Template:Did you know nominations/Sri Jumahaliah Hanifa
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Launchballer talk 18:03, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
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Sri Jumahaliah Hanifa
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Sri Jumahaliah Hanifa
- ... that Sri Jumahaliah Hanifa was the first woman dean of the University of Indonesia law school? Source: Oppusunggu, Yu Un (1 January 2008). "In Memoriam Prof. Mr. Dr. Sudargo Gautama". Jurnal Hukum & Pembangunan.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Beringia (dog sled race)
- Comment: If possible, please include the image alongside the hook, I'm ok with waiting for a while until the image could be included!
Created by Jeromi Mikhael (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 71 past nominations.
Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 07:03, 28 March 2025 (UTC).
The article is new enough and long enough and adequately sourced. I did not find any close paraphrasing. All but one source is in Indonesian and offline so AGF. The picture is okay and properly licensed. However, while a QPQ has been provided, it is an incomplete review (it only checked for interestingness and length but not all of the criteria, whether explicitly or implicitly). The article does not mention her date of death, but apparently the obituary does give a date in 2008? My Indonesian is very basic and rusty, and the Google Translate translation is ambiguous: was the 2008 date her date of death, or when they learned the news of her death? Finally, I'm not really that big of a fan of the hook: is there nothing else about her that can be said? If there are no other options, we can probably go with it, but I just want to know if you have any other options. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Whew! Thank you for the very extensive and thorough review. I think I have to adress some of your points: regarding the QPQ, I've checked all references given, the shortness of the hook, and there aren't much to comment about other aspects of the article other than its interestingness and length. Regarding the obituary, it wasn't her obituary; it was another law professor's obituary. In the second-to-last page of the obituary, there is this statement: Sebagai seorang Guru Besar, Prof. Gautama memiliki sejumlah asisten. Di antara mereka adalah almh. Ny. S. J. Hanifah Wiknjosastro, S.H., yang menjadi dekan wanita pertama di FHUI periode 1978-1984 (As a Professor, Prof. Gautama had a number of assistants. Among them was the late Mrs. S. J. Hanifah Wiknjosastro, S.H., who became the first female dean at FHUI for the period 1978-1984.) Lastly, regarding the hook, I don't think there's any other options, since the article's size barely passes the DYK threshold. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 12:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- For the QPQ review, please make the checks explicit in the nomination as a promoter or other editor could reject the QPQ as being insufficiently complete. I'm also not sure if the "- ?" thing in the lede is how we treat people with known dates of birth but no known dates of death, so I found that weird. If that's standard practice then I'll let it slide, and it's not really a DYK issue anyway. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:33, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Hi uhh forgot to follow up on this. The Eeringia DYK has appeared on the mainpage a week ago with all issues fixed. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael
- @Narutolovehinata5: Where are we with this one?--Kevmin § 17:02, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Apologies for the delay. To be honest, I held back on approving this because I was confused with the statement above regarding Eeringia's running and I wasn't sure how that was related to this. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: It appears they may have thought that this nomination was some how contingent on the Beringia (dog sled race), which they QPQ'd, posting to the main page without issues.--Kevmin § 14:16, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- I see. I'm still not sure how to treat the lead though given that we have a known date of birth but not a date of death: asking RoySmith if he has any ideas. That is my last remaining concern so once that's resolved this nomination will be approved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:38, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- Being the first woman dean of the law school seems like a non-controversial statement. According to Faculty of Law, University of Indonesia, the law school was founded in 1909, so when she was appointed dean in 1978, the school was 70 years old, so probably they'd just had a handful of deans by that time so it's not hard to figure out which one was the first woman. I would, however, change the hook to say "first woman dean" instead of the somewhat ambiguous "first woman to head". What does it mean to be the "head"? Dean? Chair of the department? Provost? Just go with what the source says and avoid all that. RoySmith (talk) 13:39, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: Actually, that wasn't my concern. My concern was how to treat the lead considering she is deceased but we only know her date of birth and not her date of death. Seeing "Sri Jumahaliah Hanifa Wiknyosastro (born 7 November 1924) was" feels weird to me and I'm not sure if this is the standard way of introducing deceased figures who have a known birth date but not a death date. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:10, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- Ah, I don't know the answer to that. I've asked at WT:WikiProject Biography RoySmith (talk) 15:18, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- If she was reported dead, that should be added with a ref, and the date of the report (as we often say "baptised if we known that date but not the dob, see Beethoven). If there was no report, we should not speculate but leave as is.) --12:52, 24 May 2025 (UTC)Gerda Arendt (talk)
- In the hook, I'd just give the year instead of first - expecting readers to know that it was rare at the time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: I dont feel that the lack of an explicit death date should have been reason for stalling the nom more. a simple wording addition of (born 7 November 1924 - death date unknown(citation)) will fix that, and lacking a birth or death date is a frequent situation.--Kevmin § 19:12, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
- Apologies for that: I was never planning to stall the nomination for as long as it did, I had just been waiting for a response to my concern and one did not come immediately. The nomination can be approved if the status quo is not an issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:30, 30 May 2025 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: Actually, that wasn't my concern. My concern was how to treat the lead considering she is deceased but we only know her date of birth and not her date of death. Seeing "Sri Jumahaliah Hanifa Wiknyosastro (born 7 November 1924) was" feels weird to me and I'm not sure if this is the standard way of introducing deceased figures who have a known birth date but not a death date. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:10, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- Being the first woman dean of the law school seems like a non-controversial statement. According to Faculty of Law, University of Indonesia, the law school was founded in 1909, so when she was appointed dean in 1978, the school was 70 years old, so probably they'd just had a handful of deans by that time so it's not hard to figure out which one was the first woman. I would, however, change the hook to say "first woman dean" instead of the somewhat ambiguous "first woman to head". What does it mean to be the "head"? Dean? Chair of the department? Provost? Just go with what the source says and avoid all that. RoySmith (talk) 13:39, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- I see. I'm still not sure how to treat the lead though given that we have a known date of birth but not a date of death: asking RoySmith if he has any ideas. That is my last remaining concern so once that's resolved this nomination will be approved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:38, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: It appears they may have thought that this nomination was some how contingent on the Beringia (dog sled race), which they QPQ'd, posting to the main page without issues.--Kevmin § 14:16, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
- Apologies for the delay. To be honest, I held back on approving this because I was confused with the statement above regarding Eeringia's running and I wasn't sure how that was related to this. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Where are we with this one?--Kevmin § 17:02, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Hi uhh forgot to follow up on this. The Eeringia DYK has appeared on the mainpage a week ago with all issues fixed. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael
- For the QPQ review, please make the checks explicit in the nomination as a promoter or other editor could reject the QPQ as being insufficiently complete. I'm also not sure if the "- ?" thing in the lede is how we treat people with known dates of birth but no known dates of death, so I found that weird. If that's standard practice then I'll let it slide, and it's not really a DYK issue anyway. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:33, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
In the interest of this nomination moving forward, since it is already over two months old, I will be approving this as I do not think the lede issue is a problem for DYK. Whatever happens with that issue can be discussed outside DYK. I have also modified the hook per the above statement. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:04, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- @Jeromi Mikhael: Given that this is a "first" hook, do you have a list of University of Indonesia law school deans that we can double check, just to make sure that the claim is airtight? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:05, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Sure, you can check it at the Article project I section of my userpage. here's a photowall of all of the deans of the faculty, with Sri Hanifa at the first row and second column Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 07:21, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
- @Jeromi Mikhael: Given that this is a "first" hook, do you have a list of University of Indonesia law school deans that we can double check, just to make sure that the claim is airtight? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:05, 2 June 2025 (UTC)