reliable sources consider significant in the actor/producer's career should be present in the lead. Please refer to the content-related comments in that discussion for further context, including the bullet point specification of the issues. Thanks. Lapadite (talk)
Nina L. Diaz
Hi editors, I made a request for the Nina L. Diaz article that folks here may find of interest. Happy to answer any questions. I made the request as part of my work with Beutler Ink, so I have a COI and will not make the changes myself. Cheers BINK Robin (talk)
Vincent Moon
Could someone take a look at Vincent Moon? It was tagged with {{COI}} back in 2017, but a new account showed a few months back and began working on it. There seems to have been a far amount of puffery, MOS problems and other things added by this account; so, it's quite tempting to simply revert back to last version prior to their showing up. However, that could be a bit bitey which is why I'm seeking input from others before jumping myself. FWIW, I only came across the article while trying to sort through some of the images recently added to it, but it appears to have gotten rather bloated. -- Marchjuly (talk)
Filmographies and Titles for Multi-country filmakers
I've recently been expanding Jesús Franco filmography to flesh it out with some sources. One issue that has come up is that as Franco has directed several films whose production remains a bit hazy, how should we handle some film titles? One film titled Kiss Me Killer had that English title release on a Dutch home video. The film does not appear to have have a native English-language release, but has two other titles its known by from theatrical releases in France and Italy. WP:NCFF has good standards to follow for when we have films in an article, but as many of these works will not like be getting an article any time soon, what is the best method for titling films like this?
I see that there is Eiji Tsuburaya filmography which has the titles presented in different languages. I'm not crazy about the jumping back and forth between tables to get the information, but this presents further difficulty as Franco worked all around Europe, so titles will not just be Spanish for example. Any thoughts on a solution?
Cross posted for more spread in discussion with WP:FILM. Andrzejbanas (talk)
New article review and patrol
A new biography article Andrew Osei-Karmen has just been improved and moved to Wikipedia mainspace. An editor with rights is needed to review and patrol the article for final publishing. Interested editor(s) is/are invited to kindly take action. Bdatpal (talk)
RFC on aligning role fields with mos filmcast guidelines
Hi,
According to MOS:FILMCAST, common nouns within roles should not be capitalised to distinguish between character names and job descriptions. Currently, the use of sentence case introduces ambiguity for readers; for instance, it does not clarify whether 'Joker' refers to a character name or if 'Joker' describes his job when no character name is provided. I encourage you to refer to my related discussion with the user's talk. Therefore, I recommend adopting lowercase for common nouns in the Role field to ensure alignment with MOS:FILMCAST. Anoop Bhatia (talk)
- @Anoopspeaks: Could you give an example of an article where this introduces ambiguity? jlwoodwa (talk)
- @Jlwoodwa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_%28rapper%29?wprov=sfla1 Anoop Bhatia (talk)
- @Anoopspeaks: I'm sorry, I don't see which of those roles is ambiguous. Could you be more specific? jlwoodwa (talk)
- @Jlwoodwa In the filmography, his two character names, Monster T and The Gunsmith, are actual names in the movie, while The Dagger refers only to a dagger, not a character name. Anoop Bhatia (talk)
- @Jlwoodwa In the filmography, his two character names, Monster T and The Gunsmith, are actual names in the movie, while The Dagger refers only to a dagger, not a character name. Anoop Bhatia (talk)
- @Anoopspeaks: I'm sorry, I don't see which of those roles is ambiguous. Could you be more specific? jlwoodwa (talk)
- @Jlwoodwa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_%28rapper%29?wprov=sfla1 Anoop Bhatia (talk)
Robin Williams
Hello. There's a discussion regarding a potential FA push for Robin Williams. It can be found at Talk:Robin Williams#FA plans?. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions)
Hello! We would appreciate your input at this discussion concerning whether totals (|wins=, |nominations=, and |honours=) should be removed from {{infobox awards list}}. Best, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they)
Geoffrey Chalmers → Michael McConnohie
Geoffrey Chalmers currently redirects to Michael McConnohie, but it has been nominated for deletion at RfD. The discussion would significantly benefit from those familiar with sourcing in this topic area, particularly sourcing of credits. Thryduulf (talk)
There is an article for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rina Lipa that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Ckfasdf (talk)
I have proposed splitting Talent agent into a new article Talent agency. Members of this WikiProject are welcome to contribute at Talk:Talent agent#Proposed split. Lord Bolingbroke (talk)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:John Reilly (actor, born 1934)#Requested move 7 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk)
Your input would be welcome at Talk:Eric Braeden#Wilhelm Gustloff. Thanks for participating! Renerpho (talk)
Sarah Vernon
I've been looking for a second source to sustain the notability of Sarah Vernon, daughter of the actor Richard Vernon, who was an actress and blogger. The Stage gave her are relatively full obituary that can be seen here, but I have searched in vain for a second source to make her at least a WP:Basic pass - the best I was able to find was this theatre programme. I've already done extensive Google searches and looked on the Internet Archive, but I don't have access to the British newspaper collection so there might be something there? Anyone suggest anywhere else I might look? Or should I just accept this one isn't notable? FOARP (talk)
Christian Manon (redux)
I've already asked about Christian Manon at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Archive 18#Christian Manon, back in July but I didn't get any responses. I also asked about it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian television#Christian Manon in July, and got one response suggesting AfD. I even tried at Talk:The Office (Australian TV series)#Christian Manon about two weeks ago, but no responses received there as of yet. I've been trying to find sources for Manon, but haven't had much luck. Most of what I did fine were just mentions by name in cast lists or credits, but nothing resembling significant coverage. Even for the role of "Mael" in the film Queen of the Damned, which is what Manon's said to be most notable for, there's nothing in reliable sources other than mentions by name. There are fansites and other websites that mention Manon, but that's both independent and reliable. The article was recently protected because of Manon (I think) continuing to re-add unsourced bio information (Manon's primary account has been WP:SOFTBLOCKed, but that will probably resume one the protection expires sometime later this week. The quandary, then, is that even though Manon appears to be a long-term working actor that has appeared in some well-known films and TV series, there's nothing to indicate that he's received any significant coverage for any of that or that he will anytime soon. The article was created by Cmanon back in 2006, and better sourcing hasn't been found at all since then. Would it be too much to nominate this for AfD given all that's been posted above? -- Marchjuly (talk)
- Don't think so. I don't understand why you haven't gone ahead with it. If SIGCOV turns up during the AfD, that's that. Nardog (talk)
- Perhaps I should've done so earlier, but I'd figure I make an effort to see whether any sources existed. The Australian version of the The Office also recently just started, and I thought there could be coverage on Manon's role in the show. That role, however, appears to be really minor even though it seems to span multiple episodes, and there's really nothing resembling significant coverage related to it. Even Manon's own official website seems to recognize it as such; yet, the "Cmanon" account was used to add that information to the cast list of the article. -- Marchjuly (talk)
- He seems to have been a fairly busy stage actor in the 80s and 90s,and there may be some reviews of the plays somewhere, but I haven't looked yet myself. [1] Laterthanyouthink (talk)
- My feeling is that any claim of Wikipedia notability probably rests more on the part of his career you're referring to above than his later TV and film work. I tried looking for sources from that time period, but couldn't find any. There might be something about him in Australian newspapers from that time period, but I don't know how to check for that. FWIW, I did ask the subject of the article himself if he knew of any such sources at User talk:49.3.210.131 and Talk:Christian Manon, but just got a reply of "Bah" followed up by a re-adding of unsourced bio content. -- Marchjuly (talk)
- Nothing major, but there are a few reviews on Trove: here, here, here, and then some mentions in Sydney-based French mags: [2], [3], [4], and [5]. Laterthanyouthink (talk)
- For more recent and international newspapers, if you register with your state library, they probably have Newsbank, which gives access to lots of publications, including recent issues of paywalled newspapers, which can be very handy sometimes. However, one cannot use online links even if you find an article there. I have sometimes had success by looking at an article there and then searching on the title and date and finding something else via google, such as I've just done with this SMH article, but it's rather a slow and painful process. And still haven't seen any further mention of screen appearances. Laterthanyouthink (talk)
- For more recent and international newspapers, if you register with your state library, they probably have Newsbank, which gives access to lots of publications, including recent issues of paywalled newspapers, which can be very handy sometimes. However, one cannot use online links even if you find an article there. I have sometimes had success by looking at an article there and then searching on the title and date and finding something else via google, such as I've just done with this SMH article, but it's rather a slow and painful process. And still haven't seen any further mention of screen appearances. Laterthanyouthink (talk)
- Nothing major, but there are a few reviews on Trove: here, here, here, and then some mentions in Sydney-based French mags: [2], [3], [4], and [5]. Laterthanyouthink (talk)
- My feeling is that any claim of Wikipedia notability probably rests more on the part of his career you're referring to above than his later TV and film work. I tried looking for sources from that time period, but couldn't find any. There might be something about him in Australian newspapers from that time period, but I don't know how to check for that. FWIW, I did ask the subject of the article himself if he knew of any such sources at User talk:49.3.210.131 and Talk:Christian Manon, but just got a reply of "Bah" followed up by a re-adding of unsourced bio content. -- Marchjuly (talk)
- He seems to have been a fairly busy stage actor in the 80s and 90s,and there may be some reviews of the plays somewhere, but I haven't looked yet myself. [1] Laterthanyouthink (talk)
- Perhaps I should've done so earlier, but I'd figure I make an effort to see whether any sources existed. The Australian version of the The Office also recently just started, and I thought there could be coverage on Manon's role in the show. That role, however, appears to be really minor even though it seems to span multiple episodes, and there's really nothing resembling significant coverage related to it. Even Manon's own official website seems to recognize it as such; yet, the "Cmanon" account was used to add that information to the cast list of the article. -- Marchjuly (talk)
When is an actor "retired"?
Should an actor be labelled "retired" when they haven't had a role for several years and are elderly? Or should we require a published source that says they've retired or don't intend to act anymore or words to that effect? Recent edits to Robert Wagner reminded me that I've wondered this before. Personally, I would hesitate to label someone retired when they haven't said so, but I wanted to check with this project first. Schazjmd (talk)
- Definitely wait for a formal declaration of retiring or at least not planning to act in the future. People can take lengthy hiatuses between acting roles, so we shouldn't automatically assume they've stopped based solely on time that has passed since their most recent endeavor. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Michael Scott (film director)#Requested move 2 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:John Savage (actor)#Requested move 4 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia
Kris Kristofferson revamp
Not too long ago, I created a discussion page on what to do with making Kris Kristofferson a GA or an FA. The discussion is at Talk:Kris Kristofferson#Potential revamp. I've also created a sandbox for the article redraft here.
Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions)
Discussion at Hugh Jackman
There's a discussion at Talk:Hugh Jackman#Singer in the lead revisited about whether or not to include singer in the lead of Hugh Jackman's page. I thought that people here might want to participate in it. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done)
Kaylee Hottle and Saturn Award nomination
Regarding Kaylee Hottle, there is a discussion underway about whether or not the lead section should mention her Saturn Award nomination. The discussion can be seen here: Talk:Kaylee Hottle § Saturn Award. Editors are invited to comment. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me)
WP:FILMNAV says, "Filmographies (and similar) of individuals should also not be included in navboxes, unless the individual concerned could be considered a primary creator of the material in question. This avoids over-proliferation of individuals' navboxes on each production's article, and avoids putting undue weight on the contributions of certain individuals over others." This means that we should not have navboxes listing writing or producing credits because these credits often have more than one person. I'm concerned that this has been ignored, judging from the bloat I see at Category:Film writer navigational boxes, which proves the point of the above guideline in creating bloat and misframing the person as the sole writer for the given set of films. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me)
- Except writers, along with directors, are primary creators of films. Producers, definitely not, but writers? Definitely. —Joeyconnick (talk)
Discussion about what to credit actors for at Rosie O'Donnell
There's a discussion on Talk:Rosie O'Donnell about what roles should be credited and what the requirements should be for those credits to be included. I've been told by User:ObserveOwl to ask for your guys' input on that.
I'm rather new to all this so I apologise if I've done something wrong here but it would be good to get a clear consensus on how stuff like this would work as to prevent future edit wars. ZestySourBoy (talk)
Is this model really notable? Bearian (talk)
James Rebhorn
Not included in Films James Rebhorn
James Rebhorn appeared in the 1983 film '"Brainstorm,”' where he played the character of Alex. In the movie, Alex is a scientist who works on the Project Brainstorm, an invention that can record and play back human experiences. Michael, played by Christopher Walken, confronts Alex about the project, blaming him for his son’s condition after the son inadvertently viewed a disturbing tape. Alex denies any knowledge of the project and informs Michael about the death of Gordy, another scientist involved in the project. Dr Jahoda (talk)
- I'm not sure why you're raising this here, versus at the Talk page for Rebhorn, or even just making any changes you wish to make? DonIago (talk)
- Looking at Brainstorm (1983 film), it shows that Cliff Robertson played Alex Terson. I confirmed this in reliable sources outside of Wikipedia. I don't see any connection between this film and James Rebhorn. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me)
It makes a whole lot more sense to change the !scope="row" scope to the title of the works instead of the year as the year isn't the main focus in a filmography, its the title of the work. The scope doesn't have to be the first square on the most left part of the table, it can be anywhere on the table. Also changing the way that the table captions are structured so that the information is actually helpful to those with screen readers. "Film performances" doesn't really convey all the information but "Film appearances with year, title, role, and other selected details" is so much better.
TLDR: I am proposing to change:
- The row scope to the title of the work and not the year.
- To fix the captions to help convey proper information.
Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥
- Are you talking about switching the "Year" and "Title" columns? From a data-sorting standpoint, it is a best practice for the columns to be sorted from left to right, and lists of works are preferred chronologically.
- As for the table caption, that alternative strikes me as a little convoluted. MOS:TABLECAPTION should be followed. Erik (talk | contrib)
- @Erik, No, I am talking about the scopes and not switching the columns. You can see the change that I did at Migos#Filmography that reflects this. I also never said to completely get rid of the table captions but to change the usual way that information is conveyed with it. Putting just “Films” or “Film appearances” doesn’t help anyone with a screen reader to quickly hear what the table offers so putting “Film appearances with year, role, and other details” works better. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥
- Okay, that makes sense now. I think I'm used to seeing no scope beyond the columns. From what I can tell, it seems fine to implement, but I would like to hear from others. So you are saying that doing this helps with screen readers, right?
- As for my mention of MOS:TABLECAPTION, my point was that that section under Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial has the caption "Bell's television appearances and roles", so what you suggest for that seems more wordy than necessary, assuming that the editors who put together that tutorial page got it right to write the table caption that way. Erik (talk | contrib)
- Basically, yes. Using
!scope="row"will help identify what is the main topic of the row. For more information about the general usage of it, check out this."List of television appearances and roles" makes sense to have it but I also thing it should have like "List of television appearances and roles, with relevant details" if there is an actual notes section, as I know some filmographies don't always have a notes section. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥
- Basically, yes. Using
- This seems to indicate that such a table caption should be relatively straightforward. The Bell caption example fits that more than what you suggested. Is there an accessibility standard that says the caption needs to be more descriptive than that? Erik (talk | contrib)
- @Erik, No, I am talking about the scopes and not switching the columns. You can see the change that I did at Migos#Filmography that reflects this. I also never said to completely get rid of the table captions but to change the usual way that information is conveyed with it. Putting just “Films” or “Film appearances” doesn’t help anyone with a screen reader to quickly hear what the table offers so putting “Film appearances with year, role, and other details” works better. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥
A suggestion for first-sentence occupations
I don't know if this is the right place to put this; if not, please point me to the correct place. I noticed that when an actor has performed non-voice roles, they are listed in the first sentence as "actor" and not "voice actor". While I understand the logic behind this (voice acting is a form of acting, after all), this is net negative information for the reader; in reality, voice acting is very different from on-screen acting, and is treated differently by the media. There is no sense in just classifying them as actors just because technically it's also a form of acting. Furthermore, especially with criticism surrounding celebrities performing voice acting, I really think it would be beneficial for readers to be able to easily parse if an actor is generally considered a "voice actor" or not.
Obviously, not every actor that has done a voice role is a voice actor. Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be a voice actor just because he's been in a few animated movies. Obviously, the criteria can be fine-tuned and isn't up to me, but as a preliminary idea, I was thinking to include people that predominantly known for voice acting (think Tom Kenny, Frank Welker, or Tara Strong) as well as actors that are known for onscreen work but do a lot of voice acting, such as Clancy Brown, Mark Hamill, Alan Tudyk, or Keith David. If you think the idea has merit but the criteria should be different, I'd love to hear an alternate criteria. Thoughts? Ladtrack (talk)
- When someone has done live-action work along with voiceover roles, it would be redundant to add "voice actor" in an opening sentence that already uses the more encompassing "actor" term. As Hank Azaria (who has done extensive work with both types) notes in this article, doing voiceovers involves more than just providing vocals. He writes about folks such as himself often acting out things their characters are doing when they record lines. As far as I can tell, the main difference is whether viewers physically see someone's performance or only hear their voices. I either way don't understand how the absence of "voice" would be a net negative when you've openly admitted how voice acting is a type of acting. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
- I understand this and did not intend to diminish the role that voice actors play. Quite the opposite, actually. Voice acting is a unique skill that requires a different and equally impressive skillset as onscreen acting.
- To give examples of a few of the many differences, quickly:
- Most (though not all) voice actors have to act alone, while live actors can interact with other cast members
- Live actors have to be concerned with how they look
- Voice actors frequently have to match dialogue with already animated material, requiring lip syncing
- This proposal isn't intended to denigrate voice actors. It is for ease of use for average Wikipedia readers.
- Take, for example, the Mario movie, perhaps the most high profile recent example of a voice actor vs. live actor controversy. The controversy centered on that nearly the entire main cast was composed almost entirely of celebrities that almost exclusively do live-action work, and especially that Chris Pratt, a primarily live action actor, performed the role of Mario rather than longtime Mario performer Charles Martinet, who is normally classified as a voice actor. As a matter of fact, the only major role in that film played by a substantially-voice actor is that of Kevin Michael Richardson. This is something that could really only be discovered by reading the pages of every actor and roughly analyzing what percentage of a given actor's roles are voice roles. This is because, like every other actor in the film, Richardson is listed as simply an actor in the first sentence. Even Martinet himself is listed as an actor.
- Why not make it easier for people? If the first sentence were to change, it could provide a quick glance to get the relevant information. It could even appear on the WP:SDESC so a reader can get it by hovering the links on the film's page. I genuinely don't see any downside. If you do, please explain it to me. Ladtrack (talk)
- Assuming you seek to only use "voice actor" in the opening sentences of some pages, that makes it sound like someone's filmography credits are solely or almost entirely voice roles, which would be an oversimplification for many folks. Furthermore, there are people known for their work in the voiceover industry that specifically identify as actors as opposed to voice actors, possibly including Tara Strong herself. This adds more emphasis to how it's a form of acting and suggests their members don't wish to be pigeonholed into a certain category. Yes, there certainly are differences in how the performances are carried out, but let's not overlook their similarities. Like Strong, Tom Kenny is someone who has lots of live action credits that shouldn't simply be glossed over even when their voice roles often get more attention. Conversely, nearly all credited roles of folks like Jim Cummings and Grey DeLisle are voiceovers, so the latter two are people I'd be more inclined to just use "voice actor" for instead of "actor". Frank Welker might fit into the same group as Cummings and DeLisle when he also only seems to have a handful of live action credits which regardless are vastly outnumbered by his voice acting roles. Since you brought up Kevin Michael Richardson, he has a much higher quantity than Welker of non-voiceovers, even when his totals slant more towards voice acting. I suspect that's why Richardson is classified as an actor. The same goes for Charles Martinet. With that said, it should be decided on a case-by-case basis on whether to add "voice" to the "actor" description of somebody's bio page. You appear to be aiming for a broad sweep of changes across various articles. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
- Apologies if I wasn't clear but I meant including both, not just voice actor. So Richardson's page would say "Kevin Michael Richardson (born October 25, 1964) is an American actor and voice actor". Basically it adds voice actor as a second occupation for people that do a substantial amount of voice acting. Same for everyone else I mentioned. Ladtrack (talk)
- In that case, see my previous comments on redundancy, and it's better to save "voice actor" for those with over 90% voice roles and little to no live-action credits. Having both in the same sentence would feel as clunky as "film and stage actor" or "stage and television actor". SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
- I get it feels a little redundant but can you explain any possible way that it would actually be worse for readers? It's an extra three words. The redundancy thing feels like a pedantic issue. Yes, you are technically correct, voice actors are a form of actor. They are not, however, treated the same way as a live-action actor is. If they were, there wouldn't be a controversy over celebrity screen actors taking roles from voice actors. Adding voice actor actively helps the understanding of Wikipedia readers. I have already given an example of how. How would leaving it out help readers? That is what we're trying to do, after all. Ladtrack (talk)
- I get it feels a little redundant but can you explain any possible way that it would actually be worse for readers? It's an extra three words. The redundancy thing feels like a pedantic issue. Yes, you are technically correct, voice actors are a form of actor. They are not, however, treated the same way as a live-action actor is. If they were, there wouldn't be a controversy over celebrity screen actors taking roles from voice actors. Adding voice actor actively helps the understanding of Wikipedia readers. I have already given an example of how. How would leaving it out help readers? That is what we're trying to do, after all. Ladtrack (talk)
- In that case, see my previous comments on redundancy, and it's better to save "voice actor" for those with over 90% voice roles and little to no live-action credits. Having both in the same sentence would feel as clunky as "film and stage actor" or "stage and television actor". SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
- Apologies if I wasn't clear but I meant including both, not just voice actor. So Richardson's page would say "Kevin Michael Richardson (born October 25, 1964) is an American actor and voice actor". Basically it adds voice actor as a second occupation for people that do a substantial amount of voice acting. Same for everyone else I mentioned. Ladtrack (talk)
- Assuming you seek to only use "voice actor" in the opening sentences of some pages, that makes it sound like someone's filmography credits are solely or almost entirely voice roles, which would be an oversimplification for many folks. Furthermore, there are people known for their work in the voiceover industry that specifically identify as actors as opposed to voice actors, possibly including Tara Strong herself. This adds more emphasis to how it's a form of acting and suggests their members don't wish to be pigeonholed into a certain category. Yes, there certainly are differences in how the performances are carried out, but let's not overlook their similarities. Like Strong, Tom Kenny is someone who has lots of live action credits that shouldn't simply be glossed over even when their voice roles often get more attention. Conversely, nearly all credited roles of folks like Jim Cummings and Grey DeLisle are voiceovers, so the latter two are people I'd be more inclined to just use "voice actor" for instead of "actor". Frank Welker might fit into the same group as Cummings and DeLisle when he also only seems to have a handful of live action credits which regardless are vastly outnumbered by his voice acting roles. Since you brought up Kevin Michael Richardson, he has a much higher quantity than Welker of non-voiceovers, even when his totals slant more towards voice acting. I suspect that's why Richardson is classified as an actor. The same goes for Charles Martinet. With that said, it should be decided on a case-by-case basis on whether to add "voice" to the "actor" description of somebody's bio page. You appear to be aiming for a broad sweep of changes across various articles. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
Re-read what I wrote on clunkiness. I thought that already made it obvious how this wouldn't be beneficial. Having both at once nevertheless doesn't read as well as simply "actor", and there are previous threads on were other editors also opposed such a practice for similar reasons to what I gave. As for treating live action actors vs. voiceover actors in different ways, that comes off as a dubious attempt to needlessly divide types of works people do and pigeonhole them. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
- First of all, I'm not the one designating them voice actors. Richardson considers himself a voice actor and lists it separately to screen acting. Clancy Brown also considers himself a voice actor, as does Tom Kenny, as does Keith David. I could probably find more but I'm not going to bother. Clearly they themselves don't feel that "voice actor" is redundant when each one of them "already uses the more encompassing "actor" term".
- Secondly, as I've showed with the Mario example and probably several hundred other movies that I'm sure you can think of yourself, Hollywood treats voice actors differently. If you want more proof, look no further than the Academy Awards. As a reminder, this difference in treatment is difficult to discern on Wikipedia, and the proposed change would make it substantially easier on readers. Including it separately actively provides readers more information. Rereading the example I gave, I will agree that it looks kind of clunky, but I'm sure the phrasing can be ironed out, and even if it can't, this has gotta be a net positive. Ladtrack (talk)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Robin Williams § Including Zachary and Cody, Electric Boogaloo, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions)
I believe the article Patricia Rooney (a film editor active in the 1920s and 1930s) is a conflation of two different people: the obscure nominal film editor, and Marion Bent (Q133273754) (1879-1940), the much more notable vaudeville actress, wife of Pat Rooney II. IMDB conflates the two, but IMDB is unreliable and often wrong, and no reliable sources appear to support the actress and film editor being the same person, leaving virtually zero biographical info for Patricia. See current discussion at Talk:Patricia Rooney. I've found census evidence that Patricia Rooney the editor may have been born ca. 1899 in New York. Perhaps someone with access to newspaper archives can do a deep dive and find some better info to help clarify. Cheers, --Animalparty! (talk)
Participants of this WikiProject might be interested in adding comments to the above reassessment. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Adam Scott (actor)#Requested move 18 March 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RachelTensions (talk)
One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!
Hello, |
Can you please assess this against the B-Class criteria? Thanks in advance. Please also ping me when you're done. Bearian (talk)
Done -Mushy Yank.
Hello WikiProject team,
I recently created and moved the article [[Sumukha (actor)]] to mainspace. He is an emerging actor and filmmaker in the Kannada film industry, known for directing and starring in Physics Teacher (2022) and acting in Manada Kadalu (2025).
I would appreciate it if someone could kindly review and assess the article for quality and importance on the project's assessment scale.
Any feedback or suggestions for improvement would also be very welcome.
Thank you! Doglady95 (talk)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mark Ferguson#Requested move 15 April 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Yeshivish613 (talk)