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Administrators: Clear all reports

Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

... that a community mural inspired by John Jonik's pet duck was destroyed by a cleanup crew who mistook it for graffiti: this isn't quite right: it was graffiti (writing/painting on walls, generally public, generally without permission -- which isn't necessarily unartistic or considered a bad thing). According to the article, the crew mistook it for a different piece of graffiti, in a different place, which they were instructed to clean up. Not sure immediately how to fix this: "accidentally destroyed by a cleanup crew sent to whitewash a different site?" Pinging those involved in the nomination: @Viriditas and Cat's Tuxedo: any thoughts? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:00, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

The mural was not graffiti. It was a known community mural that had been accepted by the entire community for more than a decade and had been given permission by officials as the article explains. The explanation that the cleanup crew mistook the known mural for other graffiti was one of many different explanations that emerged over time, as if they were trying to find an adequate explanation that would quiet down the outrage and national news coverage it was getting (the story was syndicated by wire services). There is a larger political issue here that I did not cover because it was tangential to the biography, namely a graffiti removal campaign at a higher government level that was overzealous in its approach. The idea that they mistook a well known mural for another so-called piece of graffiti that they claimed existed was never proven. If you read the larger coverage, it has the appearance of a PR excuse and I didn't cover it. The fact of the matter is that there was a larger graffiti removal campaign at work, and this mural was a victim of it whether another piece was confused with it or not, an explanation that sounds very much like something they made up on the spot. Furthermore, the explanation that they confused it with another did not hold up, as Jonik and others tried to get them to stop removing it and momentarily succeeded, only for the city to tell them that it had to be removed anyway. I was charitable enough to give the other side the benefit of the doubt to mention that the cleanup crew mistook it for graffiti. I did not cover their other ad hoc justifications for the removal because that explanation did not receive consistent coverage across multiple sources and seemed to emerge fully formed when further queries were made. In other words, it's likely BS and I didn't give it coverage because it lacked authenticity. What we do know is that the cleanup crew was given free reign to remove any graffiti they saw and they didn't appear to be familiar with the town's mural they removed, a mural that had permission. Viriditas (talk) 10:18, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

The mural was not graffiti: this is the issue -- I think you're taking "graffiti" (as, frustratingly, some of the sources do) to mean something ugly/unwanted/unartistic. However, it can refer to authorised and commissioned works (for example, the election graffiti of Pompeii), and to works considered artistic (Banksy's work is almost always labelled "graffiti", even by those celebrating it). Mirriam Webster defines it as usually unauthorized writing or drawing on a public surface -- is that not correct here? If we're saying that the making of mural was authorised, that doesn't seem to match the article, since the owner of the wall ordered him to take it down -- he then received retrospective permission not to remove it, but that's a different thing. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:20, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

There's no error. A community mural inspired by John Jonik's pet duck was destroyed by a cleanup crew who mistook it for graffiti. You're arguing that this is an error how? The statement is accurate. SEPTA's clarification that it was an accident caused by a mix-up with another site of a similar name that was scheduled for graffiti removal came out much later and reads like PR. That they added to their story with additional explanations (if you believe it) doesn't change the factual accuracy of the hook, whether they mistook this mural for graffiti here or there. It's the same truth value. Viriditas (talk) 10:35, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

I think it's an error because mistook it for graffiti means that it was not graffiti, and the usual definition of graffiti means that it was graffiti (even if it was beloved, artistic, etc graffiti).

More importantly, perhaps, the article does not state that the team mistook it for graffiti, the hook currently fails WP:DYKHFC that The facts of the hook in the article should be cited no later than the end of the sentence in which they appear.. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:35, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. The mural was not graffiti, it was a known community mural that was accidentally removed by an official graffiti removal project. The current article does indeed state that the team mistook it for graffiti, as do the sources. Some of the sources go into more detail saying it was accidentally removed because the cleanup crew got the location confused. It doesn't matter, as there's no error of any kind. Viriditas (talk) 10:40, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

I'll bow out and let others chip in at this point, as I think we're unlikely to convince each other, but will note that the relevant bit of the article text is The mural lasted for 14 years until a graffiti removal project by SEPTA destroyed it in 1983. This does not state that they mistook it for graffiti -- compare "the garbage men destroyed my car this morning", which does not state that they mistook it for garbage. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

They absolutely mistook it for graffiti as all the sources make clear, whether they were at the wrong station or not. The sources say they mistook a mural for graffiti.[1][2] How are you not understanding this? United Press International: "Workers Destroy Mural by Mistake...instead of blasting grafitti [sic], the proceeded to obliterate the mural...'It was done in error,' a SEPTA spokesman said. "There had been traces of grafitti [sic] in the area, and we sent workers out to quickly remove it. Unfortunately, the artwork this fellow did was also cleaned off.'"[3] Viriditas (talk) 10:50, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

But the article also says, "SEPTA said that the unfortunate incident was an accident caused by a mix-up with another site of a similar name that was scheduled for graffiti removal." Is the concern using Wikipedia's voice in the hook and attribution in the actual article? The article also says, "The group invited Merritt H. Taylor Jr., the president of Red Arrow, to visit the mural for himself, which he did, reversing course and giving it his official approval and re-classifying it as a beautification project." So at least by the time it was destroyed it no longer unauthorized. The cited source gives some additional details about how Jonik was going back after approval to touch up the mural every now and then. The hook seems supported by the sources to me. Perhaps some small changes to the wording in the article would help? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 14:23, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

@UndercoverClassicist & Viriditas: Does this change to the article resolve the concerns? And of course if I introduced some other problem, feel free to revert, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 15:11, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

My reading is the hook is correct. The mural wasn't graffiti which then became regarded as something other than graffiti; it was authorized/legal in the first place. The cleanup crew mistook it for something unauthorized. "Mural" and "graffiti" are often used to distinguish authorized from unauthorized, but the distinction is also articulated in Viriditas's two links just above. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:24, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(August 8)

Monday's FL

(August 4, tomorrow)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

Today's POTD

There's a grammar problem.

"It grows with square stems to 5 to 20 centimetres (2 to 8 inches) in height"

should probably be either

"It grows with square stems from 5 to 20 centimetres (2 to 8 inches) in height"

or simply

"It grows with square stems 5 to 20 centimetres (2 to 8 inches) in height"

ShoneBrooks (talk) 04:21, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

But ShoneBrooks, if what's meant is that after the process of growth, its height ranges from 5 to 20 cm, then it's OK as is. And indeed the article Lamium purpureum tells us that it "grows with square stems to 5–20 centimetres (2–8 in), rarely 40 cm, in height". I'll agree that what's proposed can be misread; so how about something like "With square stems, it reaches 5 to 20 centimetres (2 to 8 inches) in height"? -- Hoary (talk) [an interloper in both main page and in botanical matters] 06:53, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I read the meaning in the same way as Hoary -- some teachers/style guides would advocate for commas around the adverbial phrase (It grows, with square stems, to 5 to 20 centimetres...). However, as we have to 50 to 20 centimetres, there's no ambiguity, so others, particularly in the UK, would avoid the commas (as it's doing the same job as e.g. it grows quickly to 50 to 20 centimetres). A separate tweak might be to go for to between 5 and 20 centimetres, which would avoid the repetition of "to" and perhaps make it more obvious that the first "to" isn't a mistake. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:15, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

Yes, with the additional insight, either option makes sense; "It grows with square stems between 5 to 20 (2 to 8 inches) in height," or "With square stems, it reaches 5 to 20 centimetres (2 to 8 inches) in height." Both seem fine. A simpler construct might be, "Its square stems grow to a height of 5 to 20 centimetres (2 to 8 inches)." -ShoneBrooks (talk) 13:07, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I don't think the last one is quite right, since the stems have other stuff (showing my botanical knowledge...) on the top, and it's the total height that reaches 5–20 cm. However, a thought -- "it has square stems, and grows to between..."? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:23, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

Or make the "to" come later, as in "It grows [...] to a height of 5 to 20 cm?" —Kusma (talk) 21:14, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

This one and UC's 20:23 proposal both work for me. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:29, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

As it's now live, I've implemented Kusma's suggested wording. To me, that clears up any ambiguity around the measurement. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:04, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

General discussion

The Hulkster

Can you update the news section with Hulk Hogan's death news please? Marvelvsdcvscapcomvssega (talk) 07:08, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

It's bogged down at WP:ITN/C mostly with people arguing wrestling is fake and/or Hulk was not "transformative" enough or that his field where he was important is not major enough. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:56, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Let's stop worrying about Hulk, instead, worry about Ozzy Osbourne, his been all over everywhere ⟨⟨BeastBoy-X-Talk!⟩⟩ 00:16, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

It's already been suggested to be added to "In The News" here: Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#(Posted)_RD/Blurb:_Hulk_Hogan. We just need to wait to see how the result of that discussion will go.

He was already in "Recent deaths" a few days ago at least. ApexParagon (talk) 20:49, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Maybe WP shouldn't feature murderers?

Why glorify murderers? Is this truly random? There must be some code, right? Seananony (talk) 08:28, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

I assume that you are referring to the featured article about an assassin of a King of Italy. If you want to categorically prohibit historical figures who killed someone from being featured(like John Wilkes Booth or even Marcus Junius Brutus), you need to participate in the processes that determine what articles appear on the Main Page. 331dot (talk) 08:36, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

@331dot What are the processes? How would I participate? Thanks. Seananony (talk) 08:48, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

Keep in mind that the main point of the Featured Article box(as well as the other sections of the Main Page) is to motivate the improvement of articles. Perhaps the article about Bresci wouldn't have been improved if it was barred from the Main Page. You can express concerns about the TFA process at WT:TFA, but to be honest, I highly doubt proposing a ban like you describe would succeed. 331dot (talk) 08:58, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Today's featured article is not random, but selected from the list of our best articles. —Kusma (talk) 08:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

Featured articles are based on article quality, not the person's quality. Wikipedia isn't glorifying murderers, it's an encyclopedia providing neutral and unbiased accounts of the world. jolielover♥talk 09:33, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

It would a very unencyclopedic reason for exclusion. Genghiz Khan and Blackbeard to be kept as our dirty secrets? DeCausa (talk) 09:46, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

This isn't just murder, it's regicide, a kind of high treason if perpetrated by a subject, which is the case here. This is by the way not the only killing "glorified" in the Main Page. The "On this day" section includes the sack of a populous city by Saracen raiders in 908 and "a four-day massacre" of South Koreans by U.S. forces in 1950. Nxavar (talk) 12:50, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

There have been discussions about the morality of tyrannicide at least since antiquity. I don't see how neutrally mentioning killings is glorifying them. History is not pretty. —Kusma (talk) 18:36, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

The article is certainly written in way that creates affection for the perpetrator. The lead tries to paint his character in positive colors talking about "His experience of being exploited in the workplace as a young weaver" that "News of the Bava Beccaris massacre motivated him", he then "gained the status of a martyr" and " inspired some anarchists to carry out their own acts of propaganda by deed". One could suspect that the choice of this particular article was promoted by the "No Kings" political opposition to Donald Trump. Nxavar (talk) 13:35, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

People who think everything is connected to Donald Trump sometimes come up with far fetched theories. —Kusma (talk) 18:38, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

I concede some of the wording might be adopting his own POV in the Wikipedia voice, when it should instead denote that these are his views and feelings. Thus I've tweaked some of the wording in the article by changing it to be his experience in textiles led to him feeling he was exploited. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:46, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

Lets not WP:CENSOR the main page in this way. You can probably come up with a reason why every Featured Article isn't suitable if you try hard enough. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:25, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

This is a bit like the confusion over Time's Person of the Year awards, where originally it was an attempt to highlight the most impactful person of that year, rather than pass judgments on their achievements. That's why Hitler was named person of the year for 1938, and Stalin for 1939 and 1942. Over time, it shifted to more of a celebration. For WP, Featured Articles only denote that it's well written and passed through a review process. It's not "Today's featured articles on people we morally celebrate as good and kind hearted people" as that would massively narrow the list of historical figures to post, and introduce a highly subjective moral element that we should ignore entirely. We've literally ran nazi officers in the past. We just give people information they can decide what to do with it.

For Gaetano Bresci, the article's date was chosen because it was the 125th anniversary of the event. It was either run it on the event, or the anniversary of his birthday. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:32, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

Feeling distressed by the subject of the Featured Article is completely human. Negative backslash is to be expected now and then. Nxavar (talk) 07:52, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

The question is whether an emotional response warrants a policy or process change. By and large, it does not. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 11:58, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

Broken link

I figured this well get noticed quickly, but it's 10am where I am - the current page (1st August) has the article written as [[SMS Hindenburg|SMS Hindenburg]] as though the code was written in the visual editor. -- NotCharizard ^🗨 00:15, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

Fixed. Just so you know, in the future, these kinds of issues should be raised at Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors instead of here. jlwoodwa (talk) 00:32, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I've checked ahead as far as we are scheduled and I've fixed the one time this might pop up again, and will keep an eye open as we continue to schedule.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:17, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I don't think we want categories on the main page, not even hidden categories, so I added nocat=y to three other uses of {{lang}}.[4] This issue is hard to spot in advance because the category is only added in mainspace. Here is a link showing how Wikipedia:Main Page/Tomorrow will render on Main Page. It would have shown the Hindenburg rendering error yesterday, and if "Show hidden categories" is enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering then it would have shown the hidden category I removed. Should we add the link to {{Main Page toolbox}}? PrimeHunter (talk) 01:39, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

Yes, that sounds like a great idea to me. {{lang}} isn't the only template that adds categories only in mainspace; recently {{m}} caused a similar issue on ITN. jlwoodwa (talk) 01:45, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

It was my understanding that we should avoid using templates in TFA blurbs anyway? Wehwalt (talk) 01:46, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I think lang templates may be a slightly special case, since (I'm told, anyway) they make sure that screen readers pronounce the words correctly -- in the case of replacing a convert template with a plain text of the conversion, there's no trade-off for the (slight?) performance boost of not making the system load the template, but for a lang template there may well be an accessibility cost. Ditto, perhaps, those which explain abbreviations like "circa" -- where we gain performance, we lose accessibility/comprehensibility. I know there's been previous discussions that I haven't been in, so apologies if I'm just retreading old ground. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 18:31, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I'm not certain. I've removed several from upcoming TFAs including the one you asked me about. Since it's been some time since we've had a discussion on this, can someone more technical than me make it clearer what templates we should be avoiding in TFA blurbs and which to leave alone? Wehwalt (talk) 18:40, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! I was confused about where to raise it so just did my best chance at the time. Good to know in future though. -- NotCharizard ^🗨 03:11, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I have a small amount,

of a Gifted Monetary Fund,  to Wikipedia, from my Bank Account, every month since 2023. 
  I am retired; a former Art Conservator in my area.
  And live on Very little revenue.  I just wanted you to know; I give to Wikipedia, without assessing this  to my annual Taxes. 
My way of saying-
“ Thank you, to Wikipedia “ for your service of Information. 
  Happy Summer, 
   Kindly, artrestore9 Artrestore9 (talk) 20:31, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Supporting Wikipedia with a Monthly Donation

Supporting Wikipedia with a Monthly Donation. Not tax on my 1040 Taxes Artrestore9 (talk) 20:33, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for donating. This isn’t the right place to comment about that, Artrestore9; this place is for discussing the main page (or home page). Are you ok if we move this comment to your user page? Schwede66 20:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)