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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4

Art of the Title

I came across Art of the Title and found these interviews with the studios that did the title sequence for these films:

I checked a few articles that didn't have any information about the title sequence design, so these could be helpful in adding information to the above articles. Gonnym (talk) 15:25, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

This is really great, good find @Gonnym:! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Multiverse structure

So, up until today I was pretty much content with how we’re handling the Multiverse stuff for Marvel. However, after I watched a video explaining what the tree at the end of Loki S2 could really mean I am not so sure anymore.

Some takeaways:

  • He notes how Loki was primarily dealing with the 616 universe. As such, in the show there are numerous references to branches of 616 but never a full fledged separate universe. Möbius’s “616-adjacent realm” comment feeds into this.
    • Additionally, Michael Waldron, who practically made most of the multiverse logic, said himself that with Loki and time branches, you’re still anchored to some original timeline. Then he says how America Chavez can do the “impossible” and jump from one universe to the other. So essentially he’s saying Chavez is the only one that can go from one universe to the other (hence we have 616 and then 838). NWH IIRC also made it clear that the previous Spider-Man villains we see are from different universes and not 616 branches.
      • I think the end of Loki S1 with those two black hole shots and then zooming into the right one to the Sacred Timeline implies this but I don’t think that’s been confirmed, but this is what the episode shows us so we should maybe note it in some form?
      • Its also mentioned how the Ant-Man book gives some lore to Endgame’s time travel shenanigans so if someone gets a hold on that please feel free to update it

So what I’m suggesting/proposing:

  • Split off the branched realities to an MCU Earth-616 page for the sake of gathering all Sacred Timeline branches (not sure about What If but given they also deal with diverging from main MCU timeline maybe? This needs more discussion IMO).
  • On the Multiverse page, the Notable realities section should have only the ones established as separate universes and with clear story and plot purposes to the specific film it’s in. So that’d include 616, 838, Peter-Two and -Three’s realities, and the recent X-Men one shown at the end of The Marvels. As it stands, the others on that list are all diverged Sacred Timeline/616 entries (specifically the Time Heist ones).

Could this be all moot and be nothing more then me WP:SYNTHing? Possibly, but I’m trying to convey this in logic that the movies and shows themselves and the creators behind it have explained before, without trying to fill in gaps with stuff not explicitly said. Let me know what you think of this and if you have any alternate ideas to clean this up. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 22:09, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Without any adequate sources beyond some random YouTube video to back up these claims, they are SYNTH and somewhat merely conjecture. We need WP:Reliable sources to state any of this. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
He does bring up several commentary and sources from the producers and writers but I’ll scour for them and post them here tonight. Yes some of his talk is conjecture and SYNTH but the producer/writer statements he talks about/refers to are what I am trying to convey here. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 22:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
@MarioProtIV: the link appears to be broken, could you link to it again or put the name and author of the video? —El Millo (talk) 02:02, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Is this section saying that there is a difference between the branches from the sacred timeline and the multiverse? Because that seems like someone is way overthinking this. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal regarding season article naming

There is a proposal to change the naming conventions of TV season articles from the current practice of XXX (season 1) to XXX, season 1 or XXX season 1. As such a change would affect a substantial number of articles, you are invited to participate in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television) § Move TV seasons from parenthetical disambiguation to comma disambiguation. Thank you. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Update: Please see Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television) § Follow-up RfC on TV season article titles. Thanks. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:18, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Feige MCU importance scale rating

Shouldn't Kevin Feige have a higher MCU importance rating in WikiProjects? I noticed today he's marked as low importance. I know it isn't an exact 1:1, but Star Wars has George Lucas as a top importance rating, which I wouldn't be against putting Feige at the same rating within the MCU. -- ZooBlazer 05:33, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Totally. Kevin Feige is considered as the creator of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, so he should have a top importance rating such as George Lucas with Star Wars and Walt Disney with Disney. If we were talking about Marvel Comics, I would disagree. But since its Marvel Cinematic Universe task force, I totally agree. BigLordFlashtalk 14:15, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Directing/screenwriting duos

@Gonnym: Regarding your recent edits turning the line breaks into two separate links, is there a policy or guideline that says not to do this? I ask because I know this is also done on many other articles, including the several MCU films co-directed by the Russos and/or co-written by Markus and McFeely. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:11, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

We need to stop with the arguments like "this is also done on many other articles", which is basically WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Infoboxes in general are in very bad shape and even are sacred MCU articles are not above obvious and horrible misuses (see the horrible usage at List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series).
Regarding this specific issue, the infobox has for years stated that we should use list templates when dealing with multiple people. This is not a stylistic choice but done for accessibility concerns (MOS:PARABR, MOS:PLIST). In the guideline for it there is no example of usage inside a link. The question is then, how do screen readers handle a Wikilink that its display is the only part that is a list. Does it provide the same user experience a user with a screen reader is used to? Is it inferior? Whoever wants to change to that style, should first ask this at the accessibility guideline page. If their answer is that it's fine, then we can change it here but we shouldn't ignore accessibility. Gonnym (talk) 09:54, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
I wasn't saying that this is correct because OSE, just that if we are removing these on some articles, we should do the same elsewhere, and perhaps notify the film project at large. Anyway, if the rationale for your edits is that MOS:ACCESS doesn't mention line breaks within links, then perhaps we should seek clarification on its talk page. MOS:ACCESS, along with all PAGs, are not meant to be exhaustive. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:35, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Rotten Tomatoes episode ratings

It looks like Rotten Tomatoes no longer displays the X/10 ratings for TV episodes. If that's the case I'd assume most of the episode articles would have to remove the scores since it is no longer sourced. -- ZooBlazer 04:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmm. The Glorious Purpose S101 page does list the 97% with 37 reviews, but no indicator of the X/10 average score. As I don't edit much with the episode articles, I'd have to take a look into this, though from what I can tell you are correct, Zoo. This is an unfortunate change in their aggregation model. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:15, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, I think there was an update some time between SI and Loki season 2 that removed or hid those scores on the site. Also seems like they no longer do a critics consensus for newer episodes, but luckily the older ones are still on RT. -- ZooBlazer 18:00, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

John Rocha

I am aware John Rocha is considered a subject-matter expert based on WP:SPS but may I ask how? The policy states that a reliable, independent source must publish them for them to be considered a subject-matter expert, but I don't recall a rumor from John Rocha specifically, not Jeff Sneider, being published by a reliable source. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. In the Wonder Man article, his rumor about the series being canceled is reported on by ScreenGeek, a non-reliable source.

However, if it is actually the Hot Mic Podcast as a whole that is considered a self-published source and Rocha is basically grandfathered into being considered an SME, I strongly believe we should make an exception and stray from that as there is a significant disparity between Sneider's and Rocha's level of reliability, and he even admits this himself. Anytime he's about to share something he heard, he prefaces it by saying "Jeff's the credible one so takes this with a grain of salt," essentially admitting that his rumors are not credible, here's one example.

In that one example, he proceeds to claim that the Fantastic Four cast would be announced "by the end of next week", which of course has not happened. Ten days after his "Wonder Man is dead" claim, THR and Deadline said the series was still happening. On his latest stream, he said he'd seen reports that Ayo Edebiri might be pulling out of Thunderbolts. I've scoured Twitter to find such a report but I don't believe it exists. Three days later at the Golden Globes, Edebiri reiterated she's still in the film. (Besides, why is someone simply saying they saw a rumor even being mentioned on Wikipedia in the first place?) Later in that stream, he read out a fake Thunderbolts premise, thinking it was official, that actually traces back to one of those shady Marvel Updates accounts on Twitter, and the premise is clearly supposed to be a joke as it is almost a 1:1 match for the Suicide Squad plot.

I am aware that it is not up to Wikipedia editors to determine whether a source is credible or not, but I felt the need to share my thoughts and to see what others may think. What's happening here is we're basically considering a self-admittedly non-reliable source reliable and sometimes even reporting on things he says he saw online. As I said before, if Rocha is being considered an SME under the umbrella of the Hot Mic Podcast, I believe an exception should made in this case and his rumors should not be included on Wikipedia. What do you guys think? Aldwiki1 (talk) 16:33, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I was admittedly skeptical of including Rocha's most recent claim on Edebiri as it raised a few eyebrows for myself given the lack of backup evidence of said rumors, and others I have shared that claim with have expressed this same sentiment. I do believe Rocha is a less credible source than Sneider is, though he has gotten a few things correct (though I don't recall them off the top of my head). The Wonder Man report is somewhat questionable, though we include that more for neutrality's sake. ScreenGeek appears to have some editorial oversight, so that was why their article on Rocha's comments was included there, although we can revert back to the direct YouTube source if that satisfies concerns. I am also lenient in removing Rocha's claims from the Thunderbolts draft as those do seem less accurate/plausible. Regardless, we do know Sneider is the more reputable of the two, and I should have been more cautious with what to include from his co-host. (We did have a discussion about Rocha's reliability at Talk:Wonder Man (miniseries)#Reliable of source and contradiction, so this is an extension of that.) I am willing to be less inclusive and more skeptical of Rocha's comments on rumors/reports moving forward, after all, this is all part of the process of determining reliability among sources. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
I agree Rocha probably shouldn't be considered reliable. But Sneider has worked previously at Hollywood trades (I can point to Collider specifically) and he can be viewed as a SME. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:07, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
I don't mean to say this as if it proves Rocha's unverifiable claims (which Sneider himself said was something he "speculated"), though it turns out true that Edebiri dropped out of Thunderbolts. Just putting this here for context, that's all. Trailblazer101 (talk) 05:41, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Iron Man and/or Endgame as a vital article

I nominated Iron Man and/or Endgame to become vital articles if anyone has anything they would like to add to the discussion which can be found here. -- ZooBlazer 19:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I cast my !vote! - Karl Mordo Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
@ZooBlazer: Based on the other comments and votes there, I'm thinking we should look into nominating the main MCU article to be promoted to a level 4 vital arts article (as it currently is under that level 5 here) and then repurpose this nomination as level 5 under that umbrella should that get promoted. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:21, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
@Trailblazer101 Nomination done. -- ZooBlazer 05:39, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Unused episode reference lists

Are unused episode reference lists such as those at List of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. characters#Season 1 a valid usage? When a normal reference is unused it will throw an error "ref is not used in the content" and be placed in an error category. Using them this way bypasses this check. Additionally, we end up with a situation where have duplicate references (such as to "One of Us"). I think we should comment out the unused list so any future use is already ready, but when used, they should be added to the normal reference list. Gonnym (talk) 13:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

If I recall, for that list specifically, the episode refs were included to just have a "general" citation on the list to claim that it could source info for characters if third party ones weren't available. Obviously, adding those tapered off at some point, so I don't really know if they are worthwhile on the whole to include. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:29, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, the idea was we could have unsourced character details (which people kept adding anyway) and they would be covered because all the episodes were referenced. Ideally, we would go through and make sure there were reliable third-party sources for all information in the article and then we wouldn't need those general references. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
I don't see how these are helpful though. If the point is just throw a general source that isn't easily verifiable or helpful, then lets just give the series as a a source. A reader wanting to confirm a specific detail and has a list of 100 episodes that one of them -might- have the information, realistically won't find it. Gonnym (talk) 20:35, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Deadpool

Yesterday, @Gonnym went through a bunch of articles, files, and redirects related to Deadpool and Deadpool 2 and tagged them with |mcu=yes. I was halfway through reverting them but stopped when they began re-reverting. You can see the subsequent discussion here. We currently do not regard Deadpool and Deadpool 2 as part of the MCU on any of our articles, including List of Marvel Cinematic Universe films, and neither does Deadpool (film) nor Deadpool 2.

I'm fairly certain we've discussed this before with multiversal films in general, but I guess this is trickier since Deadpool 3 is a direct sequel to the previous films. But even then, I don't think we can treat them as MCU because from a real-world perspective, they were still produced by a different studio and set in a different franchise. That Disney has decided to keep the same actor for Deadpool as they have done with several other characters (for fan-service/$$$ reasons) does not change this or make the previous two films canon. Gonnym, however, believes that Deadpool 3 connects to the MCU [so] it does mean that Deadpool 1 and 2 belong to the MCU. They also argue that |mcu=yes doesn't necessarily mean it's MCU, but I'll note that we don't tag any of the SSU films, or the X-Men films, or even other articles tangentially related to the MCU like Walt Disney Studios (division) and Marvel Comics. Thoughts?

InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I noticed these as well and already commented at that talk, though I'll reiterate some of my concerns here. It seems that what is defined as the scope of the MCU taskforce has been perceived to be ambiguous with several tagging in the logs lately for articles only remotely related to the MCU (which I don't think is the best practice), especially when it comes to adding it for films clearly not part of the franchise. If notifying the taskforce of article alerts is a concern, those can be done through tagging them with {{WikiProject Comics}} with |marvel=yes and through WP:FILM discussions that many of us are also on. Deadpool 3 was never an official title so one could argue that Deadpool & Wolverine is somewhat separate from the prior films, though it cannot be argued that it being in the MCU would make the prior films (let alone other X-Men films) worthy of the MCU tag. We don't (and shouldn't) do that for the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man films, Elektra, the Venom films, or any appearance of Charles Xavier. Same with X-Men '97. The comics articles don't and shouldn't use the MCU tags. Making an exception for the prior Deadpool films seems unnecessary and counterintuitive. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:57, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
I would argue that one of the main reasons Disney insisted on not calling it "Deadpool 3" was likely to convey that it is its own thing. Same faces, presumably loads of references and Easter eggs, but different characters and continuities from a real-world perspective. They already did this with Professor X in a yellow wheelchair and a different-looking Beast who knows Maria Rambeau (same case for DC with Michael Keaton's Batman, who has the same Batmobile and the same catchphrases, but evidently a different character). InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:11, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree with InfiniteNexus, having a sequel in the MCU doesn't mean they're connected enough for the tag, should be a more explicit connection for the tag. Maguire's Spider-Man 1 and Garfield's The Amazing Spider-Man are more connected from their appearances in No Way Home but aren't and shouldn't be tagged. Indagate (talk) 20:20, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I was getting to the content table and saw these adds after glancing at this discussion. I've removed the remaining Deadpool-related articles from being tagged. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I've now removed any other mcu tags that remained on the articles and tagged them all with more appropriate ones per my suggestions. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Hatnote Discussion

Hello all! After some editing at Thor: Love and Thunder regarding the use of a hatnote for Marvel Studios: Assembled in its "Documentary special" section, there is now a whole discussion at Wikipedia talk:Hatnote#Hatnote overuse? regarding this and an alleged "overuse" of this, which would benefit from the perspectives of other contributors here, given we strive to keep our articles consistent. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:02, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Agatha All Along

Thanks to those helping out with the clean-up after this name change, and thanks to everyone here for their continued good work across the MCU articles. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks adam, and right back at you! It's good to have you back helping out with the cleanups lately. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

X-Men '97

There is a discussion at Talk:X-Men '97#Inclusion in the Disney+ Multiverse Saga row that is relevant to this taskforce. This show is not set in the MCU, but Disney+ is listing it as part of the MCU's multiverse so it may be that we should be treating it the same way that we treat other multiverse shows like What If...? and Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. - adamstom97 (talk) 10:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

MTV News sources

I've made this post at both WT:FILM and WT:TV but MTV News articles have been pulled offline, with it also noted that some of them are not even accessible in the Wayback Machine. I know that some of the early MCU films have sources from them (I want to say probably into the early Phase Three films?) so if there is a way we can possible gather all the articles using the site and ensure they have working archives (plus mark them as dead) that'd be great. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

This is being worked upon per this. Kailash29792 (talk) 02:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Features Split Notice

Hello all! There is currently a discussion proposing a split of the Features of the Marvel Cinematic Universe list, in which more input would be greatly appreciated. I have outlined a rough counter-proposal to better manage this list and avoid a full split: The discussion can be found here: Talk:Features of the Marvel Cinematic Universe § Propose Split. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:23, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

New "Marvel Television"

[1] [2] Things just got trickier. Unlike Marvel Animation (which ended with no clear resolution), we don't have a separate article for the "new" Marvel Television. Unless such an article is created (not fan of this idea though), the old Marvel Television is the primary topic, but a redirect should be created for the new branding/division or Marvel Studios links should be piped as [[Marvel Studios|Marvel Television]]. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think a separate article should be made either, and I will note I don't think we know if this is an actual new unit or if it is just Marvel Studios repurposing the name as a production banner that has been a possibility since it was folded years ago. We should probably add about the name being repurposed by Marvel Studios in the Marvel Television#Studios label section which would also point to the Marvel Studios article. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:08, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
This should definitely be treated like Marvel Studios reclaiming the "Marvel Television" brand and not the old Marvel Television entity returning. I think we just need to say "As of X, Marvel Studios began using the name Marvel Television with its series projects" or something like that. Any links should go to the Marvel Studios page rather than the Marvel Television page. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I guess the thing that will be the most tricky will be what to do with section headers and List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors. Personally, I would say "do nothing" and clarify through hatnotes. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I concur. For years, Marvel Television has referred to the company launched in 2010 and their series. I don't think anything needs to be changed drastically anytime soon, given the WP:RECENTISM of it all. Trailblazer101 (talk) Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Agreed. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:41, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I have created two DABs to help aid in navigation: Marvel Television (disambiguation) and Marvel Animation (disambiguation). Given there was no real contention to one for the Animation being made, I also felt it best to have one for the TV side. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
If this ends up being the same as X-Men '97, which says "Marvel Animation" in the logo but "Marvel Studios" in the main credits, then we could go with "produced by Marvel Studios as Marvel Television" or "produced by Marvel Studios' Marvel Television" or something like that. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I think that we could go with something to the effect of "produced by the Marvel Television label of Marvel Studios" or "by Marvel Studios via the Marvel Television label" if this ends up being the case. Trailblazer101 (talk) 01:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I have tried out some updated wording at X-Men '97: "produced by Marvel Studios, via its Marvel Animation label". Thoughts? I'm also questioning whether we should be listing "Marvel Animation" as the production company in the infobox. I've just watched through the X-Men '97 credits and it only lists Marvel Studios all the way through, including in the final logo which is what we usually base production company credits on. The only place that "Marvel Animation" is used is in the opening logo, so it feels to me that we should be treating "Marvel Animation" as a division of Marvel Studios whose name is used for marketing purposes rather than as a separate production studio. The same will probably apply for new series with the "Marvel Television" label. - adamstom97 (talk) 12:34, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I like that approach. It does seem increasingly likely that “Marvel Animation” and “Marvel Television” are labels. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Also, just in case anyone was wondering, I found a proper version of the logo and uploaded it to Commons here. I do also want to re-address the other Marvel Television logo that has been used in the past. I know it was removed, despite being on Commons, because it wasn't clear if it was used in any official capacity.
However, in the name of providing a visual distinction between the two, I did a little digging and found that while that Commons file was uploaded in June 2016 without an immediately clear point of origin, I did find the earliest use of this is in a ComicBook article about Marvel TV's SDCC schedule from June 2015, leading me to believe it was sent to the site via a press release. It has also been used by IGN, CBR in 2018, and in 2019 by CBR again and Gizmodo.
There's also this logo, which has its earliest use dating back to Sep. 2017 from Flickering Myth, or a more standard logo used for the auctions here, here, and here. I'm just putting this all here to see what we want to do (if anything) now that there are two different subjects of this name and it may be better to have more distinct visual identification for them. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:01, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
It's tricky to tell since they only used the standard "Marvel" logo for the TV show logos, but either of those would help differentiate from the Marvel Studios logo style. - adamstom97 (talk) 11:29, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Winderbaum says in this interview that "Marvel Studios, Marvel Television, Marvel Animation, even Marvel Spotlight" are different brand labels that are being used to indicate that audiences don't need to watch everything Marvel produces, so I think we are right to treat Marvel Animation and Marvel Television similarly to the Marvel Spotlight banner and still use Marvel Studios as the actual production company behind each project. - adamstom97 (talk) 13:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Adding on to this is an interview with Feige confirming that Marvel Television and Animation still come under Marvel Studios in a way that the old Marvel Television didn't. - adamstom97 (talk) 17:05, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Added that to the Marvel Television draft here and Animation article here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:49, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Production draft for Doomsday and Secret Wars

A while back I started a draft for a production article for what was then Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, but it was obviously far too early to know if it would be necessary. Now, I'm wondering if it is worth starting a new draft now that it appears the movies are closely tied together, with Doomsday sounding like it is essentially a set up for Secret Wars/Doom, characters, and obviously the Russos, Stephen McFeely/Michael Waldron, and Alan Silvestri all tied to both. Or is it still too early to know if it is necessary?

I'm not sure what the deciding factor for IW/Endgame's production article originally was, unless it was made around the time when they were Infinity War part 1 and 2. Which is why I figured I'd bring this up here before committing to starting the draft. -- ZooBlazer 03:57, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

The contents of that prior draft were moved to RebelYasha's sandbox here, where they have done more work on it. I know from some Production Weekly listings that they will film back-to-back with a planned 4-month break in-between those scheduled shoots, though I'm not sure if there is enough production information for the both of them to warrant reviving this draft anytime soon. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Ah, I didn't know RebelYasha had info put together already. -- ZooBlazer 04:29, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
I believe we created the IW/Endgame production article when those two films were being produced back-to-back. They ended up not being quite as joined as we thought, but it always made sense to keep the combined production article. It looks like a similar situation could be happening here, and this article talks about filming Doomsday/SW together in some form, but I don't know if that is enough to go ahead with a combined production article just yet. At the moment there is a lot of shared content between the two articles, but that won't necessarily always be the case. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:57, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
I actually think that Avengers: The Kang Dynasty should be its own article. It is highly notable as a cancelled project, with a substantial history that is or will be only tertiary to Avengers: Doomsday. BD2412 T 18:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
It would be a pretty short article considering all the details for it fit in the existing development section at Draft:Avengers: Doomsday. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, I think just keeping the info on the Doomsday article is fine. -- ZooBlazer 18:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
I had a feeling that a dual production article could also be helpful again, if it comes out that there is a concerted overlap between the two and hopes to do similar "back-to-back" filming as with IW and Endgame. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:20, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Compare Gambit (unproduced film). BD2412 T 21:49, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Except in this case some of the plot points probably still carry over to Doomsday, so it isn't a fully unproduced movie like Gambit. -- ZooBlazer 22:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Agreed. Should a joint production document get created, I feel the Kang Dynasty development stuff should largely stay at that article, and then the "split"/concise summary start from July 2024 on with the announce of the shift to it becoming Doomsday and the Russos joining. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:43, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I have put together an updated draft of this potential article in my sandbox, User:Adamstom.97/sandbox/4, which is in sync with the two drafts that we currently have. It is mostly just the Doomsday draft with a few missing things from the Secret Wars draft added in, and I gave it all a c/e to make sure it still flows. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:53, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm wondering if we greatly condense the "Announcement as The Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars" and "Firing of Jonathan Majors and creative shifts" sections for this production article into the "Background" section, so the vast majority of it stays on the Doomsday article (where it's largely most applicable) and then start the "true" unification with the Russos stuff under "New work as Doomsday and Secret Wars". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Ahh I misunderstood your last comment, but I think I'm happy with us doing that. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:00, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Looking good! Much better than what I had. -- ZooBlazer 20:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
I like the work done on this! Nice job. I also agree with Favre's comments, considering we will receive much more production information on the current iterations. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Scarlett Johansson-produced series

Is what's currently known about this project enough to warrant a draft? Feige and Johansson both confirmed its existence, with Feige reiterating in November 2023 that it's still being developed, and a Marvel Studios executive recently revealing on their LinkedIn profile that it's a series. There's also been speculation that it's centered around the character Blonde Phantom, which has been picked up by reliable sources: 1, 2. Aldwiki1 (talk) 00:46, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

There is information about this project mentioned at List of Marvel Cinematic Universe films#Other, though some of the other information on this being a series could be beneficial. In spite of that, LinkedIn is not considered a reliable source as it is user-generated content, and I do not think we should base a whole draft off of speculation and rumors as those can easily fall apart (see the Cap 4 rumors for instance). I will note for transparency that I have noted about this rumored series in my newsletter, though I do not think we have enough to go off of to verify this for a draft at this time. Trailblazer101 (talk) 01:03, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Member of Avengers

Hello everybody! There is currently a discussion going on and it is about Okoye's inclusion in the Avengers. It is proposed again and the discussion can be found here: Addition of Okoye in the team roster. Crampsteed (talk) 03:35, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Deadpool & Wolverine character cameos photo

Would the photo in this article (image directly) be useful in any of our article? Not the Deadpool and Wolverine article, but I figured maybe something like the Multiverse page or the like? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:59, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

If it is used, the Multiverse article is probably a good option, or maybe the Phase Five article as a less good option. -- ZooBlazer 23:01, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
I think it could be useful in this article or the Multiverse one should there be enough critical commentary on these cameos. Trailblazer101 (talk) 01:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
I support the inclusion of the image in the Multiverse (Marvel Cinematic Universe) article. Maybe include other images as well, such as images of the Illuminati and Tobey and Andrew's Spider-Men versions, because having one image in the article is kinda awkward. Centcom08 (talk) 03:27, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Don't mean to be too hasty, but we do need to be careful about adding non-free media to this encyclopedia, as non-free material is usually copyrighted, and most should only be done when there is clear critical commentary on the subjects being displayed in the image. We should not just be including any images of these cameos just for the sake of having them, unless there is an encyclopedic rationale to do so. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:43, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
I can see a sub-section of Multiverse (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (that currently does not exist), that talks about "variants" - in universe and also real-world impact (casting, audience reaction, etc.) Which can then have the Deadpool cameos, Spider-Man NWH, Doctor Strange Illuminati, Loki (Void Lokis and Sylvie), Kangs, Gonnym (talk) 08:25, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
It's a cool photo but I would be hesitant to find a place for it if there is no obvious need, considering it is non-free. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:03, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, why not in the Deadpool and Wolverine article? BD2412 T 18:54, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Probably because most non-free files should be covered by free media when it is available, and we already include some images of these cameo actors in the Deadpool & Wolverine article, though I will note that the images of Stanford and Keen (in addition to the group photo in the "Cast" section) are pending deletion as the main video source is a copyright violation, so we may inevitably want to replace those ones with this, again, if enough critical commentary is given in the article to justify its inclusion. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Yes, it was because we can satisfy providing visual information for these actors appearing with their non-free Commons images. We already have the non-free image of Deadpool and Wolverine for their costumes, so that covers those two. Laura, Blade, and Elektra all are returning characters with somewhat similar costumes so we aren't getting any benefit from seeing those. And since Gambit is the only new one, that would be the only benefit, but an image of Tatum as the character has been added to Gambit (unproduced film). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Reed Richards draft deleted

Just got the notice that Draft:Reed Richards (Marvel Cinematic Universe) was deleted (over six months since it has been worked on). If you'd like to restore it, you can make a request at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion/G13 ("I would like to request the undeletion of this draft deleted under CSD G13" etc). Sariel Xilo (talk) 00:58, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

WandaVision trilogy

From THR's new Ultron article: The series is meant to be the third part of a trilogy that started with Wandavision and continues in Agatha All Along. This feels like something to note in all three articles but I was wondering what others thought about that and potential formatting. - adamstom97 (talk) 17:42, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I concur that it should be mentioned in all three. I think it may work best in either the Development and/or Writing sections, and then maybe also in the Release sections right after the Phase information. For the wording, I was thinking something along the lines of:
WandaVision begins a trilogy of series that is followed by its spin-off series Agatha All Along and an untitled Vision series - WandaVision
Agatha All Along is a spin-off from WandaVision and the second part in its trilogy of series that will conclude with an untitled Vision series - Agatha All Along
The untitled Vision series is the third part in (or "the conclusion of") a trilogy of series following WandaVision and Agatha All Along - Vision
I'm not set on any of this wording, though I think it is notable to mention that the latter two series are spin-offs of WV and that that is why they are a trilogy. We could either stick with THR's use of "part" or go with "installment" if more appropriate here, though I think including this in the Release section and one of the others (plus WV's Future" section) is necessary/useful. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:05, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Repeated draft submissions and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of multiverse worlds (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Recently, User:(a)nnihilation97 has been repeatedly submitting character drafts that do not meet the WP:MCUCHARACTERS or WP:GNG criteria, which I have reverted. They also moved List of multiverse worlds (Marvel Cinematic Universe) to the mainspace without any discussion among the taskforce, and much of the contents are a WP:CONTENTFORK of Multiverse (Marvel Cinematic Universe) with no sources for the many Earth designations listed. I informed them of the nature of the edits at User talk:(a)nnihilation97#MCU Character Drafts, although they did not seem receptive to the MCU taskforce consensus per their comments there. Any comments at the AfD and their talk would be beneficial. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:00, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

First of all I wasn't submitting random characters, these were strong supporting characters such as Pepper Potts, Wilson Fisk, Pietro Maximoff and America Chavez whom had important roles in their respective films and series. So I do not understand why Trailblazer101 is being so antagonistic and threatening to block me for submitting draft characters to be published. - (a)nnihilation97 (talk) 21:05, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
I never once said "block". You are clearly ignoring the consensus and guidelines laid out in WP:MCUCHARACTERS. Chavez has only appeared once and is not significant enough for an article. Pietro only appeared twice, one was a brief cameo and also not that notable. Pepper and Fisk could be notable, but their articles have not been crafted in a way to support WP:GNG guidlines of content from the main character's articles being split into a new one. There are procedures to follow in getting a draft published, and if you are not a major contributor to them or do not prove notability, that is a problem, especially when doing so en masse. Some drafts, like Chavez's, were already denied before, and not making any improvements before resubmitting is disruptive and a waste of everyone's time if you refuse to put in the work. Also, not everything on Wikipedia needs an article. This is not a fan wiki. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
You were insinuating a block especially how you were phrasing the words, then delete the Pietro draft especially knowing it will never be published as an article on this site. Now that's wasting everyone's time for making that draft. But everything you post is ok though. (a)nnihilation97 (talk) 21:24, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
Drafts that are not edited for a period of six months are automatically deleted per WP:G13, which has happened for many character drafts over time. I have not referred to you being block. This discussion is so you and others are aware of how the MCU taskforce works in handling these character articles. It is simple. Follow the guidelines and consensus, and if you think a draft should be in the mainspace, check to see if it needs further work and/or meets the criteria. If not, work on getting it there and then reach out here to see if it meets it then. Please WP:Assume good faith, as I am not trying to get you blocked. I am merely raising concerns of your inability to follow consensus and guidelines. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:27, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
I already commented at the AfD, but I’ll paraphrase here: I did not give Annihilation permission to publish this given I was still working on it and had no plans to move until I was certain it was ready. The page was meant to serve as the MCU’s version of the List of DC Multiverse worlds article, which has much of the same underlyings that are claimed within the AfD. Next time, please ask me if you want to publish it, because as the person who’s spent a long time carefully working this out, it feels like undermining my goal here. --MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 21:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
Part of the reason I brought this discussion up here is because annihilation frequently does not consult fellow taskforce participants before moving drafts unilaterally, which is the primary concern here. I have no problem with Mario's work being moved to their sandbox or back to draftspace, though. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:55, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Blade (New Line franchise character)#Requested move 27 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Blade (New Line franchise character)#Requested move 27 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:42, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

"Television episodes set in x" categories

Recently User:JCWoodberry1234 has been adding "Television episodes set in x" categories to episode articles. That's fine as long as the article itself mentions in the plot section that the episode takes place there. If the article does not mention it (WP:CATV), either the category should be removed, or the plot section updated. Gonnym (talk) 14:47, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Infobox of miniseries, should number of seasons be 1

Should the infobox of a miniseries have its number of seasons be included in its infobox as 1? The original two MCU miniseries WandaVision and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier have it, but the later ones have it as includeonly Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, Secret Invasion, Echo, Agatha All Along. I edited last month the original two miniseries to match the majority but reverted by @Gonnym: so seeking thoughts here. Indagate (talk) 14:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes. There is no way a casual reader will know how many seasons a show has (especially those that aren't disambiguated) without reading this information. Not all of our readers (read as "most") are hardcore fans and don't follow the news. The infobox is designed to give a very fast overview of the series. This is also why we do use the season number in the series overview. Gonnym (talk) 15:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
I do not have a strong opinion about this, though I will say in the name of keeping these articles consistent and the contents easily accessible for our readers, then displaying the singular season would be beneficial to casual readers. Bear in mind that the infoboxes do not currently identify if the series is long-form or if it is a miniseries. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Possible articles from draft space

I think there are some possible articles that are seemingly completed or are close to being completed in draft space. Namely, Draft:Pepper Potts (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (needs consensus for split out), Draft:What If... the Avengers Assembled in 1602? (needs more in reception), Draft:Ultron (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (maybe a flesh out of alternate universe information), and Draft:Darcy Lewis (reception and alternate universe information needs to be fleshed out). We could probably also add more articles on top of those as well. (Oinkers42) (talk) 04:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The What If episode I think could be a beneficial inclusion once that (and other drafts for that series) get more expansion. As for the character drafts, I am not convinced that the MCU Pepper Potts is a notable or necessary inclusion for the mainspace. That one does not have much real-world discussion of this iteration of the character and the bulk of the article is pure in-universe details plus some characterization and early background details, which raises WP:FANCRUFT concerns for me. I do not think every iteration of an MCU character necessarily needs an article just because they meet the criteria we have established for this task force. For Ultron (another draft which has been repeatedly rejected, like Potts), that also needs a significant expansion with more real-world information and would likely not become as useful in the mainspace until well after Vision Quest releases. The Darcy Lewis draft still needs more expansion, which was determined earlier this year, before it is remotely ready for a move, as well. While I know these MCU articles are sought after, there is a standard to be set in what can vs. what should be brought over into the mainspace, and those three do not meet basic criteria from what I can tell. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The alternate Beast

Hi. I just saw in a couple of articles that the Beast from The Marvels was an alternate version of the Beast from the X-Men movies. Couldn't find any approval in the sources there. Or in any source in the Internet. Is there any proof that there is no chance at all that Monica isn't in the Fox Universe? Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 00:04, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there proof that she is? The ONUS is always on the person looking to prove something. Gonnym (talk) 09:37, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
> Is there proof that she is?
Of course not, that's why we can't say either of these things. Neither "it's the same version" not "it's an alternate version". Maximum we can say is "a version of Beast", which can fit both cases. IKhitron (talk) 10:21, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
I have no problem with that, but saying "a version" basically means "a different version" in this context. Gonnym (talk) 10:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
I don't think so, but no problem. Could you find a good wording? Maybe "some version" or something, don't know. IKhitron (talk) 10:29, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Who's Gonna Take the Weight?

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Who's Gonna Take the Weight?, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Gonnym (talk) 10:30, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Jeff Sneider

There is a discussion about whether Sneider should be considered a reliable source at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/noticeboard#Jeff Sneider / The InSneider which impacts multiple articles within the scope of this WikiProject. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Bad images

Images like File:Agatha Harkness Agatha All Along Still Episode Maiden Mother Crone.png aren't helpful and are purely cosmetic trivia. If there isn't an official poster, than no image is better than these. Gonnym (talk) 12:00, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

The user who has created the new Agatha All Along episode articles is new and still learning the ropes. They uploaded several non-free images that are used across those articles which should all likely be removed and deleted as there is not enough justification for their inclusion (excluding the posters). - adamstom97 (talk) 14:17, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
I agree that those images ought to be replaced with the official posters. We should not just have non-free images just for the sake of having them. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:19, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Doctor Strange (2016 film) about a potential factual error

I have initiated a discussion at Talk:Doctor Strange (2016 film)#Potential factual error and proposal for rewriting the article regarding a potential factual error about the film's filming location and proposed a rewrite of the article. I would appreciate feedback from those who participated in this WikiProject. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 14:19, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Production draft for Doomsday and Secret Wars 2.0

This was previously discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Marvel Cinematic Universe task force/Archive 4#Production draft for Doomsday and Secret Wars but we were unsure if it would make sense to create a "Production of Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars" article. I have since come to feel that we definitely should be making this split due to the large amount of shared content between Avengers: Doomsday and Draft:Avengers: Secret Wars, and I think we should make the split sooner than later considering the large amount of editing that has started with production on Doomsday beginning this week. For reference, Production of Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame was moved to the mainspace months before Infinity War started filming, and we have a lot more content than that article had at the time.

My proposal is to move the contents of my sandbox into the mainspace as Production of Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars, and then cut down the production sections for Doomsday and Secret Wars to look something like these mocked-up examples. Both film articles would still have a high-level summary of the development history and key details that are specific to the relevant film, just as is done at Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame, but the bulk of the content will be housed at the new production article. Any thoughts, questions, or concerns? - adamstom97 (talk) 19:31, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

can't agree more that we need to summarise the contents of the production on the main articles, and keep the detail all to its own. Fully support this proposition. BarntToust 20:21, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
Fine with me. Makes sense now to go forward with a unified production article again now that things have seemingly been overhauled and are more closely aligned, even if production isn't overlapped or back to back. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:17, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
Given how closely tied the productions of both films seem to be since the Russos and Downey became involved, I support the creation of the dual production article. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
It has been a few days and there has been no opposition here so I am going to be WP:BOLD and make this change. Thanks all, adamstom97 (talk) 11:03, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

I think it's time to promote Draft:Wilson Fisk (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Although the subject is not formally the tentpole character of any specific property, it is clear from both advertising and screentime that he is basically the co-lead character in Daredevil: Born Again, which is now the fourth MCU property that has featured the character, after his substantial role in the original Daredevil series, and appearances of more than passing notice in both Hawkeye and Echo. BD2412 T 00:15, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

There should be more real-world information in that article for the characterization and reception, and is is currently bloated mostly only with plot details, which makes me hesitant to support a move to the mainspace at this time. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:17, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
My conviction on this point is more about the scope of presence of the character than the state of the article, which can indeed improve. BD2412 T 01:57, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
I understand that, but we should not be putting out partially complete articles when they could and should be improved upon simply because they satisfy the established criteria. I have been a stickler when it comes to these in-universe articles because we are not a fan wiki and as an encyclopedia, such articles should include more factual information than fictional details. Enough WP:FANCRUFT has crept into these MCU articles to begin with, though I do agree that it is due time to Fisk's MCU article to be fleshed out and moved sooner rather than later. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:45, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Draft:Yelena Belova (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

This needs a lot of work, but based on all of the early reviews of Thunderbolts*, Belova is basically the central character of the film, and this draft should be readied for mainspace sooner rather than later. BD2412 T 19:01, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

My same stance for character articles remains. As long as this sees significant improvement, I will not stand in the way of the article being moved, but I would caution about moving drafts just because the subject character has become prominent in recent media. Editorial discretion and encyclopedic standards ought to prevail more than in-universe WP:FANCRUFT, which have plagued these articles for years. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:06, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
@Trailblazer101: Well I tend to agree with that, and that is my call to action here, there is also something to be said for the proposition that once the draft is moved to mainspace, readers searching for that title will no longer be redirected to a list article, and may be more likely to expand and improve the separate mainspace article. BD2412 T 22:33, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Recent 2001:XX IP edits

Has anyone else noticed an uptick in edits from an IP that generally starts with 2001:1388:11X followed by a rotating, unsimilar set of characters? These all seem to be doing things such as linking to Pitch (filmmaking) (a big go-to), incorrectly adjusting full stops in quotes against MOS:LQ, and hit or miss production information inclusion. I want to believe these are all one person, but with the hopping IP it feels like it's hard to make a case against them for the (possible) disruption, or to see if they happen to be a SOCK editor. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:46, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

I have noticed an increase in IP activity across various superhero articles. While not all of these have been disruptive, the majority of them have not been that helpful either and stem from not understanding basic formatting practices and a lack of communication that is required. I'm not sure if any report would go far considering it is difficult to track and prevent IPs from being used (which is why I think they shouldn't be allowed to edit in the first place), but articles that are repeatedly targeted could warrant some semi-protection. It may be worth reported repeated offending IPs, but that wouldn't last long. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:06, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
This seems to be a trend across various pop-culture related articles, and many of the changes are based on actual positive edits that are sometimes needed. That means we can't necessarily fully revert the edits and annoyingly have to work through them to figure out what is correct and what isn't. Not being able to nail down who is doing the editing makes it difficult to educate them on better editing in the future. - adamstom97 (talk) 10:47, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
The MOS:LQ issues is becoming a persistent problem. I am wondering if this person is a sock of some past MCU editor. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:19, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Considering the IP master seems to be aware of how to navigate their way through the functionalities of the articles and the site features (ie, being aware of the drafts) and the nature of the persistent edits, I find that to be a rationale suspicion. While it is impossible to know how many different IPs they have (and a CheckUser request would get declined), there may not be much for us to do other than mass requesting semi-protection, but those ted to be rejected for drafts. These edits are not close to vandalism, but the continued disruptive nature of them is becoming tedious to manage. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:31, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
We can look into WP:RANGE if it continues. I think CheckUsers can see global locations and possibly associate it with a sock master? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:10, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Oh, sweet. I think that's worth a look. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:25, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Potential navbox ideas

I created some navboxes for film series that are either a part of the MCU or are connected to it. I wanted some thoughts on if these are a worthwhile idea to keep pursuing in the creation of them

(Oinkers42) (talk) 03:05, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Phase 1-6 intro sections

Kudos to everyone who has worked on the Phase articles! I have a few proposals for their intro sections (for reference: One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six). At the prompting of Trailblazer101 and Adamstom.97, I'm bringing our nascent discussion here. I'm going to list my various suggestions in one bunch; we can certainly split up the ensuing discussions if need be.

Ensure consistency

  1. Move "Phase X is part of the Y Saga" to the lead paragraph. At least some of the Phase articles define "MCU" in the lead graf ("The MCU is the shared universe in which all of the films and series are set") and only at the end of the intro add the phase's place in the MCU—that is, in the Infinity or Multiversa saga. I propose that the lead paragraph say, e.g., "The MCU is the shared universe in which all of the films and series are set; Phase Four, along with Five and Six, make up its "Multiverse Saga" storyline."
  2. Put "the films made $X billion" in the paragraph about the films. This fact appears in various places in the various intros.
  3. Standardize how the intros treat works that are not films or TV series. Some phases group them with the series graf; some through them into the final "kitchen sink" graf.

More efficiently convey information

  1. Strive to mention each work only once in the intro. The intro to Three, for example, mentions Avengers: Endgame four times; Spider-Man: Far From Home and Captain America: Civil War three times; and Spider-Man: Homecoming, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Avengers: Infinity War twice apiece. Surely we can be defter and less repetitious.
  2. Consider not listing producers in the intro. Perhaps "Kevin Feige produced all the films" is significant enough to belong in the intro, but I'm not convinced all the other producers need to be. In several of the Phase articles, the non-Feige producers named in the intro do not appear elsewhere in the article; if they're not important enough for downpage mention, they certainly don't belong in the lead section. And if they are mentioned downpage—and some Phase articles also mention them in the infobox—do they need to be in the intro as well? Trailblazer101 argues that some producers are so important to the Phase that they belong in the intro; I'd like to hear what others think.
  3. Consider not listing stars in the intro. While we're at it, do we need to list the stars and their roles in the intro? After all, they're all enumerated in the work's downpage section. And most of the roles appear in the works' names anyway. What's the argument for including such details in a Phase intro?

I have a few other ideas, but that's certainly enough to get us started. Thanks. PRRfan (talk) 03:19, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

I'm happy to discuss adjusting how we approach the leads for each article, as long as we come to a consensus for a consistent approach. Part of the problem is that the current format was established for Phases One and Two, which are much simpler than the other phases. I don't have a problem with moving the storyline part into the first paragraph. The thing with the box office is I think it does make sense where it is for Phases One, Two, and Three because it is with general reception information, I moved it to the film paragraph for the other phases because it doesn't apply to television. I'm not sure what you mean by your third point, as all the leads are consistent already: films and series/specials get their own paragraphs and anything else is listed in the last paragraph after the reception info. I don't think we should restrict ourselves to only mentioning each film once if that means cramming a bunch of information into a list. Better to settle on what information we want to include and then work out how best to represent it. We have consistently mentioned the producers at the list of films so I think we would need wider consensus to stop mentioning them, plus all the producers are definitely listed in the body of the article. I don't agree with removing actors from the lead, for many readers they are going to be the most noteworthy people involved in the franchise. I think you may misunderstand what the lead is for if you are confused why we are mentioning details that are already covered by the rest of the article. The lead is a summary of the article and should mention details from most, if not all, sections. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:52, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
Thanks. So we have (initial) consensus on 1: moving "Phase X is part of the Y Saga" to the lead paragraph. Yay!
2: As you note, the film-box-office total appears in the kitchen-sink graf in One, Two, and Three; and in the film graf in Four and Five (and in Six?). I'd argue that consistency wants it to be in the film graf.
3. One, Two, and Three put nonfilm, nonseries works in the kitchen-sink graf; Four puts the TV specials in the series graf and the Groot shorts in the kitchen-sink graf; Five keeps the Groots in the KS graf. Perhaps we want to make the "TV series" graf the "non-film" graf? Or if we are making the series graf the "series/specials" graf, then a topic sentence is needed to convey that.
4. Totally agree: figure out what we want in the intro, then go from there.
Stars: Your argument for keeping stars makes sense, if indeed readers come to the Phase articles primarily wanting to know "who's in them?"; I suppose we have no way to really know. Bonus topic: the "most appearances" stat is in the films graf in One, Two, and Three; and in the kitchen-sink graf in Four and Five. Seems like it ought to consistently be in the KS graf.
Finally, producers and the lead: yes, of course, the intros include details from the articles, but, of course, they do not include all of the details, so we must pick and choose which ones are crucial to understanding the topic and which ones are not. The fact that, say, Nate Moore appears in the intro to Five, but not in its section about CA:BNW, except in an omnibus film-detail table, seems to suggest that he need not appear in the intro. And yes, let's see if we can get wider consensus for removing from the intro what still seem to me to be second-tier and arbitrarily chosen details about a Phase. PRRfan (talk) 16:43, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
2) Phases One, Two, and Three do not have a film paragraph and a "kitchen-sink" paragraph, they have film details spread across all three paragraphs since those articles are primarily about films. Phases Four, Five, and Six do have a dedicated film paragraph because they are also about TV series/specials. That could change if others feel we should take consistency across the phase articles even further.
3) Phases One, Two, and Three focus on the films with a mention of other media in the last paragraph. Phases Four, Five, and Six focus on the films and series/specials with a mention of other media in the last paragraph. I still do not see the problem you have with this point. - adamstom97 (talk) 12:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

The Illuminerdi source reliability

hi all! i noticed the website The Illuminerdi [3] was listed as unreliable by this wikiproject. can i ask what the rationale for this is as i couldn't find any discussion. does it extend to all content, including interviews, or is it because the site contains other unreliable content, listicles etc.? i'm entirely unfamiliar with it, but the site appears to be the source of an interview i wish to include in a film article not directly related to this project. many thanks!--Plifal (talk) 11:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

@Plifal: I just noticed your message and wanted to let you know that The Illuminerdi is listed as unreliable specifically because it includes rumors and unverifiable reports, but any interviews exclusive to the site may be used as they are the original source of said interviews. I hope this helps! — Trailblazer101🔥 (discuss · contribs) 23:30, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
@Trailblazer101, many thanks, appreciate your work as always!--Plifal (talk) 23:41, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
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