Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/History and geography
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The purpose of this discussion page is to select 50,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles.
Any article currently on this list may be challenged. The discussion is open to the following rules:
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- Before being closed, a Level 5 proposal must:
- Run for at least 15 days; AND
- Allow at least 7 days after the most recent vote; AND
- Have at least 4 participants.
- For a proposal to be implemented on the Level 5 list:
- It must have over 60% support (see table); AND
- It must have at least 4 support votes !votes.
- For proposed additions from August 2024 onwards, the nominator should list (and possibly link to) at least one potential section in the level 5 vital articles list for the article to be added to. Supporters can also help in this regard.
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The following link represent all current Level 5 Vital articles that are classified as History and Geography subjects:
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
These are 3D computer graphics representation of elevation data to represent terrain or overlaying objects, commonly of a planet, moon, or asteroid. Widely used in cartography and spatial analysis. They are often generated with Radar, LiDAR, or photogrammetry.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 12:00, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
From the lede "The Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM) is an international research effort that obtained digital elevation models on a near-global scale from 56°S to 60°N, to generate the most complete high-resolution digital topographic database of Earth prior to the release of the ASTER GDEM in 2009." The space shuttle basically took a Radar photo of large sections of the planet. We still use these products widely today. Could also go under STEM but I thought I'd propose it here first.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. Let's keep it with Geography even if it has a highly-technical back-story. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 21:18, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Most commonly used GIS software in the United States. Widely used in the creation of maps.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. Let's keep it with Geography even if it's a technical product. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Changing to oppose, I think Geographic information system
5 is enough. I'd rather list all computer software on the Technology page. Makkool (talk) 09:37, 28 January 2025 (UTC) - Don't think this is quite on the same level as others at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Technology#Specific software. J947 ‡ edits 00:46, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Widely used open source GIS software.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. Let's keep it with Geography even if it's a technical product. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Changing to oppose, I think Geographic information system 5 is enough. I'd rather list all computer software on the Technology page. Makkool (talk) 09:37, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- J947 ‡ edits 00:46, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the most common types of Thematic map 
5. They show statistical data aggregated over predefined regions, such as countries or states, by coloring or shading these regions.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
- This kind of map is used everywhere; good for a vital article. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 19:54, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. J947 ‡ edits 00:48, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the most common types of Thematic map 5. They use point symbols of different sizes (height, length, area, or volume) to represent quantitative statistical values associated with different areas or locations within the map.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 16:31, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- We list a grand total of 5 types of charts at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Mathematics#Statistics and probability. There's already 5 types of maps listed. These are a step below those, and I can't see how they're anything other than VA6. J947 ‡ edits 00:52, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the most common types of Thematic map 5. They place small point symbols over a given space to indicate the distribution of a given phenomenon.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 17:20, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
GeogSage tried to close this vote but we are supposed to wait 7 day before closing votes. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 21:32, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the most common types of Thematic map 5. They use line symbols to portray movement or relationship between two or more places, such as air travel, monetary aid, or economic trade.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, adds depth and Cartography still has the room. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 12:49, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 05:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
After Sahaib noticed we don't include the North Yemen civil war 5, that got me wondering about Oman next door. Sure enough, we're missing both the Jebel Akhdar War 5 and Dhofar War.
Both during the Cold War, these 2 wars are arguably what created the modern state of Oman and also demonstrate a lot of foreign skullduggery. Prior to these wars, the Sultanate of Oman was largely a colonial and coastal affair, with the Oman interior controlled for over a millennium by an effectively independent, elected imamate.
As for space, History is just about at the quota, but we have a 2% cushion so I'm just going to propose these as straight additions.
- Support
- As nom. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 16:42, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure. I'll go through history a bit and see if anything jumps out for a removal proposal as well. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 17:56, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Support Dhofar only. The other one doesn't have enough interwikis. The JA War also resulted in less than 1,000 killed; less than loads of battles and offensives we DON'T have pbp 05:54, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
- Fair enough, though TBF we list a lot of things that killed way fewer people too. Not trying to change your mind, but like I said above, it's more notable for the level of Cold War intrigue and how completely it reshaped the political map of Oman, which is a country with some pull. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 16:51, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Support Jebel Akhdar War. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 11:13, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
I've added the Dhofar war to the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lophotrochozoa (talk • contribs) 19:24, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Different from Churchill River (Hudson Bay) 5. Largest river in Atlantic Canada 5 and likely of importance to the region.
- Support
- As nom. B3251(talk) 20:45, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, Phys Geo is still under quota so no need to overthink it. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 19:13, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:46, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
Add Lerma River
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Large river in Mexico that seems to be of pretty good importance. Empties into Lake Chapala 5. Would maybe make a good addition to a subsection which currently only has one article (Rivers > Mexico and Central America).
- Support
- As nom. B3251(talk) 20:45, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, Phys Geo is still under quota so no need to overthink it. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 19:13, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 18:10, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1/2 of Newfoundland and Labrador 5, along with Newfoundland (island) 4. Though sparsely populated, the region of Labrador is of importance and should be recognized as VA. Part of the Labrador Peninsula 5.
- Support
- As nom. B3251(talk) 20:45, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, Countries/Regions are under-quota (and should still be if our lists + quota cut works). No need to overthink it. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I think there's already sufficient coverage of this area – the human geo stuff is covered in Newfoundland and Labrador, and the physical geo stuff is covered in Labrador Peninsula. With a population of only 27,000, Labrador doesn't command its own article at VA5 in my opinion. J947 ‡ edits 22:09, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- @J947 just a suggestion to at least make some additions to the under-quota category. There is more specific history related to Labrador that isn't covered in the NL&L and peninsula articles. B3251(talk) 13:19, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
- This page is about to be filled up with some important African and Asian first-level subdivisions, so we don't need to list this redundant area. Listing the peninsula is enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:15, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Per QuicoleJR. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 18:22, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Connects Nova Scotia 5, a peninsula province, to the mainland New Brunswick 5. Lots of history from back during the Acadia 5 days (see Raid on Chignecto (1696) & Battle at Chignecto, as well as the Battle of Fort Beauséjour for example), and is extremely vital for transportation between the two provinces. This has been highlighted more recently due to the largely low elevated land on the isthmus which has been prone to flooding.
- Support
- As nom. B3251(talk) 20:45, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, Phys Geo is still under quota so no need to overthink it. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 13:51, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Region in Oman, Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Related articles include Kingdom of Hadhramaut, Hadhramaut Governorate, Hadramautic language, Hadhrami Arabic and Hadharem.
- Support
- As nom. Sahaib (talk) 21:42, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, important plus Countries/Regions are under-quota (and should still be if our lists + quota cut works). No need to overthink it. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 18:21, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Because this city is the largest in Eastern Syria, and was the final destination of the deportees of the Armenian genocide, it is no doubt vital at this level. RekishiEJ (talk) 15:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom.--RekishiEJ (talk) 15:31, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, I get the feeling we'll try to trim Cities more soon, but this is a decent singular addition. Also larger than Manbij 5, which we already list, and notable as a frontline during the civil war. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 17:06, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Seems important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:08, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 20:37, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Bailiwick of Guernsey is more broader as it includes Alderney and Sark which are not listed.
- Support
- As nom. Sahaib (talk) 07:56, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Mixed
- Oppose removal, support addition. No need to overcomplicate it. I think we're still under quota in Phys Geo where the island is listed, and should have room for the polity in Countries/Regions, regardless of whether the bulk list-removal goes through. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 18:38, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Support addition: we should keep Guernsey in Islands and add Bailiwick of Guernsey to Regions and country subdivisions Makkool (talk) 16:56, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- Support addition, oppose removal per Zar2gar1 and Makkool. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 21:02, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I would nominate Windscale fire it was a Nuclear Accident in the United Kingdom.
- Support
- 1keyhole (talk) 04:36, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, we're just about at quota now and trying to represent disasters a bit more came up recently. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 02:51, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:00, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Errr... so what? Not famous, just a local industrial accident. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:55, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Per Piotrus. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 23:32, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Not as old or influential as the Jewish conspiracy above (and, indeed, derivative of same), but influential enough to contempoary politics and media (i.e. Alex Jones 5) to justify inclusion at this level. Again, bullshit, but influential bullshit.
- Support
- pbp 18:07, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
- Seems vital enough based on language links (41). Sahaib (talk) 18:11, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
- Sigh. I even know a person who belives in it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:10, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 16:46, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
Oppose here, neutral if we can fit it under Culture somewhere. The idea has real effects, but since (I hope we'll all agree) it's a mythical meme, I don't really think History is the right place for it. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:13, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
- Per above. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 01:22, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
- Discussion
I don't know how many conspiracy theories we list, but I think there are extremely few that are actually vital. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 01:22, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
Since we already apparently list the parent Conspiracy theory 4 article in History for now, I won't get in the way of adding it. I've proposed moving that to Sociology on Lv4 though so my understanding is we'd move this one too, either before or after it passes. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 14:10, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The so called "lost city of the Incas". Served as the capital of the Neo-Inca State from 1539 to 1572, the last refuge of the Inca Empire after the Spanish Conquest. Add to Historical cities.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:11, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- Strong support, especially since listing major historical cities seems less arbitrary to me than filtering contemporary ones. Also, for anyone swinging by, I just want to draw their attention again to the proposals up top, including one to add Pataliputra 5, the capital of the Maurya Empire 4. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 02:51, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:28, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
- Seems very important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:02, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add it where? Historical cities? pbp 22:14, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
Historically the Arabian Peninsula has been divided into four regions. Currently we list three of them: Hejaz 4, Najd 4 and Eastern Arabia 4. I propose we add the remaining one, and a couple of other articles.
Add South Arabia 5
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Historical region located in the southern part of the peninsula, consisting of mainly modern day Yemen and parts of Oman and Saudi-Arabia. The only of the four main historical regions in the area we don't list.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:55, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, and we definitely have the room now. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. J947 ‡ edits 06:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 00:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 08:34, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Historical subregion, located in south-eastern Najd.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:55, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, and we definitely have the room now. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- J947 ‡ edits 06:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 17:39, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Historical subregion, consisting of the western coast of Arabian Peninsula by the Red Sea. Located in the Hejaz region.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:55, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, and we definitely have the room now. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for these proposals. J947 ‡ edits 06:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- support but would like to correct the fact that it is not only in the Hejaz region but is also in the Yemen (region) (Which I think should also be nominated 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 08:35, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Al-Ahsa Oasis 5
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A historical subregion, an oasis and a Unesco World Heritage Site, located in the Eastern Arabian region. Two of the largest cities of Saudi-Arabia are found within it. Not sure where to list this one, should it be in regions, oases in physical geography or World Heritage Sites? I'd suggest regions, but I can be open to other places as well.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:55, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, and personally, I'd probably put it with oases in Phys Geo. In the narrow sense, I think the historical region is still confined to the oasis and not that large (article says ~33 sq. mi.) In the wider sense, the corresponding article is probably the modern Al-Ahsa Governorate. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Probably oases. J947 ‡ edits 06:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Physical geography will have more room. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:13, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Frisia; Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Countries#Germany. Good example of the sort of article we lack.
- Support
- As nom. J947 ‡ edits 06:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:23, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
I don't dislike the idea, but would Frisians be better? Both/either would be OK, but Frisians is in more languages, has refs, more page views, looks like it gets more attention. (I am not opposing this, in fact I am considering supporting.) Carlwev 01:26, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
- Frisians would belong to Culture/Ethnology. We have many pairs of a nation and their homeland, like Bengalis 5 and Bengal 5 for example. Makkool (talk) 14:23, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
German Bight; oceanic seas is an area where many (most?) of the articles at VA5 are also VA4. I think adding this sea is a decent idea looking towards making the VA5 makeup more balanced.
- Support
- As nom. J947 ‡ edits 06:23, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:23, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:23, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Hi everyone, we're doing a really good job of participating and moving things along on this page. Up at the top though, we still have several open proposals just shy of a clear margin. Whether you're swinging by regularly or once in a while, please consider voting if you aren't completely ambivalent. It's not just about keeping things flowing either, but also a matter of fairness to your fellow participants. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 17:06, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- I've bumped this notice to the bottom just to tap the sign once more. I think this section is at a manageable pace with new proposals, but there are still many near the top waiting on a 4th or 5th vote to decide things. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 20:01, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
The 32 Scottish council areas in order of population are:
|
|---|
|
The terms "Central Lowlands" and "Southern Uplands" are historical/geographical terms that are rarely used in everyday conversations which can be seen by the pageviews in which the terms "Central Belt" and "Greater Glasgow" get more pageviews. However, I believe it makes sense to swap them with Fife as it also includes the city of Dunfermline which is somewhat close to being vital as the de facto capital of the Kingdom of Scotland, as well as the important but not vital towns of Kirkcaldy, Glenrothes and St Andrews (the location of the University of St Andrews which is at level 5). All Ceremonial counties of England are already listed at level 5 with five of them having lower populations than that of Fife (Northumberland, Herefordshire, Isle of Wight, Rutland and the City of London), so population shouldn't be an issue. Fife also gets more pageviews than two of the English ceremonial counties previously mentioned (Herefordshire and Rutland) and so that also shouldn't be an issue.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discussion
Another surprising omission. We have been having gaps in significant historical regions. East Prussia has more interwikis, but it seems to be more about the former province of Germany. That should better belong in History then? I think this article is the best one to include in Geography.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 10:07, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
- We list Prussia 4 and Kingdom of Prussia 5 but I think it's fine to be redundant here. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 12:28, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Northern most point of Africa - but only been designated in 2014 before which is was said to be another location? There is a monument the article is only a stub and only in 22 other languages, most of them are also stub, or few start class, There doesn't seem to be much there, there is not much to say about it. Not as significant as Africa's most southern point Cape Agulhas which is more significant to navigation as is sticks out more. Ras ben Sakka does not project that much out into the sea compared to the southern cape. Also for context - we do not list Africa's eastern or western most points Pointe des Almadies, or Ras Hafun. Also none of the four Extreme points of Asia are listed either.
- Support
- As nom. Carlwev 15:27, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm having trouble understanding why Ras ben Sakka and Cape Angela are separate articles. One is the cape and the other is the tip of the cape? But they show the same landscape and monuments? Anyway, I agree with the reasoning above that this is not vital. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 19:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 09:54, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- Solid rationale. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:11, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This is not to understate the impact that the 2007 Greensburg tornado had on the residents of Kiowa County, but it is a little odd that this is the only tornado listed in the entire Level 5 history section when it doesn't even rank among the 25 deadliest tornadoes in American history. It is notable in that it was the first tornado to be designated an EF5, but I think if we are going to include a tornado in this list--particularly in Contemporary section--then the 2011 Joplin tornado would be a better candidate given that it is currently the deadliest tornado of the 21st century and the second deadliest tornado of the contemporary (post WW2) period. As far as loss of life and financial damage inflicted, the 2011 Joplin tornado was more destructive than the 2007 Greensburg tornado by an order of magnitude. Or maybe the 1925 tri-state tornado or Daulatpur-Saturia tornado would be better candidates for elsewhere in Level 5, given that they were much deadlier than either Greensburg or Joplin. Bcbroughton (talk) 00:02, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- Recommend procedural close: The discussion to add the Greensburg tornado occurred just 3½ months ago pbp 00:17, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
One thing I've noticed is that we have omitted archaelogical cultures from the vital articles list, and many topics of Archaeology in general. For starters, I'll propose a couple of cultures that seem most important to a non-expert.
Add Bell Beaker culture 5
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A Western and Central European Bronze Age culture with a wide influence which shaped the continent for several centuries.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. We should have more of these. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:31, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Carlwev 10:53, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:57, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add Yamnaya culture 5
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An archaelogical culture related to the expansion of the Indoeuropean languages around Eurasia. One of the most important Neolithic cultures, and the focus of several lines of research.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:47, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:31, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Significant Copper and Bronze Age culture lasted seven centuries, spread over what is now several nations, Carlwev 10:59, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:57, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add Corded Ware culture 5 (Not OP)
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Another archaeological culture. Known for its cord-impressed pottery, early pastoralist economy, use of wheeled vehicles, and role in spreading Indo-European languages into Europe.
- Support
- As nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:31, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Carlwev 11:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 12:05, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:57, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add Andronovo culture 5 (Not OP)
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Associated with early Indo-Iranian migrations, known for its metallurgy, horse domestication, and the spread of chariot warfare and steppe traditions.
- Support
- As nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:31, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Carlwev 11:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)~
- Makkool (talk) 12:05, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:57, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
I propose we add some of the other regions of (ancient) Israel that we are currently missing. We already list Galilee 5 and Golan Heights 5 at least. These regions are important historically and are also the area where the Bible takes place.
The historical central region of the land of Israel.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:07, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- pbp 20:25, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 16:21, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
A region consisting of ten Hellenistic cities in the land of Israel, and was the center Hellenistic and Roman culture in the area.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discussion
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The mountaneous region of Levant, centered around the city of Jerusalem.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:07, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- pbp 20:24, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
- Carlwev 11:04, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Most famous of the ones proposed here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:12, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
A region of Transjordan, east of Judea and Samaria.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:07, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- With all the proposed additions of African provinces, regions will be over quota. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 16:44, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
- Discussion
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JpTheNotSoSuperior recently removed the article Electrification 5 from the contemporary history list, saying that it shouldn't be listed there. I agree; energy technology seems to be a better place.
- Remove
- Move to Technology
- As nom. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:46, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
- As the person who made the move. Of note, electrification was listed in both history and technology, so that's why I removed it from history. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 19:48, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
- pbp 20:24, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
- Restore to History
- Discussion
Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:46, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
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History is getting crowded, and months ago, a discussion showed sympathy towards removing almost every country's flag. This should cut about a third of the current list (28). Most of these have only existed for a few decades in their current versions, or their adoption is closely tied to events we currently list (the Spanish transition to democracy 5, the end of Apartheid, etc).
Flag of South Africa- Flag of Kenya
Flag of Bangladesh-
Flag of the Philippines 
Flag of South Korea- Flag of Thailand
- Flag of Vietnam
- Flag of Poland
Flag of Spain
- Support
- As nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:37, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support all Makkool (talk) 16:51, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Very few flags belong at this level. None of the above seem to have cultural significance outside their own countries. Trivia, really. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:14, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- J947 ‡ edits 22:30, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- The form of this joint nomination is a bit misleading. Each flag has a different set of considerations. The flags themselves may not in their current forms be long-tenured. However, each article is a bit of a History of the flag article. Thus the importance of the current version of the flag is not so relevant. If a VA5 person were to get married, we would not suddenly reasses that person's importance based on their current newfound relationship status. Vitality would continue to be assessed based on the history of that person. I would suggest splitting this nomination and stating the date of the original creation as well as its current form in the split nomination. If properly split, I might support some.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:21, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
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It seems worth bringing these up, as we don't have similar articles about other conflicts.
- American entry into World War I
- Austro-Hungarian entry into World War I
- French entry into World War I
- German entry into World War I
- Ottoman entry into World War I
- Russian entry into World War I
- Support
- As nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:37, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support removal, but I would also be willing to support pbp's swap if consensus goes that way. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:06, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support removal but also pbp's swap Makkool (talk) 16:51, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support swap. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support swap, after thinking about it a bit - yes, those are significant (vital) history of major countries segments in their own right, at this level. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:16, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Seems disengenuous to have American entry into World War I but not United States in World War I 5, Russian entry into World War I but not Russia in World War I 5. Suggest swap. pbp 01:04, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- I am a little bit confused what this swap is all about.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:10, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- I.e. Remove American entry into World War I, add United States in World War I, repeat with other countries. pbp 12:07, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Small from a world-historic perspective. 30,000 and 87,000 people, respectively.
- Support
- As nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:14, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support both Makkool (talk) 16:51, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Piling on - trivial at this level. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:37, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
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Small from a world-historic perspective. Temporarily embarrassed France. 1 dead.
- Support
- As nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:14, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 16:51, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:09, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
- EchoVanguardZ (talk) 17:46, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Short-lived Soviet during the Chinese Civil War. Part of the larger Chinese Soviet Republic
- Support
- As nom. Weak support for a swap with the CSR. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:29, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 16:51, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Add Chinese Soviet Republic regardless of whether we remove Jiangxi Soviet 5. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 17:14, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
Swap: Remove Shanghai International Settlement 5, Kiautschou Bay Leased Territory 5, Kwantung Leased Territory 5 and Leased Territory of Guangzhouwan, add Treaty port
[edit]All of these are former portions of other cities that are already listed at VA5. In comparison to other geographical features (particularly their parent cities), they have relatively few interwikis. These were rented out (at gunpoint) to foreign powers, in some cases not for very long. The concept of Treaty port is more important than any one treaty port. pbp 01:31, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support
- pbp 01:31, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- EchoVanguardZ (talk) 17:46, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 00:26, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
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Bioko is about 40x more populated than Príncipe but it is not listed. Both of them, along with São Tomé Island 5 and Annobón make up the broader Cameroon line.
- Support
- As nom. Sahaib (talk) 16:21, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
- EchoVanguardZ (talk) 05:45, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:06, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:48, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
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So, on paper, I kind of get why this is listed. It was a big part of that eras counter-culture. But it is not a topic that would be in a traditional encyclopedia and articles about pop-culture crazes are things we should not be listing here. Really, what does this article truly provide to a project trying to assemble the most important topics for an encyclopedia. More proof that The Beatles 3 were extremely popular? Something that that article covers extensively to begin with? I don't see it.
This article is something good for extended reading about the Beatles by Wikipedia standards, where space is infinite and anything can have an article given that it meets our guidelines. But the vital articles project only has a limited selection of articles, with V5 having 50,000. And across those 50,000 slots, we list the Beatles themselves, all four members (John Lennon 4, Ringo Starr 5, Paul McCartney 5, George Harrison 5), the albums Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band 4, Revolver (Beatles album) 5, The Beatles (album) 5, and Abbey Road 5, plus the individual songs I Want to Hold Your Hand 5, Hey Jude 5, Yesterday (song) 5 and A Day in the Life 5 and Lennon's solo work Imagine (song) 5. This is 15 articles dedicated to the Beatles, not counting Beatlemania. I'm not campaigning for the removal of any of these right now because they are all important but my point is: when we list all of this, do we seriously need to give another slot to the Beatles. And if we do, would you rather give that slot to something like Let It Be (album) or Here Comes the Sun, or an article that just reiterates a fact that all of the above articles make very clear: the Beatles were important and popular. The most important and popular music act of all time, yes, but that's still something that can be made very clear without giving the Beatles a 16th article. That's just overkill. Honestly, the amount of representation the Beatles have right now on its own could be labeled as overkill. But that's a story for a different time.
Also, we list Beatlemania under History. I don't know where else it would go, but it being here raises another question and way to look at things: can you think of something like a historical event, a treaty, a battle, a natural disaster, or anything like that which you would rather list over Beatlemania? There's a good chance that you can.
- Support
- As nom. λ NegativeMP1 19:41, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Unprecedented fan worship, showed that bands/musicians could be brands too and has inspired the commercialization and corporatization of pop music as we know it today. Cultural history is still history and I would go so far to say that Beatlemania is more significant than some of the treaties, battles, and natural disasters we already list. It's easy to discount the importance of cultural history because it doesn't feel as grand as a battle but we can directly point to large aspects of our society, culture, and economy that have changed because of Beatlemania in a way that we can't for some of these other events. Aurangzebra (talk) 15:28, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:17, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
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The Isthmus of Korea is barely a recognizable geographical feature, just a slightly narrower part of the Korean Peninsula. It's a 1-2 paragraph stub in every language, and doesn't even exist in Korean.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 19:39, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 15:19, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support Carlwev 15:51, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Definitely not vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 10:36, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
Diosso and Tafraout are towns, so I don't understand why they are listed on physical geography.
Diosso
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Remove
- As nom; I'm unsure if it should be listed with cities. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:47, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- support Carlwev 16:06, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Move
- Keep
- Discussion
Tafraout
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Remove
- As nom. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:47, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- support Carlwev 16:06, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Move
- Keep
- Discussion
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Casamance is a geographical region that includes 3 of the 14 administrative Regions of Senegal (Kolda region, Sédhiou region, Ziguinchor region). It is unique in that it is one of the few geographic regions that is not itself an administrative region (the others are much more obscure like Petite Côte). Whilst its main city Ziguinchor 5 is listed, the region itself should also be listed due to it being ethnically/culturally/historically different from the rest of the country as it is separated by the Gambia (see also Casamance conflict).
- Support
- As nominator. Sahaib (talk) 22:04, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Seems pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:11, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:49, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Sanmenxia is an administrative division, so I don't see why it is listed as physical geography. None of the other prefecture-level cities (second-level administrative divisions) of China are listed on the countries and regions subpage. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:32, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:32, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
There are two million people in this Prefecture, including 800,000 urban. For the United States, doesn't every county of 2 mill or more contain a VA5 city, or one adjacent? pbp 15:02, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Purplebackpack89: Good point. Which article should we list to represent the urban area? Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:07, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Purplebackpack89: The lack of an article about the urban area in question is regrettable, but this article does not belong on the physical geography list and keeping the misplaced entry does not serve any purpose. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:19, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
- @Lophotrochozoa That's like saying an article on Los Angeles County would be misplaced because LA County includes the sparsely-populated Antelope Valley and Angeles National Forest as well as the City of Los Angeles and the other 80-odd cities surrounding it. pbp 14:38, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
- If Los Angeles County were listed as physical geography, it would be misplaced since it isn't a physical feature, just like Sanmenxia isn't a physical feature. Did you miss that Sanmenxia is currently listed as physical geography? If you're desperate to compensate for the lack of an article about the urban area in the Hubin and Shanzhou districts, the right place to do so would be cities.
- @Purplebackpack89: If no one gives a reason to keep it listed on physical geography, I'm going to remove it and start a separate nomination about listing it on cities. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 23:04, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- If Los Angeles County were listed as physical geography, it would be misplaced since it isn't a physical feature, just like Sanmenxia isn't a physical feature. Did you miss that Sanmenxia is currently listed as physical geography? If you're desperate to compensate for the lack of an article about the urban area in the Hubin and Shanzhou districts, the right place to do so would be cities.
- @Lophotrochozoa That's like saying an article on Los Angeles County would be misplaced because LA County includes the sparsely-populated Antelope Valley and Angeles National Forest as well as the City of Los Angeles and the other 80-odd cities surrounding it. pbp 14:38, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Kingdom of Strathclyde gets more pageviews and has more language links. Not sure why Scotland in the Middle Ages is even listed, since England in the Middle Ages is not listed.
- Support
- As nominator. Sahaib (talk) 12:58, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Weak support. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 17:23, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
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Cities are a very important topic across history, and City 3 is a Level 2 vital article. When we list the histories of several individual cities, I think we have room to list the history of cities as a whole. Rated Top-Importance by WikiProject History.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:18, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:24, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. --EleniXDD※Talk 08:28, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 00:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Major city in Kenya, which is currently underrepresented with only 4 cities and over 50 million in poopulation.
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 22:41, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:51, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:49, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Not even a general article on animation in the silent era, but even narrower in focus. This covers a time before animation became widely popularized, leaving a very niche topic.
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 16:41, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
- Too narrow a topic to warrant level 5 indeed. PrimalMustelid (talk) 17:15, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
- Support Carlwev 18:25, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
- Moderate support; while much of animation innovation apparently happened in the US, this era is covered likely well enough by the 1910s & 1920s sections of History of animation 5, is overshadowed by Golden age of American animation 5, and is from an overall film history perspective less suitable an era to include than German expressionist cinema which we don't list.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:24, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
- I could see it making Level 6 if that ever gets created, but it doesn't quite reach VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:05, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Iostn (talk) 16:41, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
A UNESCO WHS, part of Jeju Volcanic Island and Lava Tubes. Considered a sacred mountain to Jeju and Korean people. Major tourist attraction. Add to Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Physical#Mountain peaks. Article has 43 language versions and more views than Mount Asama, Mount Hotakadake, and Mount Kita, for starters. More language editions than some of those pages too. More views than other pages like Avachinsky, Ismoil Somoni Peak, Klyuchevskaya Sopka, Koryaksky, Sahand, Peak Pobeda (Sakha), and more.
- Support
- As nominator seefooddiet (talk) 00:45, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:57, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
A brief war with high casualty estimates that ended the Ayutthaya Kingdom 4.
- Support
- As nominator. Sahaib (talk) 18:46, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
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Iceland is one of the most geologically active places on Earth, but we don't list any Icelandic volcanoes - I'd argue this is the most vital, note its Europe-wide reputation as the "Gateway to Hell", everything listed under the pop culture section and also "Cumulatively, the volcano has produced one of the largest volumes of lava of any in the world in the last millennium, around 8 km3 (1.9 cu mi)."
- Support
- As nom Iostn (talk) 22:28, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
- Surprising omission. Physical Geography has room with quota at 1886/1900.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:11, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
- Should be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:46, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:55, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
San Francisco Peninsula 5 is already covered by San Francisco Bay Area 5 and San Francisco Bay 5. Its geography makes it stand out on maps, but I think this is over coverage, as it's one part of a metropolitan area which is already covered (also by San Francisco 4 and Silicon Valley 4) and which has a strong regional identity.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 19:47, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:55, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
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Republic of Artsakh was dissolved in 2023. It is covered by Nagorno-Karabakh 4 and Nagorno-Karabakh conflict 5. It was also not large, as its population was listed at 145,053 in 2015.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 19:52, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 18:15, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Short-lived breakaway state, it can be covered by the conflict article. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:47, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:50, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
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This is a form of municipality in South Africa. These municipalities are within a province like any other municipality The article is mostly a short list, and I'm not seeing why this needs special coverage. It also doesn't have an article on any of the non-English languages of South Africa.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 20:01, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing why we should list this. The slot could be better used to represent more countries. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:26, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Didn't we previously decide to remove this kind of lists? Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:05, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:50, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
The coverage in Africa on Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Countries seems random. Why do a few countries (Egypt, Ethiopia, Nigeria, South Africa, Somalia) get coverage of all their subdivisions while others get almost nothing or nothing? If it's supposed to be based on population, it's not proportional. For example, Tanzania (which gets none) is more populous than South Africa (which gets 9) and over three times as populous as Somalia (which gets 5/6). If it's based on something else, we should decide on what that is, to avoid systemic bias.
Here is a table of the contents of "Regions and country subdivisions". This is just for reference, I'm not saying coverage should necessarily be based directly on population or area.
| Continent | Entries | % Entries | % Population | % Area |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Africa | 104 | 10.0% | 17.6% | 20.3% |
| Antarctica | 11 | 1.1% | 0.0% | 9.5% |
| Asia | 343 | 33.0% | 59.4% | 21.2% |
| Europe/Russia | 330 | 31.7% | 9.4% | 15.4% |
| North America | 149 | 14.3% | 7.5% | 16.2% |
| Oceania | 25 | 2.4% | 0.6% | 5.7% |
| South America | 78 | 7.5% | 5.5% | 11.9% |
| World | 1040 | 100% | 100% | 100% |
EchoVanguardZ (talk) 20:30, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- A reasonable explanation is that many political regions of Africa are recently created, while many in Europe go back farther in time. Additionally, Europe used to have a higher proportion of the word population historically before the industrial revolution compared to today. This does not mean it should be the same as Asia proportionally, but food for thought. -1ctinus📝🗨 13:17, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
Really confused how this hasn't been nominated yet when every other city has double digit interwikis.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
- I don't think a city should be removed merely for having the least interwikis. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 19:11, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Every other city has at least fifty interwikis. Bluevestman (talk) 23:30, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
- Most do, but no, not all other VA5 cities have 50 interwikis. Still, I don't think that's a good reason to remove a city. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 00:44, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Considering how important they are, I think cities should have a much higher amount of interwikis than usual. Bluevestman (talk) 18:18, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Most do, but no, not all other VA5 cities have 50 interwikis. Still, I don't think that's a good reason to remove a city. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 00:44, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Inspired by this discussion. (Not sure if Burroughs should be demoted, which is why I'm not voting on it. He is definitely less vital than Ginsberg and Kerouac though.) Significant American literary movement, probably the first post-WWII counterculture movement, led to the Hippie 5 movement.
- Support
- Bluevestman (talk) 20:15, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
- J947 ‡ edits 22:07, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
- Support swap with Beatnik 5 which is currently listed under "subcultures" on the over-quota social sciences page as it did not persist worldwide as a visible subculture (although Beat Generation may belong under Arts rather than History) Iostn (talk) 18:02, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
- Add to Arts. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 18:22, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Will support a swap for Beatnik and placing it under Arts. --Bluevestman (talk) 18:42, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
Is it too late to move this discussion to Society? Lophotrochozoa (talk) 20:51, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
Move the 18 articles under "Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Physical sciences/Earth science#Paleogeography" to "Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Physical"
[edit]We have the section for paleogeography under Earth sciences. We should fix this. I think it impacts a level 4 article or two, I'll boldly move those. We include the other "continents" in geography, I don't know why this would be different.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 17:32, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- I've always seen the history of the Earth, including paleogeography, as a topic of Earth science. On the other hand I don't have a clear understanding of how physical geography differs from earth science. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:31, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 17:32, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Given above comments that Countries/Regions and country subdivisions is under quota, I thought I'd raise an obvious current omission: Oecusse. This is a geographically distinct and politically autonomous municipality of Timor-Leste 4. Looking over the current list it appears that autonomous areas seem to make the list, even for countries where not all first-level divisions are listed, so Oecusse fits that criteria.
- Support
- as nom. CMD (talk) 12:22, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
- Seems important enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 10:34, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:52, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss]
Article has 20+ interwikis. Very large scale federal operation linked to the downfall of several progressive and left-wing groups. Although the program was officially terminated in the 1970s, similar mass surveillance tactics have since been used by the FBI. I believe this article is vital enough for that reason.
- Support
- As nom. 🌙Eclipse (she/they/all neos • talk • edits) 16:29, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:14, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Huế was moved to Huế (provincial city) and Thừa Thiên Huế province was moved to Huế at the start of the year because the Thừa Thiên Huế province became Vietnam's newest municipality, named Huế in January 2025. The former provincial city was dissolved according to the article.
- Support
- As nom. Sahaib (talk) 08:33, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:52, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:50, 7 June 2025 (UTC)`
- J947 ‡ edits 23:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Two deadly school shootings that impacted debates on gun safety.
- Support
- Oppose
- I'm sorry if I sound insensitive here but gun debates in the United States have always been perennial since Columbine if not prior. Neither of these two significantly caused them any more debates than many other shootings and I doubt their long term impacts. They are tragic losses of life but they did not impact anything long term on a global scale unlike Columbine or Sandy Hook which are the two prime examples of mass shootings in the United States. After the first few months of the initial shock, there's nothing that separates these from countless other shootings in the United States. I honestly even doubt the vitality of the 2017 Las Vegas shooting or the Orlando nightclub shooting because, while they were very deadly attacks, neither are remembered very well and did not echo through the entire country like Columbine or Sandy Hook did. Even though one of them was the deadliest in the country's history. λ NegativeMP1 01:36, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
- Sadly agree with NegativeMP1 pbp 13:25, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, the two opposes above are right. These two shootings aren't as famous as Pulse, which is itself up for removal right now. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- I thought Parkland was more famous than Pulse. It seemed to me that the Parkland shooting inspired more of a movement for gun control, and then there were political celebrities spreading conspiracy theories about it. It also has higher pageviews. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 18:54, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Unfortunately opposing both. I feel like these shootings didn't radicalize the gun control scene compared to Columbine or Sandy Hook (although I can see the case being made for Parkland, which I also believe is now arguably more famous than Pulse). JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 22:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
These shootings are not very vital compared to other shootings like Columbine or Sandy Hook.
- Support
- Interstellarity (talk) 11:55, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
- pbp 13:24, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:50, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
- I was in Mixed before, supporting Pulse but opposing Las Vegas, but I decided to move to full support. I think an event should have some long-lasting impact other than a death count or have a lot of lasting cultural significance, like the Boston Marathon bombing (which we should list) or the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting 5, to be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Mixed
- Opposing Vegas, unfortunately supporting Pulse. Vegas may not have had the cultural impact as a shooting like Columbine or Sandy Hook or even Virginia Tech (and it arguably was forgotten), but it was the deadliest shooting in U.S. history. Pulse on the other hand was arguably only notable for the single(!) year it had the highest death count (or maybe also that it was an attack on a gay nightclub). JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 22:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
A cinder cone volcano that is home to a fairly substantial land art project. It is essentially an art installation at this point.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:49, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I'd rather have James Turrell be listed instead of just one 'work' of his, he only began this project in 2019. SameOldSameOldSameOld (talk) SameOldSameOldSameOld (talk) 17:41, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
Comment: I nominated him on people yesterday at the same time that I nominated this work. I tend to favor works over people though, and this is a substantial piece in terms of size, notability, and expense. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 17:46, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:49, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
A terrorist attack led by Shoko Asahara 5. The lead states that "The attack remains the deadliest terrorist incident in Japan as defined by modern standards", and the article for the Heisei era lists it as one of the "key events". The incident also led to many law changes in Japan, including the removal of trash cans from most major train stations.
- Support
- As nom. SameOldSameOldSameOld (talk) SameOldSameOldSameOld (talk) 13:07, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
- Rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Japan. Seems vital enough to include. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:04, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:29, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:53, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Famous and reasonably unique for that part of the world. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:04, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
A previous thread couldn't get enough votes either for or against adding Star (heraldry), but I closed it because two other articles did get enough votes. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 21:57, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
- Support
- TonyTheTiger was the original nominator.
- Zar2gar1 voted support in the original thread.
- Lophotrochozoa voted support in the original thread.
- Oppose
- J947 voted oppose in the original thread.
- Just 7 interwikis, niche concept. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:05, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discussion
Lophotrochozoa (talk) 21:57, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Lophotrochozoa: If you are going to make these split sections, can you please include the nominator's rationale and the rationales next to each vote? Listing the article without any context makes it difficult to come to a decision. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:37, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Unless we're trying to be Eurocentric, 19 Swiss cantons out of 1041 country subdivisions is far too high. I propose the following removals
This is 6 of the 9 smallest remaining cantons by population, except for Canton of Schwyz 5 (origin of the name Switzerland), Canton of Neuchâtel 5 (historically the only monarchy within Switzerland), and Grisons 5 (largest by area and trilingual).
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 01:20, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Support per nom. I don't think we need Schwyz for etymology either. J947 ‡ edits 02:15, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- With all the proposed additions of African provinces/regions/states, the relevant subpage is likely to become far over quota. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 22:47, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Switzerland does not need this many cantons at VA5. I would prefer to use these slots to add some geographic diversity. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:41, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
I closed this dscussion bu then I remembered that we're supposed to wait until 14 days after the proposal was made. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:24, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
Keep in mind that England's VA5 subdivisions average 1 million population, Belgium - 1 million, Greece - 1.3 million, the Netherlands - 1.4 million, Poland - 2.4 million, etc. I wanted to increase representation of Africa. Some countries will have more representation than others merely because their administrative divisions are smaller. I can't think of any way to resolve that bias. A number of these, therefore, may be unlikely to pass.
There are 26 provinces, although Kinshasa 4 is already listed as a city. This leaves an average of 4.2 million per province.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:40, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Most of these subdivisions were only created in 2015 – so what can we write about them? I'm not opposed to the additions, but I think a case-by-case analysis would be better. J947 ‡ edits 22:05, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
Add 26 of the 31 Regions of Tanzania
[edit]I'm proposing all regions except Dar es Salaam Region (covered by Dar es Salaam 4, and the four that make up Zanzibar 4 (which are also the 4 least populous). Average population for these would be about 2.3 million. If you oppose this, then do you have an idea of how to include Tanzania in this section? Including some of the regions?
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
These are by-and-large healthy articles, which are nice, but I simply don't think there's space for all 26. Consider proposing the best 12–15. We only list 17 German and 16 Spanish regions, and it looks like they might be shrunk further as we look to fill other areas of the world. J947 ‡ edits 22:10, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Well, we list all the states of Germany and all the autonomous communities of Spain, so that covers everything for those countries. But I'll consider nominating a smaller number instead. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 21:55, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
Add the four Regions of Uganda
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This would mean adding Central Region, Uganda 5, Western Region, Uganda 5, Eastern Region, Uganda 5, and Northern Region, Uganda 5. Their average population is 12 million.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:38, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 21:33, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Weak support. I'm realising that it probably makes more sense to cover African ethnic groups / kingdoms rather than regions. For Uganda that involves listing the likes of Lugbara people, Acholi people, Ankole, Busoga, Teso people, and Buganda. Judging by the respective size of their articles, ethnic groups are the important subdivision of Uganda – not geographical categorisations that are ultimately based off ethnic groups. But it's only four articles for a country of 50 million, so why not. J947 ‡ edits 22:18, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add all 18 States of Sudan
[edit]Average population is about 2.8 million. If you oppose this, should we list former provinces? For a country of 45 million people, we list only Darfur 5.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:43, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Partial: support add for Kordofan (as opposed to any specific Kordofan state, the article describes Kordofan as being a historically defined region), Khartoum State, Gezira State, Kassala State, White Nile State, al Qadarif, and Northern State (Sudan). (all states with a population above 2 million, or a wide area) ALittleClass (talk) 18:39, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add 10 of the the 12 Regions of Morocco
[edit]This is all regions of Morocco except the two southernmost that are part of Western Sahara 4. Their average population is 3.6 million.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:43, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add all 10 Regions of Cameroon
[edit]Average population: 3 million.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:44, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add the 7 Regions of Niger
[edit]Average population: 3 million.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:44, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- ALittleClass (talk) 04:30, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add the 3 former provinces of South Sudan
[edit]That is Bahr el Ghazal (region of South Sudan), Equatoria, and Greater Upper Nile. Average population: 4 million.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:45, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- ALittleClass (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Other countries
[edit]I couldn't find any reasonable way to balance Algeria, Angola, or any smaller countries. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
Add 6 Regions of Thailand
[edit]- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:49, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 01:10, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Thailand 3 is underrepresented at VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:38, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add 8 regions of Vietnam
[edit]- Northwest (Vietnam)
- Northeast (Vietnam)
- Red River Delta 5
- North Central Coast
- Central Highlands (Vietnam)
- South Central Coast
- Southeast (Vietnam)
- Mekong Delta 5
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 02:49, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 01:10, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
The drainage basin of the Amazon River 3 includes several great rivers, but the only tributaries we list are Rio Negro (Amazon) 4, Madeira River 4, Apurímac River 5, Casiquiare canal 5 and (counting generously) Tocantins River 4.
Add Marañón River
[edit]The Marañón River has an average discharge of over 16 000 m3/s, it is over 1 700 kilometers long (I don't know if this counts from the source of the Nupe River of from the confluence of the Nupe and Lauricocha rivers, but it doesn't make much difference), and its drainage basin is about 360 000 km2/s. Its confluence with the Ucayali River defines the beginning of the Amazon River.
- Support
- As nominator. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- This river also apparently has legal importance, according to the article. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:46, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
Add Ucayali River
[edit]The Ucayali River has an average discharge of over 13 000 m3/s, it is over 1 400 kilometers long (counting from the confluence of the Tambo and Urubamba rivers), and its drainage basin is about 350 000 km2/s. Its confluence with the Marañón River defines the beginning of the Amazon River. We already list its headwater Apurímac River 5.
- Support
- As nominator. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Seems pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:47, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
Add Japurá River
[edit]The Japurá River has an average discharge of over 18 000 m3/s, it is over 2 000 kilometers long, and its drainage basin is over 270 000 km2/s.
- Support
- As nominator. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
The Tapajós River has an average discharge of about 13 000 m3/s, it is over 800 kilometers long (counting from the confluence of the Juruena and Teles Pires rivers), and its drainage basin is nearly 500 000 km2/s.
- Support
- As nominator. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
Add Purus River
[edit]The Purus River has an average discharge of about 11 000 m3/s, it is over 3 300 kilometers long, and its drainage basin is nearly 370 000 km2/s.
- Support
- As nominator. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
Add Xingu River
[edit]The Xingu River has an average discharge of about 10 000 m3/s, it is over 1 600 kilometers long, and its drainage basin is over 500 000 km2/s.
- Support
- As nominator. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
Discussion
[edit]A major incident in the histories of both India and Sweden, which caused a regime change in India and is still remembered today. Rated High-Importance by the WikiProjects for India, Sweden, Crime, and Politics.
- Support
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
The upcoming removal of the Pulse nightclub shooting should make room to add this. One of the most famous terrorist attacks of the 2010s, the bombing injured over 200 people. There were widespread reactions internationally and the incident caused a global improvement of security at sporting events. It is also still widely remembered and discussed by Americans today, it still gets massive amounts of pageviews 12 years later, and it has an impressive 56 interwikis. The massive and enduring impact of this tragic event makes it warrant a slot at VA5.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:24, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Quite famous. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 18:55, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Should be added, the Boston Marathon itself could probably be added too. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 22:11, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Svalbard and Jan Mayen is purely a statistical area, composed of Svalbard 4, and the uninhabited Jan Mayen 5. I don't think the page is vital on any level.
- Support
- As nominator. EchoVanguardZ (talk) 18:58, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- The key vital article is Svalbard 4, this wider grouping is not vital. CMD (talk) 19:04, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- There is no reason to have this on the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:44, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. J947 ‡ edits 23:40, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Should be on the same level as History of the Americas.
- Support
- Interstellarity (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, but like with History of the Americas 5, I'd prefer to keep it at VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:09, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Support. Eurasia is a less... European Supremicist term then Europe. I think it is higher priority then Europe overall. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 18:44, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We have similarly populous and strategic European islands. 77 interwikis. Continually contested between Denmark, Sweden and Lubeck. pbp 21:34, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Support
- pbp 21:34, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Per nom. J947 ‡ edits 21:53, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 23:03, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Seems important enough to warrant listing. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:05, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
I was surprised to see no Chinese parks listed at Level 4, so I looked up the most important park from China that I could find, Jiuzhaigou, and was going to make a nomination to promote it until I found it wasn't even Level 5. In fact, there's only 1 listed for China in Level 5: Huanglong Scenic and Historic Interest Area. Considering the US can have 34 parks (more than the entirety of Asia, currently), I think there can be a few more in the area.
Add Wulingyuan
[edit]A UNESCO World Heritage Site, said to have 4 million attendants in 2019. (source) 48 interwikis.
- Support
- As nom. 04:38, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 12:54, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
Add Jiuzhaigou
[edit]50 interwikis and another UNESCO World Heritage Site, got over a million tourists in a year just in 2002, probably higher today.
- Support
- Oppose
- Neutral
In case I didn't mention, India is also pretty underrepresented with just 2 parks currently. This was the first ever national park of India, 32 interwikis.
- Support
- Oppose
- Neutral
Discussion
[edit]Parks, preserves, and World Heritage Sites currently has 118 articles. Of those, over a third (43) are North American, so that is probably an overrepresentation. I am not sure how representation is being calculated for the above proposals, but to get some idea, there are 231 natural UNESCO World Heritage sites (plus 40 mixed, so perhaps 271). Of those, the United States has 12(+1), Canada has 11(+1), Mexico has 6(+2), Costa Rica has 3, Panama has 3, Cuba has 2, Belize has 1, Dominica has 1, Honduras has 1, Saint Lucia has 1, Guatemala has 0(+1), and Jamaica has 0(+1). This is 41(+6), or just under 18%. While we wouldn't expect to show exactly the same ratio, that's a pretty significant discrepancy. CMD (talk) 07:15, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
I just removed Sanmenxia from the physical geography subpage because it is an administrative subdivision, not a feature of physical geography. In the previous discussion Purplebackpack89 wanted to keep it because Sanmenxia contains an urban area. Thus we should have a separate discussion about listing it on cities. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:28, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
- Support
- Purplebackpack89's support assumed.
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:55, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- The urban area in question constitutes less than half of Sanmenxia's population and it is not entirely in Sanmenxia. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:28, 26 May 2025 (UTC)
- Discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article has 40+ interwikis. I was surprised that this wasn't a vital article, as it was one of the most viewed charity events in history (and arguably among the most controversial). Although it raised awareness of the famine happening at the time (1983–1985 famine in Ethiopia 5), many concerns of where the money was actually going to have begun to arise since its TV airing in 1985. I believe this article is vital enough for that reason.
- Support
- As nom. 🌙Eclipse (she/they/all neos • talk • edits) 13:03, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Seems like it has had enough of a lasting impact to list. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:23, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- "40% of the world population" tuned in. Interdisciplinary importance as well. ALittleClass (talk) 02:35, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Idiosincrático (talk) 07:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
If this is notable, individual Olympic Games are too. They typically have about 30 more interwikis than Live Aid does, and last a lot longer than the length of a concert. pbp 14:18, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- I don't think we need every Olympics. Individual ones I could see being vital, but listing all of them is unsustainable. And before you bring up politicians, there is a reason we don't list every U.S. President. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:59, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- @QuicoleJR There's only 50,000 slots so it IS fair to compare vitality of disparate topics pbp 21:39, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Purplebackpack89: I didn't say that you couldn't. I was saying that I don't think we should list every Olympic Games, and remembering your previous argument about G7 leaders, I specified that I don't think we need to list every single one of them either (and we already don't list Truss or Garfield). QuicoleJR (talk) 22:02, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- @QuicoleJR Let's circle back....Do you believe Live Aid to be more notable than, say, the 1984 Olympics, and, if so, why? pbp 22:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Again, I don't believe that every Olympic Games should be listed just because it happened and the Olympics are important. Only Olympics with special important that makes them vital even among Olympic Games should be listed, the rest can be covered by the Olympics themselves because being the Olympics makes up the entirety of their claim to importance. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:31, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- @QuicoleJR Let's circle back....Do you believe Live Aid to be more notable than, say, the 1984 Olympics, and, if so, why? pbp 22:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Purplebackpack89: I didn't say that you couldn't. I was saying that I don't think we should list every Olympic Games, and remembering your previous argument about G7 leaders, I specified that I don't think we need to list every single one of them either (and we already don't list Truss or Garfield). QuicoleJR (talk) 22:02, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- @QuicoleJR There's only 50,000 slots so it IS fair to compare vitality of disparate topics pbp 21:39, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- There have been 54 Olympic games, while there have only been 2 live-aid style concerts. I believe the specific Olympics events are examples of events that are very important while they are happen, but their fame and recognition fade quite quickly, simply because of how many there are. As an example, Freddie Mercury's performance at Live Aid has had more cultural staying power than almost all specific Olympic performances. (I do believe it's fine to list some of the specific Olympic events, and we currently have a proposal to add one that's tracking to pass) ALittleClass (talk) 02:33, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
We include County 5, District 5, Municipality 5, Province 5, I think we can expand this a bit more. These would be inclusions under "Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Countries" in "Countries: General" and "Administrative division."
A concept where the Modifiable areal unit problem 5 is exploited to impact the results of an election. Boundaries are drawn in such a way that the outcome is impacted.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Support add in "Politics and economics" section. ALittleClass (talk) 09:35, 1 June 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 22:47, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
- Place on politics if we increase the quota. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 20:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- This is not geography. While obviously lines in the ground are drawn, gerrymandering is about demography. It is about manipulating people, not land. CMD (talk) 05:02, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- I'm a geographer. Most of what we include isn't geography, it's Toponymy. Gerrymandering is taught about in geography classes, we don't generally have students memorize place names. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 22:55, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
- I don't follow, what do place names have to do with Gerrymandering? Modern US districts don't even get names. CMD (talk) 01:49, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- My point is that we teach Gerrymandering in geography classes, we don't spend much time on names of cities and such. The vital articles emphasizes names of cities and places over higher order concepts that underly these. Gerrymandering is definitely a topic brought up when discussing American geography. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 06:08, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- I don't follow, what do place names have to do with Gerrymandering? Modern US districts don't even get names. CMD (talk) 01:49, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- I'm a geographer. Most of what we include isn't geography, it's Toponymy. Gerrymandering is taught about in geography classes, we don't generally have students memorize place names. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 22:55, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Swap with modifiable area unit problem pbp 22:55, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- MAUP is an important concept in spatial analysis and statistics. Gerrymandering is one instance where political people have used the MAUP to their advantage. Would prefer MAUP to Gerrymandering, by far. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 06:36, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
- Gerrymandering has existed since before the modifiable unit problem was defined... pbp 21:31, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
- ...The MAUP has implications outside elections and human geography. It is a problem that comes up whenever you're sampling things, and it would still be an issue if we were drawing polygons on Mars to define the average temperature. Also, MAUP is in Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Mathematics along with Ecological fallacy 5, this is History and Geography. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:42, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- ...The MAUP has implications outside elections and human geography. It is a problem that comes up whenever you're sampling things, and it would still be an issue if we were drawing polygons on Mars to define the average temperature. Also, MAUP is in Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Mathematics along with Ecological fallacy
- Gerrymandering has existed since before the modifiable unit problem was defined... pbp 21:31, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
From the lede: "An electoral (congressional, legislative, etc.) district, sometimes called a constituency, riding, or ward, is a geographical portion of a political unit, such as a country, state or province, city, or administrative region, created to provide the voters therein with representation in a legislature or other polity."
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Sure pbp 22:55, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Important to both History and Geography. CMD (talk) 05:04, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 22:47, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
From the lede: "Congressional districts, also known as electoral districts in other nations, are divisions of a larger administrative region that represent the population of a region in the larger congressional body. Countries with congressional districts include the United States, the Philippines, and Japan."
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Entirely redundant concept to electoral district. CMD (talk) 05:04, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- Per CMD. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 19:36, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
- This. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:06, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
From the lede: "A canton is a type of administrative division of a country."
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- V5 term. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:18, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Not a fan of adding what for now is simply a de facto disambiguation page. Bluevestman (talk) 05:01, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
- What would be the eventual end goal here, listing every administrative division that happens to have gotten a different English name separately? CMD (talk) 05:05, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- From a data perspective, these are pretty important topics, just on the back end. We have a section titled "Urban studies and planning" that is a bit thin at 55 articles. We list thousands of place names (1984 cities alone), a type of administrative division used in several countries is at least as important as the 145 cities we include for the United States alone. Administrative divisions have different characteristics, they aren't all 1 to 1 relationships with their English equivalent. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 22:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
- But they aren't 1:1 with administrative divisions in other countries with the same names either. CMD (talk) 01:50, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- You're right, same can be said for County 5, State (polity) 3, and Province 5, though. We have articles like Cantons of Ecuador. Cantons of Switzerland, and Cantons of Togo that could be added. We include U.S. state 5 and County (United States) 5, and I don't think this is likely to be challenged, which is likely western bias. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 01:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- State (polity) is about the broad political concept, not about a specific level of administrative division. I am not sold on the inclusion of County or Province either, hence my question about what the eventual end goal is. Administrative division 5 is the likely vital article for this particular niche, the others seem variations on it that are little more than dictionary definitions and example lists. Various country-specific articles are a separate if related topic. CMD (talk) 02:49, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Our entire list is generally upside down when it comes to geography. Administrative division being at level 5 when there are specific U.S. states at level 4 is a tragedy. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:00, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Less of a tragedy than the state of the Administrative division article mind. CMD (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Geography articles in general are a tragedy, I won't argue with that. I started editing Wikipedia to try and help with that, and the state of an article is not consequential to how vital a concept it is, if a vital article is low quality that is a reason to bring attention to fixing it. That said, from a professional standpoint, from the top down the organization is pretty ignorant of what geography is, and has a western bias baked in. The use of Continent 3 to organize the regions is like using race to organize people, a made up concept that no one agrees on. The idea that Europe is a continent (in the system we are using) but India isn't is evidence of how terrible a concept the continents are. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 04:01, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- You don't have to tell me, I've been trying to find better ways to organise topics geographically for years (to mixed success). However, that is why it's important to think about the wider organisation here. We know we have State (polity)s, and we know they are divided up administratively in various ways. Regarding concepts, what is vital for understanding? I would suggest that picking particular English names does not help understanding. Articles that tackle function, such as Federated state (which includes polities named "province" "canton", etc.), would be better candidates. CMD (talk) 04:15, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- I would argue that Federated state not being included at level 3 is a tragedy, but Canton should be at least at level 5. I've been trying to organize geography topics for a year now, but because I can't skip levels, any one particular move being blocked can make an entire reorganization impossible, leaving us with a highly entrenched ignorant and borderline western supremacist organization as the default. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 04:32, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- You don't have to tell me, I've been trying to find better ways to organise topics geographically for years (to mixed success). However, that is why it's important to think about the wider organisation here. We know we have State (polity)s, and we know they are divided up administratively in various ways. Regarding concepts, what is vital for understanding? I would suggest that picking particular English names does not help understanding. Articles that tackle function, such as Federated state (which includes polities named "province" "canton", etc.), would be better candidates. CMD (talk) 04:15, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Geography articles in general are a tragedy, I won't argue with that. I started editing Wikipedia to try and help with that, and the state of an article is not consequential to how vital a concept it is, if a vital article is low quality that is a reason to bring attention to fixing it. That said, from a professional standpoint, from the top down the organization is pretty ignorant of what geography is, and has a western bias baked in. The use of Continent
- Less of a tragedy than the state of the Administrative division article mind. CMD (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Our entire list is generally upside down when it comes to geography. Administrative division being at level 5 when there are specific U.S. states at level 4 is a tragedy. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:00, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- State (polity) is about the broad political concept, not about a specific level of administrative division. I am not sold on the inclusion of County or Province either, hence my question about what the eventual end goal is. Administrative division
- You're right, same can be said for County
- You've got it backwards. All those cities we list are not place names, they are places. This proposal is for a place name. J947 ‡ edits 02:44, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- You're wrong. Place name on Websters dictionary is: the name of a geographic locality. Place name origins goes into a bit of detail on place names, but specifically is talking about the names of cities and geographic features. Toponymy is "the study of toponyms (proper names of places, also known as place names and geographic names), including their origins, meanings, usage, and types. Toponym is the general term for a proper name of any geographical feature, and full scope of the term also includes proper names of all cosmographical features." Geography isn't generally about lists of place names. Administrative divisions like canton are geographic concepts, specific place names, like the name of a city or sovereign state, are geographic trivia. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:00, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not meaning to challenge the scope of academic geography. Apart from a few areas which focus on academic geographic terminology, the Geography division of VA might better be named World: since place articles discuss the crossdisciplinary importance of the places, not toponymy. The articles Malawi and Rawalpindi are not focussed on those names; they are focussed on the historical, political, and cultural importance of the respective places. I resent you calling them "place names" since the articles quite clearly aren't about the names. On the other hand, Canton discusses the name of an administrative division in several countries. What I mean by calling it a "place name" is the likes of Una-Sana Canton and Moravia (canton). J947 ‡ edits 06:31, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Geography as a discipline is a sea saw tipped between Nomothetic and idiographic and , there are large movements in geography that advocate a focus on case studies to describe the uniqueness of specific places, and there are large movements to focus on generalized widely applicable theories. Unfortunately, the list here pushes hard towards the idiographic, and we are missing a lot of the high level generalized concepts that are within the nomothetic approaches. It's fair to state the articles are more then pure toponomy, but the list really seems like an effort to collect as many place names as possible. Place names, cities, towns, and countries are dust in the wind, concepts like city, town, and country are a bit more permanent. Concepts like Canton, Sovereign state 4, and other concepts should probably be higher then individual countries and cities. At the very least, they should be included. Furthermore, at the highest level we use really poor methods for our groupings, as stated above. Continents are the worst way to do regions in my opinion, and Europe is as much a "continent" (in the geologic sense) as Florida. If we want to get cultural, the only reason Europe is a continent and not India, the Middle East, and North/South/East/West/Central Africa is because Europeans have declared their culture to be so important that it warrants a "continent." Would much prefer we organize the higher levels around concepts, rather then some elementary school level attempt at drafting regions. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 08:09, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- I agree with your observations about academic geography and I am well aware of its difficult place as (in many respects) both a science and a humanity. What I'm trying to express, albeit hamfistedly, is that academic geography is significantly different to the sum of encyclopaedic knowledge of the world. It is significantly easier to write neutral, tertiary information about the idiographic than the nomothetic, and readers generally some seeking the former. The VA history list focusses less on theories and concepts than it does events, because that reflects the nature of a broad database of knowledge. On the continent point, there is a significant English, Eurocentric bias to this list – and if we are to change that fact, there are much easier ways to do it than change the continent categorisation, since that's a feature of how the encyclopaedia divides up the world rather than how VA does it. One final observation: a canton is just another name for a subdivision that will sooner or later be lost to history. For that reason, I don't think it's a great choice for an encyclopaedia to prioritise. J947 ‡ edits 01:53, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
- I had a high level proposal a bit ago that I'm reworking now. Part of it passed but didn't have room, and then got a rush of opposition before the removals passed, so I'm thinking about how to repackage. Essentially, geography at a high level is broken several different ways, including branches, traditions, themes, etc. I think that we could use human, physical, and technical geography at level 2 or 3, and then divide up human geography by region (not continent). That is how the geography page is organized, as well as categories and such. Physical geography isn't that much of an issue though. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 06:35, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
- I agree with your observations about academic geography and I am well aware of its difficult place as (in many respects) both a science and a humanity. What I'm trying to express, albeit hamfistedly, is that academic geography is significantly different to the sum of encyclopaedic knowledge of the world. It is significantly easier to write neutral, tertiary information about the idiographic than the nomothetic, and readers generally some seeking the former. The VA history list focusses less on theories and concepts than it does events, because that reflects the nature of a broad database of knowledge. On the continent point, there is a significant English, Eurocentric bias to this list – and if we are to change that fact, there are much easier ways to do it than change the continent categorisation, since that's a feature of how the encyclopaedia divides up the world rather than how VA does it. One final observation: a canton is just another name for a subdivision that will sooner or later be lost to history. For that reason, I don't think it's a great choice for an encyclopaedia to prioritise. J947 ‡ edits 01:53, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
- Geography as a discipline is a sea saw tipped between Nomothetic and idiographic and , there are large movements in geography that advocate a focus on case studies to describe the uniqueness of specific places, and there are large movements to focus on generalized widely applicable theories. Unfortunately, the list here pushes hard towards the idiographic, and we are missing a lot of the high level generalized concepts that are within the nomothetic approaches. It's fair to state the articles are more then pure toponomy, but the list really seems like an effort to collect as many place names as possible. Place names, cities, towns, and countries are dust in the wind, concepts like city, town, and country are a bit more permanent. Concepts like Canton, Sovereign state
- I'm not meaning to challenge the scope of academic geography. Apart from a few areas which focus on academic geographic terminology, the Geography division of VA might better be named World: since place articles discuss the crossdisciplinary importance of the places, not toponymy. The articles Malawi and Rawalpindi are not focussed on those names; they are focussed on the historical, political, and cultural importance of the respective places. I resent you calling them "place names" since the articles quite clearly aren't about the names. On the other hand, Canton discusses the name of an administrative division in several countries. What I mean by calling it a "place name" is the likes of Una-Sana Canton and Moravia (canton). J947 ‡ edits 06:31, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- You're wrong. Place name on Websters dictionary is: the name of a geographic locality. Place name origins goes into a bit of detail on place names, but specifically is talking about the names of cities and geographic features. Toponymy is "the study of toponyms (proper names of places, also known as place names and geographic names), including their origins, meanings, usage, and types. Toponym is the general term for a proper name of any geographical feature, and full scope of the term also includes proper names of all cosmographical features." Geography isn't generally about lists of place names. Administrative divisions like canton are geographic concepts, specific place names, like the name of a city or sovereign state, are geographic trivia. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 03:00, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- But they aren't 1:1 with administrative divisions in other countries with the same names either. CMD (talk) 01:50, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
From the lede: "A census tract, census area, census district or meshblock is a geographic region defined for the purpose of taking a census." They are used in multiple countries.
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Only two interwikis. Bluevestman (talk) 05:01, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
From the lede: "A census block is the smallest geographic unit used by the United States Census Bureau for tabulation of 100-percent data (data collected from all houses, rather than a sample of houses). The number of blocks in the United States, including Puerto Rico and other island areas, for the 2020 Census was 8,180,866."
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Just one interwiki and unclear if anybody but the Census Bureau uses this term pbp 21:40, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Not sure what this adds to the concept of a census. CMD (talk) 05:07, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 05:01, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
From the lede: "A Census Block Group is a geographical unit used by the United States Census Bureau which is between the Census Tract and the Census Block. It is the smallest geographical unit for which the bureau publishes sample data, i.e. data which is only collected from a fraction of all households. Typically, Block Groups have a population of 600 to 3,000 people."
- Support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Just one interwiki and unclear if anybody but the Census Bureau uses this term pbp 21:40, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
- Similar to above, the specific details of US census methodology are probably not vital. CMD (talk) 05:08, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 05:01, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:35, 28 May 2025 (UTC)
Najd 4 is listed on level 4 but not on level 5. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:47, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
- Now I see that it is listed as physical geography on both levels 4 and 5, but I would like to list it as a region since I've more often seen it mentioned as a historical region than as a plateau and the article is more about the history, culture and demographics vthan about physical geography. Lophotrochozoa (talk) 14:25, 31 May 2025 (UTC)
A political movement that seeks to create a homeland for Sikhs. It's modern history dates back to at least the 1930s, and the movement has been among the main causes for killings, riots, bombings, and the assassination of Indira Gandhi 4. The movement continues to be a political issue in India, and many organizations have been formed over the years advocating for the formation of a Khalistan.
- Support
- As nom. SameOldSameOldSameOld (talk) SameOldSameOldSameOld (talk) 18:39, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- ALittleClass (talk) 19:57, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 22:47, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Huge landmark of Rio de Janeiro 4. Has 55 interwikis, indicating it's a well-known worldwide.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
1ctinus very kindly provided a list of the articles with 0 interwikis. Here's everything that I believe falls into this category (this category has the least by far, for whatever reason)
Remove Timeline of military aviation
[edit]Military aviation 5 is only VA5, and it's the norm for the "history of" article to be a level lower than the subject itself, so this seems easy to cut. The article's in pretty bad shape as is.
- Support
- As nom. ALittleClass (talk) 08:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 15:39, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 06:53, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
- I don't like listing timelines. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove History of Philadelphia
[edit]A surprising no-interwiki-wonder to me. I guess it's somewhat debatable whether a "history of" article for a subject should even exist separate from the article. Maybe there should be a bigger prune on these types of articles from the list.
- Support
- As nom. ALittleClass (talk) 08:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 20:26, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
- A big town, but not one that is famous or important enough to merit its history at V5. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:15, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove History of rugby league
[edit]What it sounds like.
- Support
- As nom. ALittleClass (talk) 08:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
- Bluevestman (talk) 20:26, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
- Lophotrochozoa (talk) 13:41, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
- Rugby league 4 is V4, but frankly, I think it should be demoted. Rugby football 4 is also V4, and league is its child. History of it should be at V6. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:15, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Qualitative geography
[edit]"A subfield and methodological approach to geography focusing on nominal data, descriptive information, and the subjective and interpretive aspects of how humans experience and perceive the world." It seems decently broad. I guess Human geography 4 covers some of the ground that this article does.
- Support
- Oppose
- Oppose. I created this article, but I'm not a qualitative geographer. I will say that in the discipline of geography this is probably more important then the place names we list. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 01:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
- Oh, wow. You created this article. That's totally a good reason not to remove it. Bluevestman (talk) 20:26, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
- I was disclosing that I created it before voting, not using it as part of an argument, no reason to get aggressive or be dismissive, I'm just making it clear that I have some "stake" in the article. To elaborate though, your reasoning about human geography is flawed as qualitative geographic methods are not limited to human geographic phenomena. It is a subset of Technical geography 4 (An article I also originated) and has some applications in Physical geography 4 (In fact the former president of the American Association of Geographers Rebecca Lave (An article I also originated) applies Critical geography to bridge the gap between physical and human geography, which would generally involve qualitative methods). We include Quantitative geography 5 (an article I also originated) as well. Furthermore, this was added fairly recently, 4-0, on 16 January 2025. Not quite the 6 month months rule of thumb for "Wikipedia:Vital articles#Relitigation," although that is not a hard rule and I'm not the biggest fan of it anyway. Interwiki links is not a good metric alone for measuring an articles vitalness, as it will relate to how recent an article is, and is impacted by some people who actively try to translate articles into multiple languages. We need a composite statistic that is measured against outside sources and qualitative values of vitalness. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 20:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- I was disclosing that I created it before voting, not using it as part of an argument, no reason to get aggressive or be dismissive, I'm just making it clear that I have some "stake" in the article. To elaborate though, your reasoning about human geography is flawed as qualitative geographic methods are not limited to human geographic phenomena. It is a subset of Technical geography
- Oh, wow. You created this article. That's totally a good reason not to remove it. Bluevestman (talk) 20:26, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
Remove History of swimming
[edit]Actually, I'm not convinced this should be removed. If the article existed in more languages, I would definitely defend this articles placement on the list.
- Support
- Oppose
- Your reasoning is entirely based on language links, I oppose the use of that single data point, especially as no one has gotten around to adding it to the vital article criteria..GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 20:26, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- Discuss
ALittleClass (talk) 08:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
We have a bias towards large urban centers in the vital articles, despite these not being the norm for much of human history. Below are a few concepts and specific cultural examples of communities that I think should be included at least at level 5.
From the lede "An aul (/ˈɔːl/; lit. 'village') is a type of fortified village or town found throughout the Caucasus and Central Asia." Adding this can help a bit with our western bias.
- support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- oppose
- neutral
- discuss
Add Linear village
[edit]From the lede "a linear settlement is a (normally small to medium-sized) settlement or group of buildings that is formed in a long line." This is a basic concept in studying human settlement patterns.
- support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- oppose
- neutral
- discuss
Add Village green
[edit]From the lede "A village green is a common open area within a village or other settlement. Historically, a village green was common grassland with a pond for watering cattle and other stock, often at the edge of a rural settlement, used for gathering cattle to bring them later on to a common land for grazing.[citation needed] Later, planned greens were built into the centres of villages."
- support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- oppose
- neutral
- discuss
Add Pedestrian village
[edit]From the lede "A pedestrian village is a compact, pedestrian-oriented neighborhood or town with a mixed-use village center." This is an important concept in modern city planning.
- support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- oppose
- neutral
- discuss
Add Fishing village
[edit]From the lede "A fishing village is a village, usually located near a fishing ground, with an economy based on catching fish and harvesting seafood." This is a fairly basic concept as far as human civilizations go.
- support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- oppose
- neutral
- discuss
From the lede "The word pā (Māori pronunciation: [ˈpaː]; often spelled pa in English) can refer to any Māori village or defensive settlement, but often refers to hillforts – fortified settlements with palisades and defensive terraces – and also to fortified villages." Adding this can help a bit with our western bias.
- support
- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
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GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 19:56, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
Add Jebel Irhoud
[edit]From the lede "Jebel Irhoud or Adrar n Ighoud, is an archaeological site located just north of the town of Tlet Ighoud in Youssoufia Province, approximately 50 km (30 mi) south-east of the city of Safi in Morocco. It is noted for the hominin fossils that have been found there since the discovery of the site in 1961. Originally thought to be Neanderthals, the specimens have since been assigned to Homo sapiens and, as reported in 2017, have been dated to roughly 300,000 years ago (286±32 ka for the Irhoud 3 mandible, 315±34 ka based on other fossils and the flint artefacts found nearby)."
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- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 20:20, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
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From lede "Ohalo II is an archaeological site in the Northern District, Israel, near Kinneret, on the southwest shore of the Sea of Galilee. It is one of the best preserved hunter-gatherer archaeological sites of the Last Glacial Maximum, radiocarbon dated to around 23,000 BP (calibrated)."
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- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 20:20, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
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From lede "El Abra is the name given to an extensive archeological site, located in the valley of the same name. El Abra is situated in the east of the municipality Zipaquirá extending to the westernmost part of Tocancipá in the department of Cundinamarca, Colombia. The several hundred metres long series of rock shelters is in the north of the Bogotá savanna on the Altiplano Cundiboyacense, Eastern Ranges of the Colombian Andes at an altitude of 2,570 metres (8,430 ft). The rock shelter and cave system is one of the first evidences of human settlement in the Americas, dated at 12,400 ± 160 years BP."
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- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 20:20, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
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Add Aetokremnos
[edit]From lede "Aetokremnos is a rock shelter near Limassol on the southern coast of Cyprus. It is widely considered to host some of the oldest evidence of human habitation of Cyprus, dating to around 12,000 years ago."
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- As nom. GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 20:20, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
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