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Talk:Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast

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New Official Map Available

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The Russian administration posted a new official map on their website, it should be added to the page, probably along with a section about the adminstrative divisions.

https://khogov.ru/o-hersonskoj-oblasti/ CactusCartocratus (talk) 05:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oblast

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Hi

In August 2024, Occupation and annexation have been replaced by oblast. Panam2014 (talk) 02:48, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This took place in August 2022. I would prefer that we move Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast to Kherson Oblast (Russia), following the example of Russian occupation of Donetsk Oblast and Russian occupation of Luhansk Oblast, which redirect to Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 18:06, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kherson Oblast (Russia) and Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2022 October 8. There is a consensus against an article with such a title. Cambial — foliar❧ 19:23, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The adequacy of "Kherson Oblast (Russia)" as a title hardly came up in that discussion, so I don't think it's right of you to say there's necessarily consensus against the titling itself. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 21:15, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The only subject of the discussion is "should the article "Kherson Oblast (Russia)" exist?" The overwhelming consensus is that it should not. Cambial — foliar❧ 21:41, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the arguments in that discussion assumed that multiple content fork articles would remain in existence. All I'm proposing is renaming a single article. The conclusion reached in the larger discussion doesn't really apply here. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 22:14, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The reason for deletion is in the close. An article with the title "Kherson Oblast (Russia)" would by necessity have as its topic "Kherson Oblast (Russia)", and such a topic is a WP:POVFORK. Take it to deletion review (again), if you wish. Cambial — foliar❧ 22:31, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What is Kherson Oblast (Russia) a POV fork of? SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 22:48, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
DPR and LPR cannot be used to justify the move of this page. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 10:53, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Why is that? SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 11:12, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That should be answered by those initiating the move. But the naming is governed by WP:NAMING. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 11:19, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it is unreasonable to ask you to elaborate on your assertions. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 11:27, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redundant set of infoboxes

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The infobox I am including in this reply was restored by Manyareasexpert, saying that it must be discussed before it is removed from the article. My removal was based on the fact that it is largely redundant with a second infobox which appears directly below it.

Occupation of Kherson
Part of Russo-Ukrainian War
Operational scopeMilitary occupation
Planned byMinistry of Defence (Russia)
Commanded byVladimir Saldo (United Russia)[1]
ObjectiveMaintain strategic military control over the oblast
DateBegan 24 February 2022 (2022-02-24)
Executed byRussian Ground Forces

Let us review the parameters:

  • Map: This map appears in both infoboxes
  • Commanded by: Vladimir Saldo: Saldo is in no sense the commander of a military operation. He is the head of an administrative entity. He is listed as such in the other infobox.
  • Objective: Maintain strategic military control over the oblast: I do not know where Cambial Yellowing derived this from, but it does not correspond with the body of the article and should probably be removed.
  • Date: Began 24 February 2022: This date is also listed in the other infobox.
  • Operational scope: military occupation: The article title leaves little question about this.
  • Executed by: Russian Ground Forces: This is also relatively self-evident, but I would argue the Russian Airborne Forces played a crucial role early on.
  • Planned by: Ministry of Defense (Russia): If there are sources which describe the "planning of the occupation" by Russia's ministry of defense, I'd really love to see them.

References

  1. ^ "Биография Владимира Сальдо". ТАСС. Retrieved 17 June 2023.

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 14:59, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the points do make sense but the second infobox is completely out of context as it does not represents the occupation. It is the second infobox which should be removed. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:08, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the second infobox would then be moved to Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast#Government. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 15:13, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Could be considered, although the primary issue is the section is in bad shape relying on primary sources, including claiming settlements not controlled by Russia as belonging to Russia. Should be rewritten using secondary sources. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:16, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Manyareasexpert was correct to restore it. The article subject is a military operation - obviously. The article subject is not a settlement, so the inappropriate settlement template ought to be removed, absent any serious reason to retain it, as is currently the case. Cambial — foliar❧ 15:09, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]


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