Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Veiqia/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 1 April 2025 [1].

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Veiqia

Nominator(s): Lajmmoore (talk) 20:03, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

This article is about a female tattooing pratice from Fiji. It is my first FAC nomination Lajmmoore (talk) 20:03, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Comments by Llewee

Very interesting article--Llewee (talk) 23:56, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

• The terms "girl" "woman" and "young woman" seem to be used quite interchangeably. I would suggest adding "or adolescent girls"

after "women" in the first line. Throughout the article, try to use the term "girl" or "adolescent girl" when referring to tattooing at the point of puberty and "woman" when referring to tatooing at a later stage or its significance later in life. At points where the age being referred to is unclear try to choose a consistent form of words.

• I've altered the use girl to young woman (LM)

• Quotations (e.g "the idea of marriage with an untattooed woman filled him with disgust") should be followed by an immediate citation.

• done (LM)

• "the pelvic areas due to be tattooed were rested for three days beforehand" - I think this could be clarified a bit more; did the woman rest?

• added some more details (LM)

• "adze" - I think this an obscure enough term to link.

• done (LM)

• "Indeed the woman might have been unable to find a husband to marry her" - I would suggest changing "husband" to "man" or getting rid of "to marry her".

• done (LM)

• "By 1874 Fiji was part of the British Empire," - Link Colony of Fiji

• done

Thanks very much for these suggestions Llewee, I've addressed them Lajmmoore (talk) 21:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Support, apologies for my slowness--Llewee (talk) 13:47, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• done (16/2/25 - LM)

• File:Ra_enge,_Fijian_noblewoman,_tattoed_with_veiqia_and_qia_gusu.png needs a US tag

• done (LM)

• When and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

• In terms of first publication, the work was created in 1877 by Kleinschmidt, and the earliest possible publication I can find is in this journal published in Fiji by the Fiji Museum. However, I can't find a way to access it, to be sure: Kleinschmidt, Theodor. "Theodor Kleinschmidt's Notes on the Hill Tribes of Viti Levu, 1877-1878'." Domodomo 2.4 (1984): 146-191. This website also uses them, and list the same article as a generic source. I looked at this Commons article on Fiji, which suggests works are in the public domain author's death plus 50, but would welcome a second opinion - I couldn't tell if this was from creation of work, or publication. I added the PD-Fiji tag for now Lajmmoore (talk) 08:15, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

• also see below Lajmmoore (talk) 08:20, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

• File:Veiqia_design.png: when and where was this first published?

• I think this falls under PD-US-unpublished, as it is an anonymous work created pre-1905 - I've updated the tag on Commons (LM)

• Ditto File:Veiqia_-_female_tattoing_in_Fiji.jpg

• created by Theodore Kleinschmidt (d.1881), it's unclear to me if it was published prior to 1930, this article reporduces it and states Courtesy of Fiji Museum (LM)

• File:Veiqia_design_(complete).png

• I think this falls under PD-US-unpublished, as it is an anonymous work created pre-1905 - I've updated the tag on Commons (LM)

• File:Nundua,_Fijian_widowed,_tattooed_with_veqia_and_qia_gusu.png

• created by Theodore Kleinschmidt (d.1881), it's unclear to me if it was published prior to 1930 (LM)

• Can the current tagging be verified? If no, is there alternative tagging that can? `Nikkimaria (talk)

• I added the PD-Fiji tag, which I now see explcitly says "it is a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work and 50 years have passed since the end of the calendar year in which the author died" (Kleinschmidt died in 1881) Lajmmoore (talk) 08:20, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

• File:Laniana_and_a_map_of_her_back_tattoos,_1875-1876.png

• According to the volume This is not a grass skirt it's "Laniana. Drawing by Baron von Hügel, 1875‑76. MAA_VH1.5.6_ AVH_1921, MAA Archives. Courtesy of the Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, University of Cambridge." I do not know if it has been published elsewhere. (LM)

• This needs a US tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

done Lajmmoore (talk) 08:21, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

• File:Unknown_Fijian_woman_with_qia_gusu_(mouth_tattoos),_Vanua_Levu,_1910-12.png: when and where was this first published and what is the author's date of death?

• I think I made a mistake with this, I don't know where and when it was first published, by the author Arthur Maurice Hocart died in 1939, so I think it might still be within sopyright (LM)

• Is there another reason it might be PD, or should it be removed? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

I'd welcome clarification for it under the US regulations, but I think according to this article - photographs in Fiji are PD 50 years after production. I've added the PD-Fiji tag. Lajmmoore (talk) 08:25, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

• The problem you're going to run into with all of these is that Commons requires images to be PD in both the country of origin and the US, and the pre-1930 tag is for the US rather than Fijian status. So the PD-Fiji tag is fine, but it doesn't fix the problem of not knowing about publication. This chart outlines some of the common US taggings but as you'll see they mostly rely on being able to identify that. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:16, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

  Thanks very much @Nikkimaria that chart is so useful - it's the first time I've seen it. I've ordered this Kleinschmidt, Theodor. "Theodor Kleinschmidt's Notes on the Hill Tribes of Viti Levu, 1877-1878'." Domodomo 2.4 (1984): 146-191. through document supply, and hopefully it will say whether that's the first publication or not. Hopefully it will arrive soon and that will help with this issue. Lajmmoore (talk) 14:37, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

  Hi @Nikkimaria so I received the above article, which was a translation of this, which in turn was based on a 1961 book chapter (here). I can't find it online, but have ordered it from the library, hopefully I should have it soon and can verify (or not) dates o first publication. Lajmmoore (talk) 16:17, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

  Just to update this, the whole book can't be requested but I should have a scan of the relevant chapter (& hopefully any plates and their information shortly. I think the only previous publication about Kleinschmidt was this 1882 profile, so the 1961 work *should* be the first publication of the images (but that's ofc dependent on the information within it) Lajmmoore (talk) 17:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

  Just leaving a note that looking at the book is the one outstanding thing, and I should be able to do that this weekend Lajmmoore (talk) 22:37, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

  The relevant chapter was supplied, but the library that sent it did not include the plates with the illustrations, only the text (despite me saying how important the plates might be). I've put in a new request @Nikkimaria but it might be a few more days. Lajmmoore (talk) 22:13, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

• File:Samoan_tatau_-_tattooing_circa_1895_-_photo_Thomas_Andrew.jpg: source link is dead; when and where was this first published?

• I replaced the souce link (here), and I don't know when/where it was first published by Te Papa states it doesn't have restrictions (LM)

• The NZ status is not at issue, but can US status be verified? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Please could you advise on how to verify the PD-US, or I can take this image out (as has been queried elsewhere) Lajmmoore (talk) 08:31, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Nikkimaria (talk) 05:18, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

• Thanks very much for the comments Nikkimaria, I've added what I have been able to finn out Lajmmoore (talk) 22:39, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

  Just making a note that I'll address these points this evening @Nikkimaria Lajmmoore (talk) 15:40, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

  I've looked at the points raised @Nikkimaria, many thanks Lajmmoore (talk) 08:42, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

I've made a table to try and sort the PD-US issues out, but with honesty, I have got a bit confused by it all. Table is here, if you could take a look Nikkimaria I'd be realy grateful:

Commons file	Artist and date of death	Date first published	Source	Country of publication & copyright terms	? USA Commons copyright tag (I'd appreciate help with using this chart)	Nikkimaria's comments
Ra enge, Fijian noblewoman, tattoed with veiqia and qia gusu.png	Theodore Kleinschmidt Died, 1881	1961	Herbert Tischner: „Beiträge zur Ethnographie des alten Viti Levu und Vanua Levu nach unveröffentlichten Notizen und Zeichnungen Theodor Kleinschmidts aus den Jahren 1875–1878“. In: Beiträge zur Völkerforschung: Hans Damm zum 65. Geburtstag. Akademie-Verlag, Berlin 1961, S. 665–681.	Germany Life of author, plus 70 years	? PD-1996	PD-1996 is correct assuming the publication did not comply with US formalities.
Veiqia design.png	Not definitely known, but from the collection of Anatole von Hügel, died 1928	2019	Jacobs, Karen. This Is Not a Grass Skirt : On Fibre Skirts (liku) and Female Tattooing (veiqia) in Nineteenth Century Fiji, Sidestone Press, 2019. p.141	UK	Is anonymous works UK relevant here?	Is the creation date known? If so and this was not published before 2003, PD-US-unpublished may apply
Veiqia - female tattoing in Fiji.jpg	Theodore Kleinschmidt Died, 1881	1961	Herbert Tischner: „Beiträge zur Ethnographie des alten Viti Levu und Vanua Levu nach unveröffentlichten Notizen und Zeichnungen Theodor Kleinschmidts aus den Jahren 1875–1878“. In: Beiträge zur Völkerforschung: Hans Damm zum 65. Geburtstag. Akademie-Verlag, Berlin 1961, S. 665–681.	Germany Life of author, plus 70 years	? PD-1996	PD-1996 is correct assuming the publication did not comply with US formalities.
Veiqia design (complete).png	Not definitely known, but from the collection of Anatole von Hügel, died 1928	2019	Jacobs, Karen. This Is Not a Grass Skirt : On Fibre Skirts (liku) and Female Tattooing (veiqia) in Nineteenth Century Fiji, Sidestone Press, 2019. p.141	UK	Is anonymous works UK relevant here?	Is the creation date known? If so and this was not published before 2003, PD-US-unpublished may apply
Unknown Fijian woman with qia gusu (mouth tattoos), Vanua Levu, 1910-12.png	Arthur Maurice Hocart, died 1939	2019	Jacobs, Karen. This Is Not a Grass Skirt : On Fibre Skirts (liku) and Female Tattooing (veiqia) in Nineteenth Century Fiji, Sidestone Press, 2019. p.51	UK Life of author, plus 70 years	?	PD-US-unpublished
Samoan tatau - tattooing circa 1895 - photo Thomas Andrew.jpg	Thomas Andrew (1855-1939)		It's used in this 2016 publication from NZ - I can't find earlier. It's not in this 2000 volume and I don't think there is much earlier published on him. However he did photograph so that he could sell the images - is that a form of publication?	Archive is in NZ, so author life plus 50 years	?	If the images were sold that would count as publication - is it known when that happened? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:25, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
Nundua, Fijian widowed, tattooed with veqia and qia gusu.png	Theodore Kleinschmidt Died, 1881	1961	Herbert Tischner: „Beiträge zur Ethnographie des alten Viti Levu und Vanua Levu nach unveröffentlichten Notizen und Zeichnungen Theodor Kleinschmidts aus den Jahren 1875–1878“. In: Beiträge zur Völkerforschung: Hans Damm zum 65. Geburtstag. Akademie-Verlag, Berlin 1961, S. 665–681.	Germany Life of author, plus 70 years	? PD-1996	PD-1996 is correct assuming the publication did not comply with US formalities.
Laniana and a map of her back tattoos, 1875-1876.png	Anatole von Hügel, died 1928	2019	Jacobs, Karen. This Is Not a Grass Skirt : On Fibre Skirts (liku) and Female Tattooing (veiqia) in Nineteenth Century Fiji, Sidestone Press, 2019. p.143	UK Life of author, plus 70 years		PD-US-unpublished
Fiji Museum in Suva.jpg		2010	from Flickr, then onto Commons	n/a	n/a	Is the copyright status of the mural known?

Lajmmoore (talk) 13:39, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks so much @Nikkimaria - I worked for a guide as to what "US formalities" was, but I couldn't see one -can you point me in the right direction? I'm going to ask if the library supply can send the copyright page from inside the book to me. Lajmmoore (talk) 09:10, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Depends on the specifics of the case, but this is a quite good breakdown. Be aware that sometimes books will have separate copyright notices for images, particularly if they're being used "with permission" of someone other than the author/publisher. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:47, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Support per my comments at PR. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:22, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Note I'm away from today for about 10 days Lajmmoore (talk) 22:39, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Comments by Thebiguglyalien

Reviewing this as I have yet to review an article about Fiji, and articles about underrepresented countries need more attention.

General:

• The article mostly describes veiqia in the past tense as something that no longer exists, but there are still examples today.

• What I tried to do is when contemporary veiqia is being dicussed, use present tense, but when the article discusses its history use the past tense. While veiqia does happen today, it's not widespread, so I don't think the whole article could be present tense. Would welcome suggestions to improve. (LM)

• I'm interested in how the Kingsley Roth source is being used. Is there a reason why some instances are attributed and others are in wikivoice

• I attributed longer sentences, or quotes to KR, but where it's a shorter statement e.g. this time of ink was used I didn't, as I felt the context of who wrote about it wasn't required. Or also if the reference was one of two for a particular point, KR isn't mentioned. I think the first mention that discusses his background is useful for raders. Would be happy to attribute all points to him, or otherwise (LM)

• Was this universal among all the tribes of all the islands making up present-day Fiji?

• There aren't the records to say one way of the other, because not all peoples were studied (LM)

• The article is inconsistent about whether veiqia is solely the pelvic tattoos or if qia gusu is also a type of veiqia. It mostly seems like the former, but "The veiqia, especially at the mouth" implies the latter, and information solely about mouth tattoos unrelated to pelvic tattoos is included in a few spots.

• so my impression is that qia gusu could be seen in some occassions as Stage 2 Veiqia, as its about childbirth more than puberty; from my reading I don't think a woman would get qia gusgu if she didn't have veiqia. The answer I guess is that they are very closely linked bu not the same. (LM)
• I think I have clarified the sentence above (LM)

• Is there a reason why "qia gusu" and other Fijian terms are italicized but "veiqia" is not?

• Hmmm, I think was under the impression that if a term was the subject of the article it wasn't italicised. Happy to change the format either way (LM)

• The article is very comma-heavy and needs a copyedit with that in mind. There are many sentences that could be rewritten or split to limit commas, and many where commas are placed unnecessarily and can simply be removed.

• I think I have addressed this (LM)

Lead:

• Is there any reason why Weniqia is cited in the lead instead of being explained in the body?

• I think this was left over from when it was a much shorter article (LM)

• "The practice has undergone revival in the twenty-first century, led by the work of The Veiqia Project." – This might be overstating things if only eight women have been tattooed.

• I've moderated this slightly, but I really do think most of the awareness raising about the significance of the project has been done in the past few years by the project (LM)

• It describes their beauty twice in the second paragraph.

  changed language (LM)

• "was closely associated with young women" – Wasn't it exclusively applied to young women, which is already covered in the previous paragraph?

• I've clarified this now (LM)

• I don't see anything in the body about medicine used to heal the skin.

• marking this to return to removed as not in REF1 (LM)

• The list of motifs might be excessive detail for a broad overview.

• reduced (LM)

• The barkcloth and wooden weapons aren't that important to veiqia and probably don't need a mention in the lead.

• removed sentence (LM)

• "Veiqia had significant cultural impact outside Fiji." – What's supporting this? All we have is that a similar practice in Samoa may have been inspired by veiqia.

• removed (LM)

Description:

• "and the whole process" – It might just be me, but this seems informal

• chnage process to ritual (LM)

• "reflecting nature and culture" – Can this be elaborated upon? Does nature mean the natural environment around that particular tribe, for example? Or just that it incorporated designs of natural things?

• note to look this up clarified this sentence, and speficied environment. Sources don't provide any further detail (LM)

• "was once again a factor" – I suggest omitting "once" as redundant

• done (LM)

• Is it possible to give more specific ages? Is there a point where a girl would be considered too young despite menstruation beginning, or a woman unusually old to not have underwent the ritual?

• I didn't read about this in the sources I've used, apart from how some more noble women received veiqia later (but that seems to be late teens rather than earlier) but I'll check again (LM)

• I looked through This Is Not a Grass Skirt again, but no specific ages are given (LM)

Ritual:

• "The dauveiqia (also daubati – tattooists) were expert older women, who were held in high regard in Fijian society" – This is the first time the body mentions dauveiqia so I suggest defining their role more explicitly than a parenthetical.

• Good point, thanks (LM)

• "were expert older women" – Seems informal and imprecise. And was their high regard a cultural respect for the elderly, or is this specifically in relation to their tattooing skills?

• My impression from the source, is that its in relation to their skills (LM)

• "One of the last traditional dauveiqia was Rabali" – I'm split on this one. It feels strange to introduce this name suddenly, but "was a woman named Rabali" might be excessively wordy.

• I think it reads OK (LM)

• "Knowledge-holders of this tattooing practice" – Unless "knowledge-holders" is a technical term, there's probably a better way to phrase this

• I've re-phrased this as "The ways in which dauveiqia worked varied regionally." (LM)

• "and she was a member of the maitaisu clan" – Unclear what this means or how it's relevant to her being the only specialist in the region.

• I think I've clarifed this; basically there is one example of a dauveiqia from a particualr clan, but there is no eveidence that this was usual/unusual (LM)

• Preparations [...] was highly ritualized – I think this is a plural/singular issue

• fixed (LM)

• "The tattoo practitioners themselves also" – Consider omitting either "themselves" or "also"

• done (LM)

• Is there more information about the qara ni veiqia? What makes them special?

• marking this point to return to (LM)

• Not very much more, but I added a sentence about a the location of a known site (LM)

• If sessions lasted for days at a time, does this means that they went out to work on it every afternoon for a few days and then took a few days off? Or does it mean they stayed there for a hundred hours straight?

• marking this to return to (although I don't think the source actuallt mentions what routine was (LM)

• This Is Not a Grass Skirt doesn't say, and I couldn't see this recorded in the other sources. Neither do any of them explictly say this isn't recorded though (LM)

• Not being done at once and stopping so the skin can heal is mentioned twice in the same paragraph.

• I've taken out the first sentence about it (LM)

• Was there any ritual around the removal of the scabs? I'm assuming they didn't fall off on their own exactly four days later every time.

• Marking this to return to (LM)

• Other than the feast, there's no further detail e.g. that people helped get the scabs off (LM)

• Do we know who presented the woman with her first liku?

• Marking this to return to (LM)

• I've re-read This is Not a Grass Skirt and I can't see where it says precisely who presented the liku, my impression is its from the community, but that's reading between the lines (LM)

Implements:

• "The implements used showed regional variations." – I suggest something like "used for Veiqia" so it mentions the subject and feels like more of a complete sentence.

• done (LM)

• "shaped like a very small adze" – I suggest omitting "very"

• done (LM)

• "The handle for the bati could be made from reed" – This seems noncommittal. Do we not know for sure, or can we say "was sometimes made of reed"?

• done (LM)

• "(another term for the mallet)" – Feels informal

• Improved (LM)

• "a different approach was taken" and "was in contrast to" are redundant to one another.

• removed former (LM)

• "Some dauveiqia, such as Rabali" – Was Rabali known for this specifically? If she was one of countless women to do this, it's probably not necessary to name her specifically.

• So I think it is important to name her, as there are very few named veiqia recorded, and she is also signficant as she was the last one pre-revitalisation (LM)

• The info about qia gusu here is out of scope if it's not part of veiqia.

• So qia gusu is associated with veiqia,and most sources mention it in parallel, but I'm wondering whether it's worth having a separate paragraph for it? (LM)

Cultural significance:

• The qia gusu image is out of scope if it's not part of veiqia. I'm also not sure about the Samoan image since it doesn't convey anything that contributes to an understanding of veiqia.

• I guess I'm wondering whether the qia gusu should have a section in the article (for now at least) since they are related (LM)
• I have no strong feelings about the malu image, other than it shows similar instruments in use? I've changed the caption (LM)

• Two sentences in this section start with "Indeed", which is informal in tone and does not add anything to a sentence.

• removed (LM)

• "was undoubtedly painful" – Editorializing and tone

• thanks for picking this up, fixed (LM)

• "they were older than those of a lower social status" – The way this sentence is structured makes it sound like they waited until they could find a low-status woman who was younger than the high-status woman.

• I think I've cleared this up, but please double check (LM)

• It also had a significant impact – What had a significant impact? A new paragraph should mention the subject before using pronouns to keep it clear what's being discussed.

• thanks for picking this up, fixed (LM)

• We have one malu italicized and one Malu not.

• i missed a lang template, now fixed (LM)

• "similar to those printed onto barkcloth or incised onto decorated weapons, such as clubs" – This sentence implies that the reader should already be familiar with these practices.

• I added a link, but (see below), I've moved the sentence so let me know if its needs further clarification (LM)

• A single sentence shouldn't be on its own line.

• I've moved it up into the description section (LM)

Missionaries, colonisation and decline:

• More context is needed on when contact and colonisation first began.

• making note to add this (LM)

• I've adde some, but is it enough? (LM)

• "However, the practice did continue, in secret," – "however", "did", and the commas are all unnecessary and this could be simplified to "The practice continued in secret".

• done (LM)

• Buckland's writing might not be relevant if it's only there to say that it exists and isn't considered significant by other sources.

• I think I'd like to keep the Buckland reference in (LM)

• "Women he drew included:" – I'd omit this sentence entirely unless these women are notable. Other than their names, the sentence doesn't tell us anything new.

• So I think if we know the names of women in the past, we should include them, and especially in this case as they are the subjects of some of the few known historic images of the work (LM)

Museum collections:

• "The largest record of veiqia was made by Anatole von Hügel" – Could a year be added here?

• so he was travelling across multiple years, so I added the decade (LM)

• "Through careful comparison of archival drawings" – I suggest omitting "careful"

• done (LM)

• Does "as well as others" need to be said? This is already a list of "included", so we already know it isn't necessarily exhaustive.

• done (LM)

• This is the second time Rabali has been described as the last of the dauveiqia.

• thanks for picking this up (LM)

Revival and The Veiqia Project:

• Where is The Veiqia Project from? It's unclear whether it's based out of Fiji, Australia, or New Zealand.

• The members live between Fiji, NZ and Australia, but all are Fijian - I think i've clarified this (LM)

• Could more information be provided about the revitalization efforts? Why only eight women so far, and why these eight specifically? I'd like to read more about the process about how participants are found.

• making a note to research this further (LM)

• I spent some time on this, and there isn't a write-up of why those specific eight women, but i added more general comments about women wanting to veiqia to more closely connect with their heritage and indigenieity. (LM)

I may have more copyediting suggestions later, depending on how the article changes. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:36, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks so much for such a detailed review @Thebiguglyalien - I found some time today to address 2/3 points, and I have italicised where I need to check a source or do some further research. I'll address your top comments about the lead when I've done these things. It might be next weekend though, as I have a very busy week ahead Lajmmoore (talk) 18:55, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

Note I still have the general comments to address, and it's most likely I will work on this next weekend Lajmmoore (talk) 23:11, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Lajmmoore, here are some responses to things above that still need attention, as well as some copyediting thoughts. I also made a few copyedits myself so as not to crowd the list with minor details Special:Diff/1277159436.

• Is there a way that the article could say we don't know the precise extent of it? Do any sources mention this specifically?

• I think the closest comes in This is not a Grass Skirt which talks about how the sources shows glimpses of use (p.140) and that museum collections don't always have locality data, so the practice can't be traced that way (see this diff) (LM)

• Is there anything in the sources that explicitly says qia gusu is part of veiqia? I'm on the fence on this one about whether it should be treated as the same subject, a subtopic with WP:SUMMARY style, or something that's relevant but distinct.

• It's very tricky, because This is not a grass Skirt describes how there is confusion in the sources, from p.51 there is a section that starts "This new chapter in her life [broadly construed as marriage] was not just visible in a woman's change of dress, but was similarly reflected on her body as she received her qia gusu tattooing around the mouth..." - to me it seems that the practices was almost a Stage 2 of veiqia, but one that not everyone went through, but for those who did it was intimately connected to veiqia. On page 140 in the same source one of the images is described as showing "her qia gusu, her veiqia and also the marking on her arms and chest" - whilst veiqia and qia gusu are described as being part of rituals at puberty and marriage, other tattoos don't seem to have siginificance in the same way, so I would still continue to keep veiqia and qia gusu connected in the article. I think if the article didn't include qia gusu, people familiar with veiqia would notice its absence. (LM)

• I want to say that MOS:NONENGITALIC and WP:ITALICTITLE indicate that veiqia should be italicized, but I'm not 100 percent confident.

• So I've italicised them all, so its at least standardised (see this diff) (LM)

• The lead sentence is rather long. If it's to be a concise explanation of the subject, we might consider ending it after "is a female tattooing practice from Fiji" and then having the next sentence explain how it works.

• done (see) (LM)

• "an important archive of veiqia research" – "Important" feels subjective.

• done (see) (LM)

• Could the two-sentence paragraph at the end of the lead be combined with the one above it?

• done (LM)

• "It was only after tattooing that young women were permitted to wear a liku, and the whole ritual was closely linked to puberty and coming-of-age" – I feel like this would read better if the clauses were switched.

• done (LM)

• "near the Wainimala river no preparation prior to tattooing was undertaken" – This reads backwards. Maybe something like "No preparation was made prior to tattooing by the people near the Wainimala river?" Although that's still a little clunky too.

• revised (LM)

• "He reportedly said that "the idea of marriage with an untattooed woman filled him with disgust"" – This quote seems to be attributed to the chief, but it also refers to the chief in the third person.

• I think I've clarfied this (LM)

• "If a woman died who had not received veiqia, at burial her body was painted with designs so that the gods would not punish her in the afterlife" – This sentence reads awkwardly to me.

• I think I've impvoed it a little (LM)

• How widely accepted is the idea that Samoan tattoo practices came from Fijian tattoo practices? The article states it as fact and attributes the specifics to legend.

• There are several sources that attribute it the same legend (although there are different tellings), see here, here, here and here p.77 (LM)

• "European traders had established as the first European-style town" – Is there a missing word here?

yes, and oops (LM)

• The sentence beginning with "With the activities of missionaries" is divided up with five separate commas. It might just need to be rewritten or split.

• done - split (LM)

• "encouraged to adopt "Christian dress"" – This feels like scarequotes.

• done (LM)

• Are Brewster's opinions on the tattoos relevant?

• I included these as I thought it was an interesting example how western (or at least one man's) opinion altered according to style of tattoo - showing the complexity of perception of the practice (LM)

• The first sentence of Revival and The Veiqia Project is rather long.

• split first sentence (LM)

Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 01:05, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks so much @Thebiguglyalien and for commenting so quickly, it's very much appreciated. I'm not at a computer today, but I'll look at all of these tomorrow Lajmmoore (talk) 08:19, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

I've addressed the above @Thebiguglyalien, many thanks Lajmmoore (talk) 15:05, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Looks good! I notice that User:Pburka has split up the paragraph in the lead, which introduces MOS:PARA issues. Assuming that's resolved, I support promoting this as a featured article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 01:15, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Single sentence paragraphs might be less that ideal, but they're better than poorly focused paragraphs dealing with multiple topics. There were three topics in one paragraph: the historical practice of veiqia, contemporary museum collections, and a legend regarding Samoa. I felt these made more sense as separate paragraphs. Arguably, the two smaller topics might not be important enough to be in the lead at all. pburka (talk) 04:19, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

I took pe'a out, and moved the sentence on archive up Lajmmoore (talk) 08:35, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Comments from Kusma

• Liku is a disambiguation page and the link is not helpful here.

• Thanks for spotting this (LM)

• "liku (fringed skirt)" (or the plural form) is repeated a few times; isn't it enough to introduce the word once in the lead and once in the body?

• yup, absolutely (LM)

• Is it liku or liku? Both occur in the article.

• the latter, my mistake, I thought I had picked them all up (LM)

• "Veiqia practices varied regionally: [..] Regional variations limited " it should be enough to say once that there were regional variations. At the end of the Description section, we have more repetition of regional variation, and it might be nice to combine the two mentions of Gordon-Cumming to avoid being repetitive.

• I've re-written this section ending, so I think it scan better (LM)

This is an interesting topic, I might be back for more comments. —Kusma (talk) 23:22, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your comments Kusma - I think I have addressed them Lajmmoore (talk) 21:32, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

A bit more:

• The IPA in the lead should specify which language this is.

• I'm not sure if I've done this correctly, as someone else added the IPA, please advise if not (LM)

• Would be good to say in the lead what "The Veiqia Project" is. Just three or four words should be enough.

• done (LM)

• "included: turtles and wandering tattlers, pottery and basketwork, amongst others" I would drop the colon and the "amongst others", it is redundant to "included".

• done (LM)

• Theodor Kleinschmidt could be given more context (especially as to when he came to Fiji), given that he seems the main source we have for images? (Other than the 1980s documentation that is not public?)

• done (see this diff) (LM)

• Missionaries, colonisation and decline: "In the 1820s, according the explorer Charles Wilkes, European traders had established as the first European-style town in Fiji, on the island of Ovalau" I think they had established Levuka. This could be stated in wikivoice and does not need attribution unless it is a controversial opinion. It might be useful to mention that there was little European contact earlier (Abel Tasman? Cook only visited an uninhabited island; Bligh charted some of the Fiji islands but I don't know what he reported).

• added brief reference to Tasman and Bligh (LM)

• For the redlinked Fijian women, is there any hope of ever writing an article about them? If not, they should be unlinked.

• I think there is for the ones that are in red (LM)

• "work of The Veiqia Project" either "the Veiqia Project" or The Veiqia Project I think.

• done (I think Thebiguglylaien caught this) (LM)

• "all of which had been created by the twenty-first century dauveiqia include Julia Mageʼau Gray" there is something wrong with this sentence.

• I think I fixed it (LM)

Hope these are helpful. —Kusma (talk) 11:15, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks very much for these additional points, I really appreciate it Lajmmoore (talk) 15:05, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

@Kusma forgot to ping Lajmmoore (talk) 15:09, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, I was super busy in real life. I'll try to have another look by tomorrow evening. —Kusma (talk) 17:14, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

It seems much improved, I am happy to support at this point. —Kusma (talk) 12:18, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Coordinator comment

Nearly four weeks in and just the single general support. Unless this nomination makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next two or three days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:43, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks very much @Gog the Mild - it's my first nomination and I hadn't realised there was a time limit. I've now addressed all the comments left by Llewee, Nikkimaria, Thebiguglyalien and Kusma these have all helped to improve the article so thanks very much. Lajmmoore (talk) 22:07, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

@Gog the Mild is it OK to post about this candidate in other Wikiprojects - bearing WP:CANVAS in mind and to perhaps say it's a comment for people already familiar with FAC? I looked in the talk page archive, but couldn't see a consensus Lajmmoore (talk) 15:12, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

An extract from my standard boilerplate response to this sort of query follows. Note that there is a stress on "neutrally phrased".

Sometimes placing a polite neutrally phrased request on the talk pages of a few of the more frequent reviewers helps. Or on the talk pages of relevant Wikiprojects. Or of editors you know are interested in the topic of the nomination. Or who have contributed at PR, or assessed at GAN, or edited the article.

Does that help? Gog the Mild (talk) 15:18, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you @Gog the Mild - I appreciate it! Lajmmoore (talk) 15:24, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Left notes at WikiProject Women in Red, WikiProject Fiji, and with editors Junxlos and Mujinga, who had previously reviewed its GA and DYK nominations Lajmmoore (talk) 15:35, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

@Gog the Mild just to update you, I'm waiting for an article that should answer some of the image concerns discusseed with Nikkimaria above. I'm hoping it will arrive within the next week, however I am away from Wikipedia a week from today. Lajmmoore (talk) 18:46, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

Just another update @Gog the Mild - I've addressed all the points other editors have made and the final thing I am now waiting for is a copy of some plates from a 1961 article that might help solve the PD-US discussion that Nikkimaria raised above. I'm hopefuly that will arrive this week. Lajmmoore (talk) 22:24, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

Just another update @Gog the Mild - I need to double check the MoS and the rest of the quotes (thank you) and there's a little more copyright detective work to do. I am away from 29 March to 6 April, and it's very unlikely I'll be editing on Wikipedia during that time. I will try to do these two bits today/tomorrow if I can. Lajmmoore (talk) 09:28, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Comment from MerielGJones

Fascinating about cultural and tattoos. Well worth being a Featured Article.

In 3rd paragraph at the start is says: 'To break the skin, some tools used included stingray spines, lemon thorns or shark teeth.' If lemon thorns are the thorns of Citrus sp. tree (as made clearer later on), I suggest wikilink to Citrus. Fiji is near centre of origin of Citrus, so trees present before the modern Citrus industry were probably distinct from modern lemon, maybe selected for particularly suitable thorns.

In section Cultural significance, first paragraph, I think there is a typo in last line: ... painted with the pereceived missing designs... MerielGJones (talk) 16:39, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks so much @MerielGJones I really appreciate those comments and have addressed them Lajmmoore (talk) 08:41, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Source review & spot checks: Pass

I'll pick this up shortly. On a side note, sorry this hasn't picked up much interest from other reviewers, which is a shame. This often happens with first timers (unfortunately). My advice is to review some other FACs to get your name out with other reviewers and nominators and hope they return the favour. If it gets closed by a coord, just wait two weeks and renominate, pinging the people who were here this time, which should start the next one off on the right foot. Source review to follow shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 07:54, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

Spot checks

• Ref 1. I used this version to verify the citations

1A: OK

1C. "Veiqia ... is a traditional form of tattooing that was exclusive to women in Fiji": Not supported on page 1, but it is on page 13

1D. OK

1F: In the version linked above, von Hügel's images and descriptions are on pages 135-139 not 136-140

1H: OK

1J: OK

1N: OK

1O: OK

1Q: " Pubic tattoos were made first, followed by the hips and buttocks. To support healing, the tattoos were not made all at once, rather work occurred across three days, followed by a rest for the skin to heal, then a return to the ritual depending on how quickly the skin adapted.": not quite. The source says "each sitting seems not to have exceeded three to five days"

1T: OK

1Y:OK

1AC: OK

1AG: "Von Hügel was also himself tattooed by some Fijian women, and the tools that were used are in the MAA collection." The text in red is not supported by the text at that ref

1AI: The United States Exploring Expedition (1840–1842) expanded knowledge of veiqia through collecting, and many of those objects are held in the Smithsonian The text in red is not supported by the text at that ref

Thanks very much, I've addressed REF1 now (LM)

• Ref 3: That page doesn't support that Roth was "a British colonial administrator" (Yes, I know that's being rather picky, but that's what FAs are like!)

3D: OK

3E: "a bati (mbati is a former traditional spelling)" and "The handle for the bati was sometimes made from reed." are not supported by the text at that ref

3F: OK

3G: OK, but probably best to mention it's the soot after burning, rather than a 'raw' pine

Thanks, I've addressed these (LM)

• Ref 6A: These areas would normally be covered by a liku (fringed skirt) isn't covered in the source

6B: OK

done (LM)

• Ref 7: Veiqia practices varied regionally. isn't covered in the source

done (LM)

• Ref 8: "Designs were also made around women's mouths known as qia gusu – but rather than marking transition out of puberty, they were made to mark subsequent stages in a woman's life, such as marriage or childbirth": This is in reference 1 only (there is nothing in ref 8 that supports this at all and can be removed from this sentence). Ref 1 states "This new chapter in her life [marriage] was not just visible in a woman’s change of dress, but was similarly reflected on her body as she received her qia gusu, tattooing around the mouth." So it's not about "subsequent stages in a woman's life, such as marriage or childbirth", but just marriage according to page 52.

so p.52 says: "There is confusion in the literature about the timing of tattooing around the mouth. Suckling, in the quote above, was told mouth tattooing was done before marriage, whereas von Hügel noted that women were tattooed around the mouth when married (Roth and Hooper 1990: 384). Thomson (1908: 218) and Williams (1858: 160) remarked that a woman was tattooed around the mouth after child-birth." so childbirth is included. I have added a qualification though. (LM)

• Ref 11b: OK
• Ref 14: OK
• Ref 15: OK
• Ref 21: There's no reference to Levuka or Ovalau on page 220
• Ref 24: OK
• Ref 28: OK
• Ref 29A: OK
• Ref 34: OK (although the sentence it is supporting – " As of 2022, eight women were known..." – is entirely supported by ref 34. Ref 33 isn't needed and can be removed from the end of that sentence
• Ref 35A: OK (Slightly close on the wording and could be a tweaked to distance it)
• Ref 35B: "Those who receive veiqia in the twenty-first century cite feeling a closer connection to their indigenous Fijian heritage as a primary reason to acquire them" This is a bit of SYNTH here. Two interviewees in the two sources both say that, but our text makes it sound like everyone who has had veiqia does, which is a bit misleading. The best we can say is that the two who were interviewed in the two sources feel it (unless I'm missing where it applies it more broadly)
• Refs 34 and 35 are the same and should be merged
• With the one very slight exception above, there was no evidence of too-close paraphrasing or copying. - SchroCat (talk) 11:29, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the advice @SchroCat - I'll be sure to do some reviewing over the next few months. Thank you too for the comments, I'll start to address them this week, as I was away last week Lajmmoore (talk) 16:20, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for raising these referencing issue, I think I have addressed them all. I'll look at formatting tomorrow Lajmmoore (talk) 00:32, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Formatting

Reliability and breadth

To follow. - SchroCat (talk) 11:29, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

• You have date formats as "2021-10-05" and "22 September 2024": these should be made consistent (both formats are fine, so it doesn't matter which one you pick
• The capitalisation goes awry in a few places, with some titles in sentence case and some in start case: these should be made consistent
• Ref 1: "This Is Not a Grass Skirt : On": rogue space should be removed
• There are a few places where the website name is listed as part of the page title and needs to be either removed or moved into the Website or Publisher name:
  • Ref 4: "Communities engaging with digitised special collections - Library - University of Queensland". Looking at the page, "- Library - University of Queensland" is not part of the page title and should be removed (You already have the publisher details listed)
  • Ref 10: "Tattoo combs of the Fijian daubati - Collection highlights - Auckland War Memorial Museum". Again, the museum name is not in the page title, so split this off into the publisher field
  • Ref 14: "iLakolako ni weniqia: A Veiqia Project exhibition – The Veiqia Project".
  • Ref 20: "[Copy of ] 'A Chart of Bligh's Islands' [Fiji] by William Bligh, with tracks of the 'Bounty' launch (1789), 'Providence' and 'Assistant' (1792), and 'Hope' and 'Ann' (1799) | Royal Museums Greenwich".
  • Ref 23: "My tattoos helped me feel closer to my Fijian heritage | SBS Voices".
  • Ref 27: "Resources - The Veiqia Project"
  • Ref 34/35: "Macawa ni Vosa Vakaviti with Emmaline Pickering-Martin - The University of Auckland".
• Ref 6: You should have "Pitt Rivers Museum" as the website name
• Ref 24: "The Evening News". 1871-10-26. You need to have both article title and publication name listed (even if they are the same) and the page number (if the nla site goes down or changes access, people still need to have all the normal details for a newspaper)

The references are all reliable and within policy. Additional searches don't find anything obvious that has been missed (although I am not a subject specialist). - SchroCat (talk) 14:19, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Ironically, the NLA site is down, but I think I have fixed the other formatting issues, many thanks Lajmmoore (talk) 19:28, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

All good from me and thanks for the changes. Source review is a pass. - SchroCat (talk) 08:19, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

Support Comments from Noleander

I saw this at FAC "needing urgent review" page, so thought I'd read the article & post a few notes.

• 1st sentence Veiqia ... is a female tattooing practice from Fiji. the word "from" suggests that is was exported and is practiced outside Fiji. Consider "... in Fiji" or "... is a Fijian tattooing practice ...." [Edit] I see later in the article who published an article in 1888 that discussed the transmission of tattooing from Fiji to Samoa.... so I gather it was exported? Maybe that should be mentioned in the lead, unless the practice outside Fiji was minimal. However, if the practice adopted in Samoa was uniquely Samoan, and not considered Veiqia, then emphasizing "export" in the lead is not appropriate.

my impression is that it's the latter - the Samoan tradition is very distinct, so I've not added Samoa to the lead. I did change the first sentence to "in Fiji" though. (LM)

• Present vs Past tense throughout article: , is a female... vs Women or adolescent girls who had reached puberty were tattooed ... . Tense changes from present to past. I know the prose talks about the practice going away then getting revived. But the lead should use a consistent tense. Similar tense change later in article at Veiqia is a traditional form of tattooing that was exclusive to ... Since the article, at end, implies that a small number of women are getting the tattoos, and one may reasonably infer that the practice will continue, to some extent, for awhile into the future, I suggest that present tense throughout the article, e.g.: "Veiqa is the Fijian practice of tattooing..." Then, in the lead, establish the three temporal phases: (1) common until mid 19th century; (2) decline thru 20th c; (3) renewed interest in 21st century. [The dates used in preceding sentence are simply placeholders; I'm not suggesting those are the correct dates]

I think I've improved the use of tenses (LM)

• Wording could be better: For Fijian people, the tattoos accentuated a woman's beauty across the stages of her life. "for Fijian people" is not ideal. Not sure how to improve it, maybe "In Fijian culture, the tattoos were considered to heighten a woman's beauty ..." or something like that?

thanks I've addressed this (LM)

• ... continuing above: .... a woman's beauty across the stages of her life. Ambiguous: does that mean the one-time tattoo lasted a lifetime? or the tattoo was gradually augmented throughout the lifetime?

so I've done quite a lot of looking into this, and it seems to me that the veiqia and the qia gusu are seen as two aspects of the same tattooing practice that happened at different life stages, but that each tattoo was usually a one-time affair, but sometimes they might be addded to. I think other edits made this less ambigous, but would welcome further consideration. (LM)

• Awkward phrasing The practice was prominent pre-colonisation, but it was discouraged in the nineteenth century by missionaries, some of whose activities took place under British colonial rule.... "some of whose activities took place" is awkward & disturbs the flow. Consider eliminating "some of whose activities took place under British colonial rule" if the missionaries arrived BEFORE colonial rule and started discouraging the tattooing before colonial rule started. Alternatively, if the British rulers also discouraged the tattooing (independently from missionaries) then reword as "In addition, British rulers also discouraged the tattooing...." etc.

done, thanks (LM)

• Does word "Veiqia" mean the tattoo itself; or the practice of tattooing? Or both? 1st sentence in lead is Veiqia ... is a female tattooing practice from Fiji. then later is . Veiqia were seen as attractive and .... so I gather the word is used in both senses. Not sure what WP MOS policy is, but maybe that dual usage could be introduce in the 1st sentence? "Veiqia is the Fijian practice of tattooing ... The word Veiqia can also refer to the tattoos themselves" or something like that?

it's both, so I've added a sentence in about it (LM)

• ... and purging of the body. Need to explain what "purging" means here. Fasting? Vomiting? Or a spiritual ritual ?

thanks, added vomiting

• Ambiguous wording in quote Gordon-Cumming reported that women at the coast only had "an exceedingly small display of tattooing ... so much as was compulsory" the phrase "so much as was compulsory" is ambiguous (could mean "the minimum that was required by the culture" or "many of the tattooing practices were mandatory") Because the wording is within a quote, I suggest that you read the context of the quote, and then re-word in editor's voice to make the meaning more clear.

I think I've explained this more clearly now (LM)

• Not sure what information this intended to convey: The history and practice of veiqia was largely recorded by people who were not indigenous to Fiji. Is the key fact that (a) Fijians did not record any info about the practice? or (b) European researchers & colonialists did a great job of documenting the practice? Or both? The word "largely" makes the reader wonder: "Okay, what _did_ the indigious people record about the practice?" Consider improving the wording to clarify the point that the source was making.
  • [edit] Okay, I see later in the article The fact that those who are studying veiqia rely largely on colonial sources means that often they only describe "a specific regional overview at a specific time".[1]:140 Combined with the lack of location-specific data in many museum objects, means that understanding of the practice is partial. The "... rely largely on colonial sources means..." sentence should be placed immediately following the ".. practice of veiqia was largely recorded by people who were not ..." sentence.

• so I've put this all in a new paragraph right at the end called historiography, which I think clarifies what the section is about (LM)

• Again, not sure what purpose it serves to emphasize the ethnicity: During the nineteenth century, liku and records of veiqia were collected for museums primarily by non-Fijians. Is the source emphasizing that museum collections were built by Europoeans? Why is the source emphasizing that? If the source is not emphasizing the ethnicity then reword as During the nineteenth century, museums collected liku and records of veiqia..... or something like that.

• i think i've clrafied this, by saying that non-fijians might not understand it thoroughly (LM)

• Clarify ... Anaseini Diroko who was one of the women tattooed in the early twentieth century. The phrase "...one of the woman .." requires the reader stop & think. If the point is the practice was in decline in early 20th c, and only a small portion of (young) women got tattooed at that era, then say so explicitly: readers jump around a lot, and may not recall the exact years (mentioned above in article) when the practice fell into disuse.

I've added in a reminder about her being one of the last to be tattooed (LM)

• Punctuation: ...Anaseini Diroko who was one of the women tattooed in.. I think a comma should go between "Diroko" and "who".

thanks (LM)

• ... and a number of younger The word "number" used that way is not good in encyclopedias. The following sentence says "eight" , so remove "number" (perhaps replace with "some"?) and let "eight" do the heavy lifting here.

I took out "a number of of", but since then next sentence says "as of 2022, eight ..." I've left the rest of the phrase as it was (LM)

• Wording the third person in the world to receive ... Phrase "in the world" not encyclopedic in this context ... sounds too slang-y. Is the point that people outside Fiji are getting these tattoos in the 21s century? If so, say so. Better to remove "in the world" , unless sources discuss the countries where the modern tattoo recipients reside.

done (LM)

• Wording could be better Those who receive veiqia in the twenty-first century cite feeling a closer connection to their indigenous Fijian heritage as a primary reason to acquire them. Adjacent words "cite feeling" are grating. Maybe Some women who received veiqia in the twenty-first century said that they were motivated by a desire to establish a stronger connection to their indigenous Fijian heritage.

done (LM)

• When is today? ...and a number of younger Fijian women are undergoing veiqia... We cannot expect readers to know if that phrase was written in 2015? 2020? 2025? No one will know. Reword so that reader doesn't need to guess when the women "underwent" the tattooing. Maybe In the early 21st century, following the v project, the practice of v experienced a minor resurgence. In 2022, eight women were known ... or something like that.

done (LM)

• Link in lead? some tools used included stingray spines, lemon thorns or shark teeth. The word lemon is linked in lead, yet Stingray is not linked. Does the WP MOS have a guideline about linking common words in lead?

• so I looked at MOS:FIRSTTERM which had an example that listed "broccoli, etc" so I've added a link to stingray in (LM)

• @Lajmmoore: That's all I have for now. If you want more feedback, ping me when the above are resolved/addressed/explained. Noleander (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for these comments @Noleander I'll look to address them this week, I appreciate the time taken Lajmmoore (talk) 16:21, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I was going to "Oppose" this nomination, because none of the above issues I raised nine days ago have been addressed... but I see on the nominator's User page that they are away from wikipedia until 16 March 2025. So, I'll wait a few more days. Noleander (talk) 17:57, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello @Noleander I was just coming to leave a note to say that personal circumstances have kept me away from Wikipedia this week and I did not have any time to look at addressing the comments both you and @SchroCat made. Please do not think I do not appreciate the investment in helping to improve the article. I am away, from 16 until 19 March, but I have put that evening aside to work through all of these. I am also waiting for a library request to come to address some copyright issues raised by @Nikkimaria. I very much appreciate your patience Lajmmoore (talk) 19:56, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

No worries, I didn't mean to put pressure on you I was just letting the FA coordinators know what I was thinking. Noleander (talk) 20:07, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Just a note for you @Noleander that I'm working through the comments in turn from both yourself and Schrocat, and hope to have everything addressed by the end of the weekend. Once again, thanks for the patience as life throws surprises. Lajmmoore (talk) 00:33, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the comments Noleander, I have worked my way through them. I appreciate your patience. Lajmmoore (talk) 22:35, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

• Article is looking much better ... especially good to see more uniformity on present tense vs past tense. More comments...

• Why the names? After watching a film where Mage'au-Gray tattooed veiqia, Emmaline Pickering-Martin also received veiqia as part of its revival. Ema Tavola designed a veiqia tattoo for Margaret Aull to mark the death of her grandmother. Both Aull and Pickering-Martin were motivated by a desire to establish a stronger connection to their indigenous Fijian heritage as a primary reason to acquire veiqia. [emphasis added] It seems odd to give the names of individuals (highlighted here in bold) that received the tattoos ... giving the names of the artists is sensible, but the recipients? Stating their names implies to the reader that the recipients are famous ... are they? If not, it is more encyclopedic to omit the names, and replace them with "one Fijian woman" or "a Fijian woman" and shift the emphasis to the motivation of the recipients, not their identity. As a middle ground: the names can be given in a footnote (rather than in the body).

• so Margaret Aull is one of the member of the Veiqia Project, soI think her name should stay. With Pickering-Martin, she is an activist, and looks to me that she might be notable in the future (so i red linked her) (LM)

• Consider putting a "Fiji topics" bar at the bottom of the article: {{Fiji topics}}

• done (LM)

• Consider adding a link to Veiqia article within the Fiji topics template (at Template:Fiji_topics). That template does not presently contain a huge number of links, so I don't think another would be excessive ... especially for a veiqiq which is very unique to Fiji. Alternatively, ask first at the template's Talk page: Template_talk:Fiji_topics then add if no one objects.

• I've been bold and added it (LM)

• Spelling: I just fixed a spelling error in the Lead. cenutry -> century. No big deal, but consider running a spell-checker over the whole article.

• This important sentence in Lead could be better: The practice was prominent prior to the middle of the nineteenth cenutry, but it was discouraged by missionaries. The word "prominent" does not seem ideal - maybe "common" or "commonly practiced"? Also, is there a way to specify the missionaries? Country of origin? Religion? E.g. The practice was common prior to the middle of the nineteenth cenutry, but it was discouraged by Christian missionaries who arrived after colonization by the Brtish. (I'm making up the country and religion, for purposes of illustration).

• done (LM)

• More precise wording: Special caves called qara ni veiqia were historically used for the ritual. How "used"? for preparation? for recovery? Consider: The ritual of applying the tattoos was historically conducted in special caves called qara ni veiqia.

• done with thanks (LM)

• Wording in Lead: The practice was revived in the twenty-first century, substantially led by the work of a collective of artists known as The Veiqia Project. The word "substantially" raises questions in the reader's mind: "Who else led the revival, and why is the editor not identifying the others?" Unless there was a second force behind the revival, consider dropping the word: The practice was revived in the twenty-first century, led by the work of a collective of artists known as The Veiqia Project. The word "led" by itself does not preclude other individuals (outside the V.P.) who participated in the revival.

• done and thanks (LM)

• Wording in Lead: An archive relating to veiqia is held at the Fiji Museum, however western museum collections hold many more artefacts relating to the practice than do institutions in its country of origin. Maybe more natural to start the sentence with the museums that own the most? Consider: Museum collections of veiqia artefacts are found in several Western museum collections, as well as the Fiji Museum . On the other hand, if there is a big conflict about this distribution of the artifcacts, then add those words to the sentence: The vast majority of veiqia artefacts are held by Western museums, leading some Fijians to demand their return to Fiji.

• done - i don't know of any specific calls fo the return of veiqia related objects to Fiji (LM)

• @Lajmmoore: That's all I have. I'm ready to support on prose after the above are addressed/resolved (note that some are optional suggestions). I'm excited to see this on the Main Page of Wikipedia some day soon! Noleander (talk) 01:29, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

  Thanks very much @Noleander, I really appreciate the rewording suggestions in particular. Lajmmoore (talk) 21:38, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

@Lajmmoore:There are a couple remaining sentences that still do not sound sufficiently encyclopedic/professional:

• The practice was common prior to the arrival in the 1830s of Christian, and especially Methodist, missionaries who discouraged it. "and especially Methodist" doesnt sound quite right. Not sure how to improve it, tho. Maybe remove those three words from the Lead, and leave the "Methodist" info for the body of the article (where it already is, I think?)
• Combined with the lack of location-specific data in many museum objects, means that understanding of the practice continues to be partial. consider That bias, coupled with the lack of location-specific data for many museum objects, explains why the current understanding of the practice incomplete. or something like that?

Assuming the two items above are addressed ... Changing to "Support". Noleander (talk) 22:50, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks @Noleander I've made those to adjustments - very much appreciated. The final task is the copyright for the images, which I hope to have resolved in the coming week. Lajmmoore (talk) 11:32, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Harry

Hi Lucy! Sorry it's taken me so long to show my face here but glad to see it seems to be progressing. I have just a handful of questions/comments.

• The young woman due to be tattooed had to pay the dauveiqia in masi (tapa cloth), tabua (polished sperm whale teeth) or liku Do we know if these items had monetary value, or was the payment just a token?

• this is a good spot - they weren't currency, so I've changed the language around tabua to "exchanged for service" (LM)

• The tattoo practitioners also had to refrain from sexual relations for one day prior to their work was this just for ritualistic reasons or were there practical reasons for this and the other rituals?

• This isn't explained in the sources - my spider sense is that it was ritual, but nowhere is the reasoning explicit (LM)

• The feast was often paid for by the family of the man who the tattooed woman was intended to marry. feels a bit mealy mouthed but I can't think of an elegant solution off the top of my head.

• I've combined this into the following sentence, and I think it flows a bit better (LM)

• Young women from chiefly families received veiqia and liku at an older age than young women from a lower social status do we know why?
• they only describe "a specific regional overview at a specific time" who/what is this quoting?

Per the MoS on quotations: "[t]he source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion". Emphasis in original. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:43, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

I still think it's a reasonable question even if it's not necessarily a sticking point. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:54, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

It is that, well spotted and raised. FAs are meant to be fully MoS compliant, and there is not much of the MoS emphasised in bold. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:02, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

• thanks both, this is helpful (note to self, check other quotations and MoS) (LM)

• One example is the British anthropologist example of what?

• clarified this (LM)

Note that I've only really looked at prose/MoS because everything I know about the subject I learnt from this excellent article. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:19, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks Harry, I will look at them this week Lajmmoore (talk) 13:40, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks very much HJ Mitchell, I've addressed all these points (although there's one i don't think we have the info to add to Lajmmoore (talk) 09:26, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

I'd love to know more about the significance of the objects exchanged for the work if they had no commercial value, but I completely understand that we're limited by what the sources say. Support, pending resolution of the copyright questions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:11, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:19, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.