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Fearless Teller of Truths and Objective3000 have added the sentence to the introduction: "These policies are generally agreed to be Fascist in nature and have been widely likened to the early Nazi regime." This should be removed or substantially changed, as this is a polemic political argument, not widely accepted. T g7 (talk) 14:25, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Fearless Teller of Truths is a blocked sock. I mistakenly restored part of his vandalism while attempting to remove many of their posts from multiple articles. O3000, Ret. (talk) 15:26, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Somebody just changed it to "Critics have considered these deportations to be Fascist in nature and have likened them to the early Nazi regime." This is better, but I still don't think it belongs prominently in the introduction. T g7 (talk) 15:36, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This article's overall neutrality is only going to get harder to moderate as the days go on.
WP editors should not be including conclusions about how people feel or their own interpretations unless it is coming from a reputable claim source. "Surveys show people feel X way about this" "This organization said it's bad"
It's contentious and we all have our opinions so we need to help keep one another in check. But it's hard as more / larger edits are getting made. Especially the +80K edit that just happened moments ago that im still reviewing.
What we shouldn't do is take a leaning statement and then make it lean the other way, while making the same neutrality mistakes, then claim it's "fixed."
Hi Irruptive Creditor, I agree that some of my edits may have bloated the lead to much. What is your opinion on the following addition?
1. The Trump administration has sought to use the Alien Enemies Act to summarily deport migrants without due process,[1] including sending migrants to be imprisoned in El Salvador which was halted by federal judges and the Supreme Court.[2][3]
I think this is due enough a mention in the lead.
Sources
^Cite error: The named reference Ward 04282025 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^Cite error: The named reference ManganCNBC4.10 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^Cite error: The named reference AP 04192025 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
Oh, I don't think that mentioning the legal controversies can't be done in the lede. I just saw that that content was substantially similar (if not outright recopied) from content already put in the body. It could be shortened to something as: "The Trump administration deportation practices have encountered legal issues and elicited controversy with legal scholars. [Cite] [Cite].". Irruptive Creditor (talk) 20:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@BootsED, just did it as: "The administration's detention and deportation practices have faced legal issues and elicited controversy with lawyers, judges, and legal scholars." Irruptive Creditor (talk) 20:59, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In regards to your recent edits, I don't mean to dispute your source stating that the Supreme Court ruled that AEA deportations must allow for limited due process. The Supreme Court came to that ruling following violations when immigrants were deported with no due process. Thus, saying that the administration has used the AEA to deport with limited or no due process is correct and accounts for the totality of deportations under the act. BootsED (talk) 12:17, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Why can’t you use the term illegal immigrant to describe deportation of people who are here illegally? They may be really great people. But the fact is they’re illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are a particular type of immigrant in case anyone needed to know. An immigrant is someone who comes to another country not their own. And an illegal immigrant is someone who does that illegally. And, it is important to be unburdened by what has been so that you can be free to think about the significance of the passage of time. Adjectives describe nouns and the adjective illegal describes the noun immigrant (a person), which is why the pushing of the phrase no human is illegal is based in illiteracy.
Wikipedia contains pages named Illegal immigration (Redirected from Illegal immigrant // Redirected from Undocumented immigrant) and Alien (law) (Redirected from resident alien). If entire articles define what those terms mean, the use of those terms in an appropriate neutral context should be permitted without contest.
All of the following phrases are clearly objectively interchangeable: undocumented immigrant, unauthorized immigrant, illegal alien, illegal immigrant, undocumented noncitizen. In the context of tone, we should strive to use the most accurate phrase, or in this case perhaps whichever the law uses in its vocabulary.
Colloquially they all mean the same thing, regardless of whether one person wants one or another phrase used. Unfortunately for Wikipedia, the use of the words themselves - despite being interchangeable - have become a point of contention (in spite of their definitions being the same). Armeym (talk) 00:30, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not sure what the point of this response is. The point of the suggestion was that we use adjectives like illegal in front of this special category of immigrants. The response here is talking about additional adjectives such as undocumented when those adjectives aren’t even being used either. 198.245.101.13 (talk) 01:16, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
198.245.101.13, you are in error. This article does not 'hide the truth' as you claim by omitting the term 'illegal immigrant', since the article does no such thing.
In the lead it even uses the phrase: "Pew Research Center reports that the total population of illegal immigrants in the U.S. is estimated at 11 million in 2022, with California continuing, as compared to ten years prior, to have the largest population".
Rather, your edits were reverted as they are simply inaccurate. When considered in light of lines such as: "It has targeted activists, lawful permanent residents, tourists, and students with visas who expressed criticism of Trump policies or engaged in pro-Palestinian advocacy."
The term 'illegal immigrant' cannot be used throughout the article, since to refer to a lawful permanent resident as an illegal immigrant would be inaccurate and preposterous.
As for Armeym, I likewise see little merit to their commentary. That 'illegal immigrant' is considered contentious by that user is irrelevant.
