Talk:Pharaonism

This article is extremely unclear. Is Taha Hussein the most notable writer on Pharaonism or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.66.233 (talk) 18:12, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted edits that contradicted the source (Michael Wood)

His article can be seen at [1]. Doug Weller talk 13:33, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Jstor version is more easily read.[2]. Doug Weller talk 13:44, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Use of Wood

We do use him a lot for one section - but he seems useful, and I'm wondering if the deleted text below should be restored:

The purposes of Pharaonism was ultimately to promote the Westernization of Egypt by inspiring Egyptians to think of their nation as "European" at a time when the British were still occupying Egypt, but Wood noted that "a call to emulate the West would be expected to stand or fall on its own merits, rather than as part of a clumsy promotion of a Pharaonic past with which most Egyptians have refused to identify themselves."

Other than that, I've reverted again because we need sources that specifically discuss the subject of the article, as Egyptian nationalism is not the same as Pharaonism. Doug Weller talk 13:14, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

References

Bad sources for "neo-pharaonism" and conflicting information (Concerning disputed edit)

Since my edit was reverted by @ Epenkimi (talk · contribs) I'm giving my rationale for the removal of all mentions of Neo-pharaonism. Let us go line by line and look at every reference I removed.

-Since 2020, however, a popular and state-sponsored revival of the ideology, termed Neo-Pharaonism, has been taking place in Egypt.- The references for this were- An opinion piece from Kyle J. Anderson for the London-based, "progressive, non-partisan news outlet", The New Arab

And a separate article written by Dalia Ibraheem for the self-proclaimed "Pan-African platform for news" and progressive platform, African Arguments

Both articles are heavily critical of the concept, likening it to European forms of fascist ultra-nationalism. This is a theme among every single reference that even recognizes the concept, but for now what concerns us are the matters of fact these references should be reinforcing for the article. They are meant to demonstrate that a new, separate ideology called "Neo-pharaonism" has appeared in Egypt. What's their case?

The New Arab opinion piece does not demonstrate this ideology at all. it presupposes its presence as a distinct movement within Egyptian society, goes over a few examples of the Egyptian state making use of Pharaonic aesthetics and iconography, and makes some connections to European, specifically German, use of ancient history for fascist/ultra-nationalist purposes. As for the African Arguments piece, the bias and narrative is quite clear. It's meant to present an Afro-Centrist, progressive view on Egyptian nationalism. It also presupposes some wider change in how Egyptians think of their identity based on a few state-run parades that made use of Pharaonic iconography and western culture-war issues in which most Egyptians were opposed to the Afro-centrist position.

These articles make the common mistake of assuming that any defense of Egypt's Pharaonic past is a sign of some new, never before seen school of thought amongst Egyptians, and fail to effectively differentiate between the simple use of the Pharaonic aesthetic by the Egyptian state, and a wider change in how Egyptians view their identity. They were able to demonstrate the former, they were not able to demonstrate the latter.

-In the translation of "Jahiliyya" I switched out the "barbarous" in "barbarous ignorance" with "pre-Islamic"- This was simply meant to make the definition more clear and concise for the reader, refer to the article for Jahiliyya if you have any questions or objections.

-Critics have described the government's promotion of Neo-Pharaonism as having undertones of "racial nationalism".- (Completely Removed)

Once again, all of this is built on false presuppositions. The only references provided that acknowledge Neo-pharaonism or try to explain its mere existence have been extremely critical of it, on what basis is this dichotomy presented?

-The Neo-Pharaonic trend has been analyzed as a rather unique movement for Egypt, given that it is a state-sponsored "populist discourse of identity politics" which moves away from Islamism and pan-Arabism towards the promotion of a special Egyptian identity. Curiously, no widespread Islamist backlash towards Neo-Pharaonism has been observed yet.- (Completely Removed)

"Huh, I wonder why Islamist's aren't mad at this new ideology we just made up"

"A resurgence of Pharaonism, dubbed "Neo-Pharaonism" has been noted in today's Egypt, coming from both the state and the people." I replaced -Pharaonism, dubbed "Neo-Pharaonism"- with -Pharaonic depictions and discourse- Since this line uses the same references as the first line, it has the same core issue. This rise in "Neo-pharaonism" hasn't been effectively demonstrated, only a rise in Pharaonic iconography and discourse regarding depictions in the west has been demonstrated, hence the change in implication.

Looking at the references for these lines, they all follow the same pattern, they are either Afro-Centrists, progressive western diaspora, or western progressives in general, who have some reason or another to be opposed to how Egyptians feel about their views. A more neutral view on Neo-pharaonism, perhaps written by actual Egyptians living in Egypt, would be more than welcome and help justify its inclusion in this article. As of right now, I'm not exactly sure what differentiates a Neo-pharaonist from an Egyptian nationalist who has no issue with the Pharaonic aesthetic.

There were and still are some extremely biased references in the article, but I opted to keep them in as they effectively demonstrate the actual content of the text they're a reference for. AnonEgyptianEditor (talk) 03:29, 4 February 2025 (UTC) AnonEgyptianEditor (talk) 21:31, 12 April 2025 (UTC)