User talk:Redrose64

Hello, Redrose64! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! --Jza84 |  Talk  13:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

January music

story · music · places

Happy new year 2025! Today, pictured on the Main page, Tosca, in memory of her first appearance on stage OTD in 1900, and of principal author Brian Boulton. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Today I had a composer (trumpeter, conductor) on the main page who worked closely with another who just became GA, - small world! To celebrate: mostly flowers pics from vacation ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:00, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Minor disused UK railway stations.

Thanks for adding a solid source to Annesley South Junction Halt railway station. You may or may not be aware of the context: see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Me (DragonofBatley). Your expertise, and your bookshelf, could be very helpful in upgrading some of the articles under consideration. PamD 10:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

As the book isn't being cited, I'm a bit puzzled as to why you think the {{cite book}} template is appropriate? A link for the book is here. Would you prefer this? KJP1 (talk) 22:17, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

The template helps to format it, it doesn't imply that the book is being cited as a reference. But the URL does not yield the text of the book - it is the publisher's web page about the book, and gives virtually no information about the station, other than the fact that it is the subject of two photographs in the book. We don't need the WorldCat link if the |isbn= is supplied. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:27, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Maybe I'm tired, but as far as I can see neither url gives any information about the station. If you have the book and it provides coverage of the station, can't we just use it as a source, and include whatever content it has? It's not as if the article as it stands is cite-heavy. KJP1 (talk) 22:37, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't have the book. Perhaps PamD (talk · contribs) does, as they added the mention in the first place. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:17, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

I only found the publishers' website, with its table of contents which helps verify the halt's existence and name, and added it as Further Reading because that seemed a good place for an RS I can't access but where the info I can access shows that it has a couple of pages about (or pages of photos of) it. PamD 23:36, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Ah, I misread it: a couple of photos, not pages. But still evidence of station name, which was thin on the ground when I added it. I think the other two sites are External links, rather than FR. And yes using the cite book template when not citing is common eg in lists of an author's work: it formats it consistently, and links the isbn. PamD 23:49, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

No worries. I will leave as is. If I get really obsessed I shall buy it online, pay the exorbitant shipping costs, and cite it myself! It’s one of the many odd quirks of Wikipedia - my grandfather was born in Annesley and likely travelled on that very line. KJP1 (talk) 23:49, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

The Railway Children

Thanks for getting the 1991 Series changed to the original Radio 5 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.44.232 (talk) 23:20, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1852 events by country

A tag has been placed on Category:1852 events by country indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 00:47, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 30 § 7th century mass cleanup

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 30 § 7th century mass cleanup on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Beland (talk) 05:46, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

List of rail accidents in the United Kingdom

I made a contribution regarding the death of my grandfather on the 9th December 1970 at the Chivers Level Crossing.

His death certificated states: Died of multiple Injuries as a result of the train which "he was driving" accidently running into the trailer of an articulated lorry there on that day. I can provide a copy of the death certificate.

See the accident report: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Chivers1976.pdf this crash was almost identical. On page 4 paragraph 5 it mentions the his death on the 9th of December 1970.

See: https://www.eastanglianrailwayarchive.co.uk/Railways/Ely-to-Norwich/i-2QFmqfB

I have had feedback from: https://www.railwayaccidents.port.ac.uk/sorry-no-registration-allowed/

See: https://www.railcar.co.uk/topic/accidents/1970s

Also read the the 1970 Chief Inspector of Railways Annual Health and Safety Report – see paragraph 123. I can provide a copy.

See: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=460 follow link to the PDF report.

I think that is sufficient evidence for you to see my grandfather was killed there. I am not sure what "Source" you read but you unfortunately missed the part about my grandfather the train driver being killed there on the 9th of December.

Look forward to hearing from you. Please don't delete again.

Kind regards. Isimmons1 (talk) 11:54, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

@Isimmons1: You refer, presumably, to this revert. This is now the fourth time that you have added that content. Your edit summary reads redrose has not check his facts. I will message redrose with the fact as I had to with another person who deleted my contribution regarding the death of my grandfather. I think his family and friends know more about this. it was more than merely a "car accident". This accident was identical to one in 1976 same location. See that report. top of page 4 paragraph 5.

Can we forget, for the moment, your claim that your grandfather was killed there. The content that you wish to include reads:

• Chivers Occupation level crossing, Cambridgeshire: Passenger train collided with lorry on unmanned level crossing

It was agreed, some years ago, that level crossing collisions were simply not worth writing about, unless they were major accidents such as Hixon (1968) or Ufton Nervet (2004). Many level crossing accidents are the fault of the road user, and there are several each year. Why is this incident at Chivers occupation crossing at all significant? The fact that there is no entry for it in The Railways Archive for 1970 could be because of several reasons, but two that immediately spring to mind are (i) no report was published; or (ii) a report was published, but The Railways Archive do not consider it to be significant enough to prioritise over other, more serious, accidents. You will see from the link that I have provided that they don't ignore level crossing accidents entirely - but Low Fields Farm (October 1970) was an error by railway staff, and Upper Denton (December 1970) was due to the design of the crossing. The report on Chivers occupation crossing (1976) blames the road driver, and in mentioning the 1970 accident, remarking that the two occurrences were very similar.

Whether the driver who was killed was your grandfather or not should have no bearing on including the content, because Wikipedia is not a ... memorial site. Your possession of a death certificate is inadmissible, per the policy on verifiability. Even if the death cert were allowed, the statement Died of multiple Injuries as a result of the train which "he was driving" accidently running into the trailer of an articulated lorry there on that day. does not give the location. This seems to me that you are putting two different sources together to draw a separate conclusion, which is inadmissible per the policy on synthesis of published material. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:30, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

And once again you have miss read the 1976 report which said the driver was killed in 1970. It is totally irrelevant that he was my grandfather, first thing we do agree on. However, you can't include the 1976 accident if you don't include the 1970 accident as the were both almost exactly the same. I have written to the Railway Archive along with many other people and sites, all have taken time to reply to me accept for Railway Archives. I have no understanding of why they have not even taken the time to send me a polite reply but they have not. Maybe you could ask them for me ? Isimmons1 (talk) 15:43, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

WP:Indigenous Peoples of North America/Anishinaabe

Hi @Redrose64, and thank you for pinging me regarding {{WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America/Anishinaabe}}! I add WikiProjects using Rater and AFCH, neither of which show edit previews. This appears to be an issue with AFCH acceptance, where I am seeing this project listed as a possibility. I'll bring up the concern there.

Thanks again for pinging me with this issue! I hadn't seen your previous edit. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 18:32, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

closing RfCs

Hi, Regarding Talk:Alan Turing, what you did produced visible text {{rfc|bio|sci}}. I've never seen anything like that on a closed RfC before (or maybe I didn't look carefully enough). Perhaps that should be removed altogether? Zero^talk 02:31, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

@Zero0000: Please see WP:RFCEND, which states:

To end an RfC manually, remove the {{rfc}} tag from the talk page. Legobot will remove the discussion from the central lists on its next run. ... If you are also closing the discussion, you should do this in the same edit. As an alternative to removing the {{rfc}} tag, you may use one of the template-linking templates such as {{tlx}} to disable it, as in {{tlx|rfc|bio|rfcid=fedcba9}}.

Do not enclose the {{rfc}} tag in <nowiki>...</nowiki> or <syntaxhighlight>...</syntaxhighlight> tags, nor place it in HTML comment markers <!--...--> since Legobot will ignore these and treat the RfC as if it is still open – and may also corrupt the RfC listing pages.

This is exactly what happened here - although you didn't touch Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not, its entry at WP:RFC/ECON became corrupted. My edit caused it to be restored.

But speaking personally - this is not in WP:RFC - I would say that if the RfC is being suspended (or closed temporarily), use the {{tlx}} method; if it's being closed permanently, remove the {{rfc}} tag entirely. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed reply and your help. Cheers. Zero^talk 23:31, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Editnotices/Page/Talk:One Direction

Template:Editnotices/Page/Talk:One Direction has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. MadGuy7023 (talk) 17:51, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

Oxford Bus Company

If Thames Travel have been operating the service to Wallingford since last year there must be a record of the change that can be quoted. I did point out that Google Maps still thinks it is OBC. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 21:34, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

I don't trust Google Maps. They're not a bus operator, so are under no obligation to ensure that bus information is up to date.

Two or three times a year, when there are timetable changes on several routes all at once, Oxford and Thames Travel jointly produce a Service Changes web page; the most recent one mentioning the X40 route is Service Changes from 14th April 2024, but these pages don't always indicate a change of operator.

Have a look at Buses in and around Oxford - the last line of each box shows the operator, and about three-fifths of the way down is the entry for

River Rapids X40, River Rapids 40C, River Rapids NX40
Oxford City Centre to Central Reading
via Iffley Road, Berinsfield, Shillingford, Benson, Wallingford, Woodcote & Caversham
Thames Travel

Note that it says "Thames Travel", not "Oxford Bus Company".

On a more technical level, the current X40 timetable is at https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/oxfordbus/THTR/X40-timetable-20240414-44ad4fa7.pdf - in that URL, THTR denotes Thames Travel (Oxford would be OXBC as in https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/oxfordbus/OXBC/X1-timetable-20240901-173a237c.pdf) and 20240414 is the effective date in CCYYMMDD format. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:18, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Any of those the original editor could have used as a reference, instead they just assumed everybody woud believe it because they said so. I may be wrong but I thought that was the antithesis of everything WP stood for. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 08:47, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

There is also Buses in and around Wallingford - all four entries show Thames Travel as the operator. From this we may conclude that Oxford don't serve Wallingford. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:56, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

And your point is? Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:00, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

That removing Wallingford from the list of places served by Oxford was a valid removal. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:04, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

So we can change what we like without providing evidence, fine, glad we got that sorted. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:18, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

Might I remind you of WP:BURDEN: The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material. So, by restoring the mention of Wallingford as a place served by Oxford BC, it's up to you to supply a source for that. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:34, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

My problem on Dracula's Guest

Thank you for taking the time to explain what was happening to me on this article. It was driving me nuts and I thought I had accidently ruined the article. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:00, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your repair my RfC. I was experimenting with syntax because the text of the RfC was not populating on the notice page -- it was just showing the title. Would be interested in learning what it was that I did wrong. Thx. Johnadams11 (talk) 00:59, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

@Johnadams11: It's simply that this edit lacked a signature (which is optional) and a timestamp (which is mandatory, see WP:RFCST item 6). My first edit, at 23:02 (UTC), added that missing timestamp (and also a copy of your usual signature), but since Legobot only runs once an hour, WP:RFC/HIST and WP:RFC/POL were not updated until 00:01 (UTC). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:39, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. I has spent so much time properly formatting the RfC that I neglected the signature! Thanks again! Johnadams11 (talk) 14:31, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 February 16 § Category:July 1852 in the United Kingdom

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 February 16 § Category:July 1852 in the United Kingdom on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –Aidan721 (talk) 16:22, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Foundation Books

Debate at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request#We_want_to_buy_you_books.©Geni (talk) 07:24, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Flying Scotsman

Hi, what would have to be done to get the Flying Scotsman article to featured article status? I’m ThatTrainGuy1945 (signed out right now) and I saw that you dabble in the British railway system. 66.206.125.114 (talk) 15:06, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:25, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Category:Heritage railway stations in Bedfordshire has been nominated for merging

Category:Heritage railway stations in Bedfordshire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RanDom 404 (talk) 14:32, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

GWR 6800 Class 6880 Betton Grange

I have reverted your reversion of my edit of this article. The first steam information I added to the timeline was coppied from further up the article, which also had a reference. I did not think it necessary to add the reference a second time but have now duplicated the reference in my reversion just to make it clear. Please be more careful withyour reversion of other people's edits. If you had taken time to inspect the article before your kneejerk removal of my edit, you would have seen the text further up the article and could have simply added the duplicate reference, if that was your only gripe with it. Lkingscott (talk) 09:06, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

First, it was your WP:BURDEN, not mine. Second, the content that you added had all the appearance of blogging; and Wikipedia is not a blog. Articles about preserved railway locomotives seem to attract blogging, possibly from one of the people working on the project, eager to publicise the next "milestone". --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Irish music

hi Redrose64, I was the one who added those Category:1950s in Irish music]] etc. It's my first time attempting to make categories. I didn't know I'd done it wrong. How do I go about doing it correctly? There are already categories for the decades 1960s-2020s in Irish music so I don't get the problem. Why did you describe the ones I added 1870s-1950s as "pointless self-cat"s? Ridiculopathy (talk) 15:57, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

@Ridiculopathy: They were showing up in Wikipedia:Database reports/Self-categorized categories (and will remain there until next Tuesday when the report next runs). To fix them, I looked at other similar categories - such as Category:1970s in Irish music - and copied the code in there. Basically: we don't create category loops, and a self-categorized category is the smallest kind of loop. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:11, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Hi Redrose64, thanks for the explanation. Oh so you fixed them rather than deleted them. Thanks. I had thought you had deleted them outright or something. I really do not understand how Categories work on here yet. I guess I'll go and educate myself. By the way, yesterday I made some Self-categorized categories for 'Category:1960s in Irish comedy' all the way up to 'Category:2020s in Irish comedy', so i guess these will show up in the next report. It was the only way I knew how to make a category red-link go blue. Ridiculopathy (talk) 22:47, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

They almost certainly will. All categories must be placed in one or more approriate parent categories, but a category cannot be its own parent, see WP:PARENTCAT. Also, Template:Decade in nationality comedy category doesn't exist, so {{Decade in nationality comedy category}} displays a redlink instead of something meaningful. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:56, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Do you know how I go about creating the template {{Decade in nationality comedy category}}? One would assume if there's such a template for music it would be no problem to have one for comedy. Or do I have to float it by the community first. Ridiculopathy (talk) 02:09, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Template:Decade in nationality music category looks rather complicated, I wouldn't want to replicate that for comedy. It was created by BrownHairedGirl (talk · contribs), but they're serving an indefinite block so cannot be asked for advice.

But a more fundamental question might be: why do you need categories for decades in Irish comedy? Do we have categories for decades in comedy that could do with splitting down by country? Or do we have categories for decades in Ireland that could do with splitting down by topic? Or even categories for Irish comedy that could usefully be split by decade? In short: can you justify a set of categories, each of which is a three-way intersection, in a manner that would survive a WP:CFD nomination? Please see Wikipedia:Overcategorization. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:15, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Regarding Manchester Victoria station

Hi, RedRose64, I'd like to talk about https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1272040047 this issue with the Victoria tram stop section of Manchester Victoria rail station's article. It's only a minor issue on what line(s) Victoria tram stop is on, but I really want to know what the problem is. I thought it be better to talk about this on a talk page instead of reverting each other's edits.

The lines that a tram stop is on is not exactly defined, but I have edited and reviewed every tram stop page related to Metrolink and used a common rule across all 99 articles: that the separate tram "lines" are defined by how they opened physically, and by line references across the network.

The different tram routes are different from the tram lines, and I'm certain that this is where the confusion lies.

You say that "trams to Rochdale bypass Victoria", and I agree. I don't agree that this means Victoria is on the Rochdale Line. The tram route from East Didsbury - Rochdale Town Centre operates through Victoria, yes, but the physical tram stop does not lie on the Rochdale Line's tracks. The Rochdale Line's tracks begin at Irk Valley Junction, like I said previously.

You also mentioned that I was implying that the line has no stops west of Monsall, and you'd be right. Again, the physical Rochdale Line tracks are at Monsall, but not Victoria. You also mentioned that this way would mean it's isolated from the rest of the network. I'm not saying that the Rochdale Line begins at Monsall, I'm saying it ends at Irk Valley Junction with the Bury Line. It would seem isolated if we were just talking about the stations, but I'm talking about the entire network, including the track.

You would be correct in saying the final stop for Rochdale-bound trams before getting onto the physical tracks would be Victoria, but this doesn't mean that the physical line begins there.

That's a long explanation, but I hope it makes sense, and I'd like if we could come to an agreement. Eccentral8688 (talk) 23:31, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

@Eccentral8688: I'm not claiming that trams to Rochdale bypass Victoria. My edit summary, in full, was so trams to Rochdale somehow bypass Victoria, then? It's a question, asking how trams from the centre of Manchester can reach the Rochdale line without stopping at Victoria. There are no other routes out of the city centre; they must run via Victoria. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:36, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

There is no way for trams from the centre of Manchester to reach the Rochdale Line without stopping at Victoria. That doesn't mean it's on the Rochdale Line's tracks, though Eccentral8688 (talk) 19:18, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	Thank you so much for all your work across British heritage steam articles in keeping them clean and free of vandalism. :) MelonLost (talk) 10:54, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:26, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks

That's my first time initiating a closure request, and I thought "initiated" refers to when the closure request is initiated, but I now know it's when the RfC was initiated. Thanks again for politely instructing me in the edit summary. Left guide (talk) 09:10, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

@Left guide: Yes, if you think about it, there is no need to separately indicate when the closure request is initiated, because it's in the signature that you left when posting the request. This does confuse some people. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:25, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 March 7 § Per-year categories from 500s BC, 400s BC, 300s BC

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 March 7 § Per-year categories from 500s BC, 400s BC, 300s BC on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Beland (talk) 09:08, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Cecil Kimber

Thank you for your help regarding the MG M-type - MG Midget links - as I was working on the Cecil Kimber entry I had forgotten the "MG Midget" entry did not refer to all of the model's history.

Regarding the coverage of his death, the UK official death record lists his death as having happened at the hospital - but there's no reason to quibble - Thanks again! WmArbaugh (talk) 11:52, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

RfC Vasojevići

Thanks so much for pointing out the issue. I've shortened and clarified the RfC question without changing its meaning or the previous responses, please let me know if anything else is needed. Aeengath (talk) 16:20, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

@Aeengath: I'm puzzled why in this edit you removed the numeric time value, replacing it with an unrecognised |timestamp=11:01, 18 April 2025 parameter, also why you removed the {{rfc}} tag; and increased the length of the RfC statement, which as I explained already, extends to the next valid timestamp. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:49, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

@Redrose64 Yes I realised afterwards, I'm new to RfCs and made a few mistakes in the process. Structuring it correctly was more complicated than I thought, I couldn't get the acute accent to show up on RfC/History and geography then I mistakenly removed and then restored some important templates as I learned the formatting and tried using past RfC as examples. None of this was intentional I was just trying to follow your advice and ensure compliance with WP:RFCBRIEF but rushed it a bit too much. Apologies for any confusion this caused I'll take care to avoid this going forward. Aeengath (talk) 19:30, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

@Aeengath: The acute accent problem is a known bug with Legobot (talk · contribs), which maintains pages like Wikipedia:Requests for comment/History and geography (the problem is that Legobot can't handle characters with Unicode values of U+0100 or higher - and ć is U+0107). I fixed it by creating Talk:Vasojevi?i. On that matter, edits like this are pointless - as explained in the notice displayed when you edited the page, Legobot will revert or overwrite any changes that it didn't make itself. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:23, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

I’ve been struggling a bit with all the technical aspects and it’s been tricky organising the RfC while making sure everything was properly in place. I just posted on the TP but I’m not happy with how the text looks. If you have a minute would you mind taking a look? Aeengath (talk) 16:40, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Advice on dealing with rude IP

Been reverting an IP's edits to Merseyrail as I felt they were unconstructive - and as I suggested, they went to the talk page to discuss the edits.... but instead of talking about their edits, they've simply twice labelled me as a "disruptive editor", and on their talk page left this message - "Do not slap WPs at me, as if I do not know how to write and you do. Next you may be saying I am insulting or being personal as well - another ploy. My changes were 100% constructive correcting infactuals. The lines in the 1970s were not owned by several different railway companies. They were owned publicly by British Rail not privately owned. It read like there was only one route through the city centre. If you think that is good English, and promoting infactuals who should desist from editing Wikipedia." which I thought was rather insulting. Any suggestions on dealing with them? I don't want to take them to any sort of noticeboard for nothing more than a couple of edits... Danners430 (talk) 10:55, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Honestly too, it wouldn't be something worthy of wasting people's time at any noticeboard either :-) Danners430 (talk) 11:05, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Apologies, as the last time I asked for advice it went from reasonably innocent to pointy and personal attacks in the time it took to message yourself... I've given up and stopped engaging and just gone to ANI. Danners430 (talk) 11:28, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

@Danners430: I've been offline between 06:35 and 17:25 (travelling, working, travelling). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:59, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

No worries at all - we all have real lives :) Quite often things like these don’t go as rapid, so there’s time to leave a message on a talk page for advice… and others, like here, it’s all over in the space of an hour or so… Danners430 (talk) 18:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for fixing my mistake on Railcar mover. I meant to revert the external link added by the spammer, but I must have goofed and selected the wrong revision in the edit history. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 20:32, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

Possibly not, the editor had self-reverted, and you reverted that revert. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:15, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

Table cleanup

Thanks for cleaning up my tables at Selby rail crash, I admittedly have fairly limited experience with them so was relying on Help:Table quite heavily. Re. your comment on the background property, I found those properties on the help page: "Cell borders can be hidden by adding border: none; background: none; to the style attributes of either the table or the cell". Do you know if there's a better way of positioning those "Total" rows and columns? FozzieHey (talk) 18:53, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

The background isn't hidden. You may need to adjust the "contrast" or "brightness" settings of your monitor to make it show up, but for me, it shows as the same shade of grey as the table background, which is a very slightly darker grey that the page background. The absence of borders makes it easier to spot the change in shade. Here's a demo that makes it clear:

An excerpt from Form 1a Single carriageway road vehicle incursion risk ranking

Factor	Options	Score
f1	Road Approach Containment Score 1 for acceptable (safety fence and/or heavily wooded side approaches, buildings or brick wall thicker than 450mm) Score 12 for inadequate (imperfect fencing and/or medium/lightly wooded approaches, 225mm thick brick wall) Score 24 for non-existent (No fencing, or only post and rail/wire, no significant vegetation)	—
f2	Road Alignment (Horizontal) Score 1 for straight road with at least 7.3m carriageway Score 3 for straight less than 7.3m carriageway or curved at least 7.3m carriageway Score 7 for curved road less than 7.3m carriageway Score 10 for reverse curves less than 7.3m carriageway	—
		Total
		—

Valid values for the background properties are given at the CSS 2.1 specification - where none means that there is no background image, which is the default state. To alter the background colour, you can use any valid colour value, plus the keywords transparent or inherit. But in this case, the two keywords will merely cause the cell to take on the colour of the enclosing element - the table row. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:09, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Ah right, I understand now, so the background property is redundant? I'll remove it, but I guess the look is fine how it is at the moment, just wondered if there was an example of how to do it "properly". FozzieHey (talk) 19:40, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

What we want is the background colour of the table's parent. I don't know of an easy way to find that out except by possibly using JavaScript, and I'm no expert there. If you assume that the page background is white, and set an explicit background: white; declaration, this would give the "right" appearance for users of most skins - unless they switch to dark mode. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:10, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

@FozzieHey: I worked it out, in a kludgy way, with this edit. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:48, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Ah amazing, thanks for doing that. My CSS skills are quite limited! It might be worth adding it to that Help page? I would have thought that having a "Total" cell on certain types of tables would be pretty common. FozzieHey (talk) 17:51, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

As I say, it's kludgy; and it also doesn't play nicely with dark mode. For those reasons I do not think that adding it to a help page would be at all sensible. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:22, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

March music

story · music · places

Thanks for fixing the bullets! - Today, 300 years of Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern, BWV 1! - We sang works for (mostly) double choir by Pachelbel, Johann Christoph Bach, Kuhnau/Bach, Gounod and Rheinberger! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:46, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Little help

Hey Redrose64, can you check why one of the toolforge link I provided here is not getting inside the brackets? Kindly fix it. Thanks a lot! Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:37, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

@Abhishek0831996: This was fixed by Anomalocaris (talk · contribs). Basically, one closing square bracket was missing - but on a link earlier on, not one of the toolforge ones. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:19, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Contribution to an AFD

Hey there, Id want you to contribute to the afd, if you don't mind and got some time. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Vijayant_Thapar_(officer). Thanks, have a great day. CaptShayan (talk) 04:57, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

@CaptShayan: Why are you sending this to me, when I am neither the article's creator, nor a major contributor? In fact, I have never before edited that article, or its talk page. Indeed, why are you sending similar messages to several other people? This can be seen as WP:CANVASsing. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:36, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

"Help:Editing" editing (duplication intended 🙂) dialogue

@Redrose64, you recently checked some edits I'd made on the Help:Editing guide. I looked over each of your edits and I'd like to follow up on several because careful proofreading is a longtime priority of mine, as I know it is of yours.

_________________

1 -

TEXT: The VisualEditor option is intended as a user-friendly, "What You See Is What You Get" (WYSIWYG) editing aid, allowing one to edit pages without the need to learn wikitext markup.

WHAT YOU DID: You deleted the comma I put after (WYSIWYG).

MY COMMENT: I respectfully disagree with removing the comma, because the entire appositional phrase used to describe editing aid is “What You See Is What You Get" (WYSIWYG)" ... and so a comma is required at the end of that phrase.

_________________

2 -

TEXT: It is also a good idea to publish changes frequently, so that a browser crash or electrical failure will not result in the loss all your work.

WHAT YOU DID: You added of as the 4th to last word.

MY COMMENT: I agree but could have sworn I added it. I remember noting the need to do so.

_________________

3 -

TEXT: The reference is a footnote, appearing as an inline link (e.g. [1][2]) to a particular item in a collated, numbered list of footnotes, found wherever a template or tag is present, usually in a section titled "References" or "Notes".

WHAT YOU DID: You deleted the comma I added after e.g.

MY COMMENT: In all my writing classes, I was taught that a comma is always placed after e.g. and i.e. I was surprised to find in a quick online search for supporting style guidance that in the US, where I’m from, a comma after e.g. is pretty standard ... but not in the UK and other countries using British format.

That said, though — and to save you time pointing out that the article was written in British format after all — yes, sorry, I later realized that. When I began editing the article, it was only because I’d seen a few little issues pop up that I decided should be picked up on. Focused on them, I didn’t check to see which format prevailed in the article as I would have done in a traditional edit. Lesson learned for future unplanned editing.

Further comment: so often I see a mixture of national formatting in the same article and it's not always easy to know which was the original author's. To save later authors guesswork and time, I wish there were always a reminder to authors of new articles to put something at the top to indicate which format they plan to follow.

_________________

4 -

TEXT: You can still edit these pages indirectly by submitting an edit request: click "View source," then "Submit an edit request" at the bottom right, and an editor who is authorized to edit the page will respond to your request.

WHAT YOU DID: You moved the comma I had put inside the closing quotation marks, outside them.

MY COMMENT: I agree, with comments similar to the last paragraph of #3 above.

_________________

5 -

TEXT: The two images under the title of “Two editing environments: Source Editor (wikitext) and VisualEditor.”

WHAT YOU DID: You removed the line spacing that I made between the images.

MY COMMENT: I respectfully disagree with the removal, on the basis of need for visual clarity for readers. The extra space to separate the images would stop them from ”running on” visually into each other.
_________________

6 -

TEXT: The edit toolbar image.

WHAT YOU DID: You removed the line spacing I placed underneath that image.

MY COMMENT: I respectfully but strongly disagree with the removal, again on the basis of visual clarity for readers — but this time because of the need to make clear which paragraph the image refers to. Without line spacing under the edit toolbar image, some readers could assume it goes with both paragraphs immediately above and below. Augnablik (talk) 11:45, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

@Augnablik: Please provide diffs for the last two of these claims, which I cannot find in my five edits. Also, please don't shout. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:55, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

Oh, no, shouting wasn't intended, RedRose. I used caps as I did just to make the long message easier for you to read. It never occurred to me that you might think of using caps that way as shouting.

Perhaps the message was haunted, though — because even though it looked fine in both my Source and Visual Editors, when I published it I was horrified to see that some of the underlining was missing, and so all that extra formatting looked completely inconsistent. Now THAT did cause some shouting on my part: inwardly, anyway. I was hoping you wouldn't read the message till I could go back and fix it, but no such luck.

I'll see what I can find to show you the diffs for the line spacing around the images. Augnablik (talk) 12:19, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

Capitals, plus bold, plus underlining = undue emphasis. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:35, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

@Redrose64, good heavens ... yes, of course that formatting was to emphasize ... but at the risk of "undue emphasis," please remember what I shared earlier of the intention behind it. The message itself wasn't in caps, after all.

May today throw you nothing worse to deal with than this. Augnablik (talk) 15:41, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

@Redrose64, after I went back to the article's History page, like you I noticed that you didn't make any edits about the line spacing work I referred to in #5 and #6. I think I remember now what happened that made me assume that you had in fact made those edits: I had responded to the four other issues that were definitely raised in your edits, according to the History page, and when I finished with those, I noticed the line spacing issues and just assumed they were also yours.

So, please ignore #5 and #6 in my message. Sorry. A mystery. Not the first such by a long shot — like what I described going on in the first message I sent you earlier today that I'd checked several times in both the Source and Visual Editors.

By contrast, I think I used only the Visual Editor to do the line spacing around the images; so I will go back and try again to add it in the Source Editor. Augnablik (talk) 17:26, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

London Underground O and P Stock

OK, you win. That article can stay without a short description (or you could always add your own. I won’t revert it). Neiltonks (talk) 22:29, 29 March 2025 (UTC)