User talk:Smasongarrison/Archives/2024

Do not edit this page. This is the archive of User talk:Smasongarrison for the year 2024. (Please direct any additional comments to the current talk page.)
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Administrators' newsletter – January 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2023).

Administrator changes

Clovermoss

Dennis Brown

CheckUser changes

Maxim

Oversighter changes

Maxim

Arbitration

Following the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee: Aoidh, Cabayi, Firefly, HJ Mitchell, Maxim, Sdrqaz, ToBeFree, Z1720.
Following a motion, the Arbitration Committee rescinded the restrictions on the page name move discussions for the two Ireland pages that were enacted in June 2009.
The arbitration case Industrial agriculture has been closed.

Miscellaneous

The New Pages Patrol backlog drive is happening in January 2024 to reduce the backlog of articles in the new pages feed. Currently, there is a backlog of over 13,000 unreviewed articles awaiting review. Sign up here to participate!

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:54, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Foreign-born politicians has been nominated for deletion

Category:Foreign-born politicians has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Bearcat (talk) 16:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1920s battles

A tag has been placed on Category:1920s battles indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:24, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject Medicine Barnstar

Top 10	Top 10 Medical Editor Barnstar 2023
	You were one of the top medical editors on English Wikipedia in 2023. Thank you for your hard work! -Mvolz (talk) 12:30, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Italian polymaths etc.

Hello! I would like to ask you why are the polyhistors related categories proposed for merger? In addition to rationale in general (non-defining?!), I would like a more detailed explanation. What's the difference here compared to, for example, categories of philanthropists or dissidents, which also exist? Thank you for your answer. --Silverije 23:39, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

You are welcome to post about this on the nomination. But in general, Wikipedia:Defining, means that someone is consistently referred to as that characteristic. Furthermore, this category has been deleted several times Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_January_20#Category:Polymaths Mason (talk) 21:43, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer. Firstly, I asked you what's the difference compared to other, very similar categories (e.g. philanthropists, dissidents) which exist? Secondly, this category has been deleted several times because "it was undefined, which allows almost anyone to be included in it if they have demonstrated any sort of ability in more than one discipline or area of life" or so. But if you read the article Polymath, it is clearly defined: an individual whose knowledge spans a substantial number of subjects, known to draw on complex bodies of knowledge to solve specific problems. Furthermore, or last but not least, if a person is mentioned as a polymath in reliable sources, then it should be respected, and that's what the Wikipedia rules say, isn't it? --Silverije 22:57, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I understand that you asked me several questions. I think you'd be better off asking them on the nomination page as they are all related to the nomination/category in question. Mason (talk) 23:18, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Help needed citing List of Harlequin Romance novels

I saw you use AWB to tag {{Unreferenced}} to articles in List of Harlequin Romance novels. Would you like to collaborate citing these entries with corresponding OCLC numbers? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 07:43, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for reaching out. I'm not really interested in adding sources for the romance novels. My interest is more in categories. Good luck with those OCLC. Mason (talk) 01:48, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm tackling this backlog Category:Articles lacking sources from January 2024 and the Harlequin Romance lists appeared in my backlog feed. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 02:06, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

CS1 error on Sexual and gender-based violence in the 7 October attack on Israel

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NPP Awards for 2023

		The New Page Patroller's Barnstar
		For over 100 article reviews during 2023. Well done! Keep up the good work and thank you! Dr vulpes (Talk) 02:40, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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Category diffusion

Hi, you seem to have included Julian Ashton in a category diffusion and identified him as a woman.[1] I am guessing this was either a misreading of the name or a misclick in cat-a-lot. I thought I'd mention it in case you were planning to include him in any more gender-based diffusions. From Hill To Shore (talk) 16:28, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I misread, Julian as Julia, while using cat-a-lot, so your guess is spot on. :) Mason (talk) 19:08, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 14

An automated process has detectedthat when you recently edited Tex Gibbons, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page William Gibbons.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:51, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

7th-century novels

There is still after your merge nomination only 1 article in 7th-century novels. That should probably be merge to 7th-century literature.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

10th and 11th century novelists

These 2 categories, well actually it looks like 6 categories, as a total have 1 article. Not 1 article a piece, rhere is one article on a writer who lived in the 10th and 11th century in Japan who wrote something deemed a novel, and we have 6 categories where the only article is this 1 Category. John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:09, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

The article is in 27 categories, including Japanese literature, which does not seem right for an article in writer categories. The article is in Japanese novelists, so we could merge to 11th-century Japanese writers, which only has 12 articles in total outside the poets sub-cat. I think that would aid navigation a lot. I am actually thinking if we want to aud navigation to pre-1200 novelists a list would be better than a Category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:15, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

thanks! Mason (talk) 02:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

What is "FOOian", please?

Hi, Smasongarrison, now that we've got the BNA Lawyers, Doctors, and Writers tidied up, I had a question. What is "FOOian", please? You used it in this sentence in the deletion proposal: "This is an unhelpful category that encourages individuals being removed from their defining FOOian medical doctor category." I've been trying to think what FOO stands for, without success. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 19:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

FOO is a filler word. In this case it stands in for any nationality category, so "British" medical doctor, "American" medical doctor, "Icelandic" medical doctor etc, are all FOOian medical doctors. It's a shorthand. Mason (talk) 20:01, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah. Thanks. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 21:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Query

Hello, Smasongarrison,

You know more about categories on Wikipedia than I can hope to learn so I come to you with a question. Do you think we need both Category:Texas secessionism‎ and Category:Texas secession movements‎ or should there be some kind of Merge here? Thanks for any opinion you can offer. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:19, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Awww thanks for the compliment! My immediate reaction was that these categories seem extremely similar. So, I took a look at how other countries are categorized within the Category:Separatism by country, which includes a subcategory for Category:Micronations by country. Using this structure, Texas seems more akin to a Micronation in the United States than an actual nation. Notably, most of these categories do not have both a separatist movement and a separatism category. It might only be necessary to have both if there are a lot of separatist movements that are difficult to organize. However, for now, my immediate suggestion is to merge the Category:Texas secession movements‎ into the Category:Texas secessionism‎ category. Mason (talk) 04:15, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry about the above

I am sorry that my above comment was not written in the best tone. I am very sorry about that.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I want Wikipedia to be a place where positive interactions can occur. I hope you will forgive me for the tone of the above post.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:46, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I accept you apology (and there's nothing to forgive). You've made a lot of progress over the years on wikipedia. We both want wikipedia to be a place for positivity. And, I think that it is; heck the fact that we can have this kind of conversation is good evidence for it being a positive place. Mason (talk) 02:52, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Tuberculosis deaths in Kazakhstan

A tag has been placed on Category:Tuberculosis deaths in Kazakhstan indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 14:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Faculty by business school has been nominated for renaming to Category:Academic staff by business school

Category:Faculty by business school has been nominated for renaming to Category:Academic staff by business school. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 15:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Notification: Feedback request service is down

Hello, Smasongarrison/Archives

You may have noticed that you have not received any messages from the Wikipedia:Feedback request service for over a month. Yapperbot appears to have stopped delivering messages. Until that can be resolved, please watch pages that interest you, such as Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikipedia policies and guidelines.

This notification has been sent to you as you are subscribed to the Feedback Request Service. - MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:11, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Fictional characters with eye diseases

Hello, Smasongarrison

According to the CFD closure, it looks like this category was supposed to be Merged but you emptied it and didn't merge the articles to the new category which was never created. Am I reading the CFD decision incorrectly? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:48, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Happy to clarify. So Fictional characters with physical and congenital disorders was mostly dispersed to Category:Fictional characters with disabilities, per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 January 12, so I merged the category there instead. Sorry, I should have documented my reasoning on that. Mason (talk) 19:52, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, the CSD tags on the category page do not have correct links on them. For one, for example, you have Wikipedia:Categories for discussion#Category:Roman Catholic chapels in South Africa linked in one CSD tag. That just directs you to the main WP:CFD main page, not to the CFD discussion about the category. I really appreciate you handling the outcome of closed CFD discussions but it would help if the deletion note had a link to the correct discussion. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:51, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I can do that :) Mason (talk) 01:47, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I finally figured out how to do it! (by reverting Omni's edit), as that's a lot easier than figuring out how to get the template to use the link as intended. Mason (talk) 19:17, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Category query

Hello, Smasongarrison,

I just came across Category:Crime and Punishment in Richmond, Virginia when I was looking at an editor's contributions. I don't think this is how categories concerning locations and crime are titled but you are more familiar with the category hierarchy than I am. Is this okay to leave this as is or should it go to WP:CFD? Thanks. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for passing it along. I suspect that it'll need to be renamed, because the only Crime and Punishment categories are: Category:Crime and Punishment and Category:Crime and punishment in ancient Rome. I'll take a look and see where it should fit, and nominate it. Mason (talk) 23:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Wrong userpage

You posted this message on wrong userpage I think. That user has not edited cats at Karen Roeds. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 03:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Opps! Thanks!! you're right!!! Mason (talk) 03:55, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – February 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2024).

Administrator changes

Bureaucrat changes

Worm That Turned

CheckUser changes

Wugapodes

Interface administrator changes

Guideline and policy news

An RfC about increasing the inactivity requirement for Interface administrators is open for feedback.

Technical news

Pages that use the JSON contentmodel will now use tabs instead of spaces for auto-indentation. This will significantly reduce the page size. (T326065)

Arbitration

Following a motion, the Arbitration Committee adopted a new enforcement restriction on January 4, 2024, wherein the Committee may apply the 'Reliable source consensus-required restriction' to specified topic areas.
Community feedback is requested for a draft to replace the "Information for administrators processing requests" section at WP:AE.

Miscellaneous

Voting in the 2024 Steward elections will begin on 06 February 2024, 14:00 (UTC) and end on 27 February 2024, 14:00 (UTC). The confirmation process of current stewards is being held in parallel. You can automatically check your eligibility to vote.
A vote to ratify the charter for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is open till 2 February 2024, 23:59:59 (UTC) via Secure Poll. All eligible voters within the Wikimedia community have the opportunity to either support or oppose the adoption of the U4C Charter and share their reasons. The details of the voting process and voter eligibility can be found here.
Community Tech has made some preliminary decisions about the future of the Community Wishlist Survey. In summary, they aim to develop a new, continuous intake system for community technical requests that improves prioritization, resource allocation, and communication regarding wishes. Read more
The Unreferenced articles backlog drive is happening in February 2024 to reduce the backlog of articles tagged with {{Unreferenced}}. You can help reduce the backlog by adding citations to these articles. Sign up to participate!

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Excessively same categories

I have noticed that we havd some categories where people ofen end up in 6 or more related ones. At that point it become questionalble they are defining. I almost think there should be a way to create a rule against thos. One is coaches by college. Some people are literally in over 10 categories. This often involves 1 season placements as a liw coverage coach. I outlined a proposal for restructuring that on my talk page. Basically we would change the by college categories to bd by head coach, and then gave offensive, defensive and a few other coach type xategories. With sports expatriates we have a situation where people in say Expatriarlte Czech sportspeople in Mexico will also be in say Expatriate footballees in Mexico, so one article for a person who played for teams in 6 countries will be in 12 categories for this. I think in this xase just being in Expatriate Czech sportspeople would be enough.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:45, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Hmmmm... I'll think about it. You make some good points, but it might be helpful to think through this counterargument. Is the purpose of categories to help navigation between pages or to help organize pages? If the only purpose is to add labels to pages, then your proposal makes sense. However, does it really matter whether a page is in a lot of categories, if the goal is to help users navigate from a page to a category to another page? Mason (talk) 04:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:American military sports coaches Category Talk

This category has 62 suc-cats and 6 articles. 31 of those sub-cats have 1 article. None have over 12 articles. I am also not sure this is defining. A lot of these categories are also American college football coaches. I am not sure this is right. I am not sure this is defining. In the Barksdale case that part of the career of the man who is the one article in the Category is only mentioned in a table, not even in the article text.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:05, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

What you're writing seems reasonable... I just wish I knew enough about football coaches to give you some guidance. I bet @Omnis Scientia knows more about this? (I know that they're more into baseball, but at minimum they have sports knowledge). Mason (talk) 05:16, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison, firstly I believe category title is misleading. These are all football coaches (even the two NOT named "football coaches") so it should be "military football coaches". But it should be noted these are also part of Category:College football coaches in the United States. So I would say, until there are more categories, we should merge the categories with 1-to-3 articles with the parent category and have the category renamed to "American military football coaches". Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:54, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't say deletely because it is part of Category:Military sport in the United States as well. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:59, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Categ.: Early photographers in Palestine

Hi. I see you're on a big move on rearranging photographers-related categories. I've been personally very much involved in this world, as I am now in topics relating to Israel & Palestine. A go-to category for colonial-era (Ottoman and British) photography in Palestine has proven to be missing and very much needed for lots of activities, and very useful once there. Please do read my reply to your, practically, elimination request, so I don't need to repeat my arguments here. My message to you now is just an attempt of explaining how this category is far from being an abstract and failed attempt at adding yet another impractical, theoretical systematisation item with a very questionable definition and arbitrary limits. No, it grew out of a real-life need, but can also be supported with theoretical arguments, not less valid thany any museographer's who is organising the existing collections and dedicating the available museum halls after a mix of pragmatic and analytic criteria.

Thanks for taking the time. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 14:24, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the context. I wouldn't say that I'm on a "big move", I just happened to stumble into the category. Mason (talk) 15:46, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:10th-century priests

Category:10th-century priests seems to be an abandoned start. I have proposed speedy merging to Christian clergy at WP:CFDS. – Fayenatic London 14:30, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea. Mason (talk) 15:44, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Also, I have now got round to Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_3#Priests_by_nationality. – Fayenatic London 16:09, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

John D. Naylor

John D. Naylor is the only article in 5 categories related to Beacon/Goldey-Beacon College. It merged and changed its name, I am not sure if that happened while he was employed there. This seems excessive.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:52, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out! I think he was effectively the only coach, and the college merged at some point. I've made a nomination for a merge, which should at least help slim it down. Mason (talk) 19:48, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

The mess that is College football coach categories

Some of these coaches have coached at over 10 colleges, only being at some for 1 season. I really do not think that all such assignments are defining. Especially since some stay as offensive coordinator, or running backs coach at several places in a row. In those cases I think the specific type of coach is defining but the place coached is not. There is a huge amount of overcategorization in this set of categories. My attempts to bring some order are bring attacked as going against how things have been done over a decade. A system that regularly places articles in 10 or more categories for being a college football coach and pairs this with dozens of such categories with 5 or fewer articles is systemically flaed and needs to change. Most of the extremely small cats are in NCAA Division III, defunct or NAIA categories, or the junior college Category. There may be several categories in there that we really do not need.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Stan Drayton is the extreme in this. He literally coached at 12 colleges, 10 of them as running backs coach. I really think that is what idms defining in most cases, not the particular schools he worked for.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Yep, I've already starting seeing some arguments that a merge who ruin the current coaches system. I'll see how this nom goes, but I'm starting to agree with you at least for the extremely tiny categories. I personally don't see the harm in having individual coaches in a lot of categories, as long as there are enough people in the category. But, I'll keep looking around in coaches. Definitely let me know if there are any other category messes like the Beacon/Goldey-Beacon. I'll be sure to take a look and see if it should be nominated. (I want to make it very clear that I'm not being a meat puppet for you, or that this is circumventing your editing restriction.) Mason (talk) 20:18, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

When someone was at a place as one of a large coaching staff for just 1 year I do not think that is defining. On the other hand I am thinking there are too many coaching positions. I think we need to simplify to only a few. I think in a different spirt we limited the coaches by team to the head coaches. I think that might be a better approach in college football.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:25, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

UC San Diego Tritons football

This is a defunct team. There is only one article on a coach. The Category is currently no.inated for upmerger or such. I wonder if merging the 1 article directly into College coaches of defunct teams in the United States might be OK with editors who object to directly placing articles in College football coaches in the United States. The Junior college football coaches in the United States Category directly has about 137 articles so there is a relevant precedent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:01, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Junior College football coaches in the United States

This category has 237 direct articles. I have yet to see anyone even try to explain why this category can have direct articles but the parent Category College football coaches in the United States cannot. We do not directly place people in an undifferentiated alumni category, but we do place people in the heads of universities in x country categories. Being a head of a university is a defining part of virtually every biography, at least if they are more than a figurehead. Going to college not really unless it allows for dome sort of grouping. Football coaches we seem to have divided by level they coached at, so it seems that there is no reason bot to place them there.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:52, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Matt Dyson

Matt Dyson is the only article in George Mason Patriots football. We do not have any other articles on the subject.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:57, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

2 other George Mason Patriots coaches categories also only gave 1 article, and another category had 2 articles. The College men's basketball coaches in the United States has 4 direct biographical articles, so there does not seem to be an actual precedent that the college coach categories cannot hold direct articles. What really worries me in some of these is when people act like moving for 1 article in a category to 2 or 3 makes things all right. We need more stringent ways to end small categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:04, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

One of the 1 article George Mason Patriots categories is George Mason Track and Field coaches. There are 259 direct articles in College track and field coaches in the United States. Yet of the 163 sub-categories, 63 have just 1 article. Several havd only 2 or 3, I didn't bother to count those. This might be a record number if 1 article categories in a tree. Although probably not.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:10, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll check these out Mason (talk) 21:18, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

College sports coaches in the United States

The more I look at this, the more of a mess it is. There are some sports, such as rifle, where not even one of the sub-cats has even 4 articles. The whole thing is a huge mess to say the least.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:03, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree, it is extremely messy! Mason (talk) 21:18, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Century categories are not really good for articles

I do not think we want to be putting articles directly in 20th-century Indian people or 21st-century Indian people. This just leads to too many categories. At any point the average life span is over 50, this will lead to most people being in multiple categories. Some editors will place based on birth and death years alone. I an less than convinced that we need any by century categories gor the 20th or 21st century, but I do not think we want to place biographical articles in ones that intersect nationality and the century. If an occupation is not being diffused by century just place people in thd occupation and nationality cat, but please do not send them up to the nationslity and century cat.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Drafting technicians

I think Drafter is an example of an article that has too ambiguous a name. It is clear enough from the article, but there are other uses of the word. We have a set of categories for conductors (music), since there are other uses of the word conductor, as a think in electronic and thermodynamics and as a person on a train, and potentially other uses related to the word conducting and those doing it. I think with drafter we may also need a disambiguation heading.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

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2	Léot of Brechin (talk)	Stub
35	Lundin Links (talk)	Stub

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Fooian fooers

Just a request to please be careful when you make changes to the {{fooian fooers}} templates in British categories, because you left a large trail of redlinked categories that don't exist behind you.

It's not that your code is wrong, it's that sometimes what was already there interacts with your code incorrectly if it was varying from standard — before the code you're adding to the template was enabled, the common workaround to avoid duplicate categorization in the UK was to change the profession= from "X" to "British X", which causes your new code to generate "British british X" instead of "British X" as the category and thus created obvious silliness like Category:British british numismatists and Category:British british comedy writers.

There were also a couple of cases of categories that weren't double-British nonsense at all but just don't actually exist to have subcategories filed in them, such as Category:British astrological writers and Category:British song collectors.

So basically, after every edit, you need to double-check to ensure that you haven't accidentally caused the page to become filed in categories that don't exist — if you have, then you need to either create the category if it's justifiable, or fix the code if it's double-British nonsense, and don't just walk away leaving the page sitting in redlinked categories. Again, it's not that your code is wrong, it's that sometimes what was already there interacts with your code incorrectly if it was wrong, so just please be aware and watch out for that. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 17:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

My bad. I'll trackback through my work and reevaluate my workflow, as well as think through how avoid things like this happening in the future. Mason (talk) 17:22, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I've already caught everything that was picked up by Special:WantedCategories as of this morning, so don't worry about having to go back and review everything you've already done — just keep an eye on it in the future as much as possible. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 17:26, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm still going to go through at least a handful of them so I can figure out how to prevent (ok... more like reduce the chances of ) this happing again. Mason (talk) 17:28, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, for the time being could you avoid making any major changes to Dominican Republic categories? You edited Category:19th-century Dominican Republic women writers yesterday to change it from manually-coded templates-plus-categories to the standard {{Women writers by nationality and century category header}} — but again through no fault of your own, this had the undesirable side effect of causing the proper Dominican Republic categories to become replaced with mostly-redlinked Dominica categories. But, of course, Dominica and the Dominican Republic are actually two separate countries with their own separate category trees that can't be mixed up like that.
Again, you didn't do anything wrong, and just kind of stumbled into another situation where doing a perfectly rational thing imported an error that was caused by other people somewhere else — it's a mistake in the category generation module that needs to be repaired, rather than a mistake you made. I've already reported it to WP:VPT to get it looked at, but could you just avoid making changes like that to Dominican Republic categories until it does get fixed? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 18:47, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Will do! And thanks for emphasizing that the coding error is larger than my changes. :) Mason (talk) 19:11, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Okay, the Dominican Republic problem has been fixed, so you can resume making changes to those categories now. I have to imagine it's kind of frustrating to have so many things happen in such a short time where you did the right thing and it caused silly other problems that weren't actually your fault at all, but I guess it's improving the encyclopedia since we'd never find these things to fix them if nobody ever walked into them by accident (*grin*) Bearcat (talk) 21:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
That was so fast! Thank you for being proactive about getting this fixed :) (And no worries, my frustration was spend reviving my desktop today, after a windows update messed up something. And... finally, my PC lives! So from my perspective, this is a nice bonus fix that worked out really well in terms of timing.) Mason (talk) 21:12, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Oh, yuck. I had the same happen to me last week, so I can definitely relate. But that also means that the latest Windows update is probably corrupted itself, in turn meaning that was just another version of the same problem! (Damn trickster gods!) Bearcat (talk) 21:44, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Suppress categories

Just wondering why you added {{suppress categories}} to Category:17th-century bishops in the Holy Roman Empire and some others. It looks like the categories you then added are the same as those the template is suppressing. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:07, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I think at the time, I hadn't fixed the template to check if the country existed, so it would break a lot. The template I'm using to grab country names doesn't handle many non-modern countries, like the HRE etc. Mason (talk) 23:13, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Templates

The templates you have created on Bishops, writers and LGBT people are causing an error in Category:Portal templates with redlinked portals if the country portal does not exist. Would it be possible to make them to only add a country portal if it exists? Lyndaship (talk) 18:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll definitely try to do that. Do you happen to know of any examples of templates that check before adding? Mason (talk) 20:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Templates are a bit beyond me but another editor User:Aidan721 who I contacted did a change on this template Template:Sports clubs and teams in Fooland category header/inner core which fixed a similar issue. }

Hello Smasongarrison/Archives, { even though all three exist at the Kazakhstani/Turkmenistani/Uzbekistani forms.

Because these were template-generated categories that I can't manually fix, I've had to revert your edit for the moment to put the contents back where they're supposed to be — if you want to redo the edit, can you please take some care to ensure that it doesn't move existing categories to redlinked forms? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 15:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies! I had done some troubleshooting, but clearly not enough. I think I need to build the new template more incrementally. Thanks for catching and fixing it. ^SMason_Garrison 15:07, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Please also note that Category:Australian academics was transcluding the nonexistent {{Title continental2}} and Category:Australian. Please fix these problems when you develop the updated templates. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

thanks. I definitely will. I think an else statement must have gotten misaligned. My plan is to roll the core template back to something less complex and then slowly build it up like I did for Template:Occupation by nationality and century category header. ^SMason_Garrison 18:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Laurel

I received your comments on Laurel. I don't think being in Vogue is trivial and is in fact independent. Gregpolk (talk) 18:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I recommend reviewing the criteria for notability, because I don't think Laurel Charleston meets the notability criteria. I did not say anything about being in Vogue, so I don't understand what comments you're referring to. ^SMason_Garrison 19:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Kyriakos Amiridis

Kyriakos Amiridis is a perfect illustration of over categorization leading to difficult navigation for articles. He is currently in the categories Greek diplomats, Greek Ambassadors to Brazil and another Greek Ambassadors Category. He is the only article in either of those Greek Ambassadors to x categories. All Ambassadors are by definition diplomats, so we should diffuse Ambassadors out of the x country diplomats Category. So we can put him in Ambassadors of Greeks, Ambassadors to Brazil and the one other Ambassafor Category. This will give us 3 categories that actually will aide navigation between his article and other articles. It will need to bd proposed at AfD. I also think we should rename Greek diplomats to Diplomats for Greece or maybe Diplomats of Greece. I am sure what we care about here is that thry were employed by Greece as diplomats. We do not care if they ever stepped on Greek soil, or if they were actually Dano-Germanic members of the Royal house, if they were acting as diplomats for Greece we want then in the catehory. On the other hand if they were Greek born who had newly arrived in Washington DC and were hired to work for the US state department then we want then in Diplomats for the United States, not Greek diplomats. In theory there might be some use to group together French nationals, or Spanish nationals, or any other nationals of a given country who were diplomats for the UN, or otherwise diplomats not for their home country, but I think we should make sure because of overlap Category issues to exclude the direct placement of diplomats for France in such a category, and I think we would want to make sure we actually have enough French nationals serving as diplomats not for France, etc. Before creating the category. Ralph Bunche is for example someone who would go in American diplomats as he was an American who worked as a diplomat for the UN but was not a diplomat for the United States. Currently the American diplomats Category mainly overlaps with the contents under Ambassadors of the United Ststes, but it does also contain some people who held diplomatic office without having been an ambassador. I am not sure that for all these people that office is defining. Some of them are primarily notable for being elected politicians, involved in acting or other things and it is not clear their brief time with the diplomatic corps is defining. The person who comes to mind the fastest is Ahirly Temple Black, but since she was at one point chief protocol officer I suspect her diplomatic career is defining *she may have also been an ambassador). It is hard to say if she would be notable without her acting career, and since she was actress long before she was a diplomat it is impossible to do the "can we find enough sources just on her diplomatic career" because many of the sources that exist are of the "where is this actress now" type. However I think the length of her diplomatic career makes it defining. However not every job anyone has ever had is defining, and this applies as much to people who briefly worked for the US state department as for people who were briefly a flight attendant or who passed the bar exam but moved on to some other endeavor after maybe being involved in 1 or 2 cases that were of no real note, and their involvement as a junior lawyer at the law firm may have mattered little.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

My immediate response is that it doesn't seem that problematic. I think that the solution would be to diffuse by century. I have to think more about this though, you've got some good points in here. ^SMason_Garrison 02:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

For example Filip Grzegorzewski who was head of an EU cooperative office is a Polish national who worked as a diplomat, but is not a diplomat for Poland. I think these are 2 separate things. I also think the high rate of the Diplomats for x also being x nationals who are diplomats means we really should apply overlap cat rules and not place Diplomats for x in the x nationals who are diplomats Category for the sane country.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Then there are the various diplomats by city category. In the case of Poland several of these are Israeli diplomats who were raised in that city, and at least 1 is a Soviet diplomat. I think if we leaved these under Diplomats by nationality, and created a separate diplomats by country scheme it would lessen the confusion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Hmmm, that's not a bad idea. It would be similar to how we do clergy by country of work. Could you post your suggestion on a visible talk page? That way you could get feedback/sense of how other people feel about it before you spend a lot of time organizing. ^SMason_Garrison 16:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Do you have a good idea of what talk page to use. We already had Diplomats of the Polish People's Republic, so I placed that in Diplomats by country of origin. I will see if there is a related Wikiproject.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
I am going to post it at the categorization talk page. I did post a note that I would post it at the international relations Wikiproject page. If you can think of anywhere else to post it and do so that would be good.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
It is actually Wikipedia:Wikiproject Categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:17, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Great! I think that the Wikipedia:Wikiproject Categories is the perfect spot for it! (And I think it's great to see you seeking opinions of others on categorization changes!!!!) ^SMason_Garrison 16:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Mohamed Larbi Zitout

The article Mohamed Larbi Zitout is the only one in the category Algerian Ambassadors to Lidya. However no where in that article does it say Zitout was an ambassador to Lidya. It says he was a "civil servant" in Lidya, which appears to be an irregular way to say he was working for Algeria as a diplomat there. That is not the same as being an ambassador. I would remove him from the category, because he does not belong, but I do not want to do an out of process emptying. He should be removed from the category because it is not justified.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Good find! I did a little digging into the sourcing, and I think you're right. I've nominated the category, thank you for drawing my attention to it. ^SMason_Garrison 22:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Politicians arrested in categories

I think these are worse than you suggest. People are often arrested in places where thry are not from, abd even in places where thry are not charged. So location of where you are arrested is trivial. Being arrested is also not defining. Where you are arrested even more so.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Austrian Ambassadors to Norway

The category Austrian Ambassadors to Norway consists of Klemens von Metternich. There are several issues here. 1- Ambassadors are a by country office, so Austrian Ambassadors means Ambassadors if the Austrian state formed in 1918. We have a different Ambassadors of the Austrian Empire for people in the time of Merrernich. 2- No where in the article does it say Metternich was ambassador to Norway. It appears he was Ambassador to Saxony and Ambassador to France. He was appointed to be Ambassador to the Russian Empire but never took up that office going to France instead. So it looks like Metternich does not belong so we should delete the category as empty.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Austrian Ambassadors to Poland

This category consists of Benedikt de Caché, who fails to be a proper person for inclusion. He is currently in Category:Diplomats of the Habsburg monarchy, which seems correct. He far pre-dates Austria as the state sending Ambassadors. He also would not have bern sent to Piland but to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:12, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Austrian Ambassadors to Sweden

This category has no one in it who fits the category. There is one who was an ambassador of the Austrian Empire to Sweden. I have placed him in Ambassadors of the Austrian Empire. Then there is a 1 article sub-cat of Ambassadors of Austria-Hungary to Sweden. We probably should rearrange things do that is upmerged to Ambassadors to Sweden and Ambassadors of the Austria-Hungary, and merge the 1 direct article to Ambassadors to Sweden.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Ambassadors of Belize

This category I think has 9 total articles, of which only 8 are Biographical and then 1 list. Those articles are spread across 21 total sub-cats. The largest sub-cat has 4 articles, 1 list and 3 Biographical articles. It seems that all this could be in 1 category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:45, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Arlette Dagnon Vignikin

Arlette Dagnon Vignikin is in 7 Ambassadors categories. 1 does not apply. She was not ambassador to China, but held a low level appointment. Since she is the only contents of that category I am not removing her. The other categories are all also 1 entry categories, and all being held at once.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:47, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

CS1 error on Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243

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Bautista Saavedra

Bautista Saavedra is in the categories Bolivian Ambassadors to Belgium and Bolivian Ambassadors to the Netherlands. There is no mention of him having held either office in the article. We need to remove him from both categories since we should not have articles in categories not supported by the text. He is the only article in both categories however.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:16, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

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Ambassadors of Palau

This category has 10 articles, 8 Biographical and 2 lists. They are spread across 7 sub-cats. No sub-cat has more than 3 articles. By ambassador standards this is actually not a overly used category, since most people seem to at most only been holders of 2 different ambassadorships. It is small enough that A-it is pretty clear we can upmerge everything just to Ambassadors of Palau with no problem. B-as far as I can tell all the assignments her were resident Ambassadors, so upmerging to both makes sense and C- this is so small everywhere having any subcats does not make sense. I think this would a doable case of nominating all 7 categories for upmerger.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:55, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Diego Dublé Urrutia

Diego Dublé Urrutia in the article the only ambassador level posting it mentions is Ecuador. He is also in the Chilean Ambassadors to Cuba Category. The article does not even mention that he was ever in Cuba. It does say he had 17 diplomatic postings, but it seems most were not as ambassador. He is the only article in Ambassadors of Chile to Cuba, so the category should be deleted as having no appropriate contents.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Ambassadors of Abkazia

This category has 1 sub-cat which in turn has 1 article. I think we should at least upmerge the sub-cat to Ambassadors of Abkazia and Ambassadors to Russia. However he was also a foreign minister for Abkazia. He is the only person in all of Abkazian diplomats not just in the Foreign Minister cat. I am tempted to say we should just upmerge him to Ambassadors to Russia, and delete Ambassadors if Abkazia fully, since he will still be in the Foreign ministers cat, but that might be going too far. There is clearly no reason to have a category and a sub-category to hold just 1 article altogether.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:23, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Category:Foreign nationals imprisoned in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Massimo Baistrocchi

Massimo Baistrocchi is in 5 or 6 categories for being an ambassador. All except one only have him, and the 1 with someone else has 2 people. I think upmerging to Ambassadors of Italy and the respective Ambassadors to categories would greatly aid navigation.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Consuls

At Wikipedia:Wikiproject categories I posted some questions regarding the name and scope of Category:Consuls you may want to comment on.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Reverts

Hi there. I noticed you reverted some of my edits and thought it would be best to leave a message here before I started addressing them. For the sake of clarity, I'll just go point-by-point so I can discuss them with you individually.

With regards to Robert Livingston the Elder, the article notes he was born in Scotland before coming to New York, and was only recorded engaging in the slave trade in 1690. As Livingston was neither born in colonial New York nor engaged in the slave trade (supposedly) past the year 1699, I was under the impression that the cats "Category:Merchants from colonial New York" and "Category:18th-century British slave traders" were not applicable. Perhaps they are meant to be included anyway? I will freely admit to being less familiar with cats than you are, so any explanation you can provide me will be helpful for the future.

With regards to Jean Joseph de Laborde, Marquis of Laborde and Diplomacy in the American Revolutionary War, you didn't provide any explanation as to why my edits were unhelpful; again, any explanation you can provide me will be helpful for the future.

With regards to John Thurber, again, since the article doesn't provide evidence for his slave-trading activities past 1699 I was under the impression that the "Category:18th-century slave traders" was not applicable. Any explanation here again will be greatly appreciated.

Regards, DonBeroni (talk) 10:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

I literally made posts about this on your talk page explaining the problem I had. Including asking that you use edit summaries. For the record,[2] "Seriously, none of your recent edits include a substantive edit summary. Please include something substantive because you're making pretty sizable changes without any explanation. I've made several reverts because it's not clear why the change is being made." ^SMason_Garrison 14:18, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People charged with apostasy

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