Talk:List of best-selling music artists

Elvis sold more than Michael Jackson.

There is an error, check your sources. Elvis is the highest selling solo artist of all time. Michael Jackson has been wrongly placed above him. 82.42.70.100 (talk) 13:49, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

That was true until 2009. After 2009 Jackson got the boost and gradually overtaken Elvis by late 2010s. If Jackson didn't die in 2009, he never have overtaken Elvis. Only because of his death in 2009, he did overtake him.84.54.72.60 (talk) 06:49, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

This is untrue, when Elvis died he had only been certified for over 25 Million albums in the United States during his career which was reported by NBC in 1977 [1]. By the 1990s they retroactively audited sales for his entire discography in the US with more audits bringing him up to his current total of 145 Million albums [2]. Elvis also released 200+ albums and still never sold 100M albums outside the US. It was Michael Jackson who was the first one to reach that milestone in 2006. If Elvis had sold more they would have given him this award first. [3]

Regarding the title of "Best selling solo artist of all time", here's some actual third party media sources that don't directly rip from the record labels.

1980 - Ebony Magazine: Bing Crosby (360M Records), The Beatles (210M Records) / Elvis Presley (170M Records) [4]

1984 - Guinness World Records: Elvis Presley (Sold more than 200 million records worldwide) [5]

1997 - Billboard Magazine: Michael Jackson (100M international sales between 1979-1997) [6]

2000 - World Music Awards: Michael Jackson ("The Best selling Single artist of all time")

2002 - ABC American Bandstand: Michael Jackson ("The Best selling artist in the history of recorded music") [7]

2003 - Philippine Inquirer: Michael Jackson ("The Best Selling Artist of all time") [8]

2004 - Pitchfork: Michael Jackson ("The most successful solo artist of all time") [9]

2014 - Rhino: Michael Jackson ("The Biggest Selling Artist in History")

In the 1980s the Presley estate was already inflating Elvis's sales however, citing figures of 1 billion worldwide even though at the time the media had only reported up to 250 million in global sales for the Beatles meaning he couldn't have sold more than them since Guinness World Records claimed they reached "1B sales" first. [10][11][12]

Ebony Magazine's report which cites 200M for the Beatles by 1979 is backed by all of the independent figures from journalists at the time stating 250M by the mid 80s since it could be rounded. Since we know this was likely true, it also means that Presley sold 170M by 1977 and 30M by 1984 bringing his sales up to 200M, independent sources states 100M total sold after his death between 1977-1997 [13]. That brings Presley's sales up to 270M by 1997, since Jackson sold more than 100M albums and singles outside the US from just 6 albums by 1997, it would mean that including his DVDs / Music videos he had sold 300M records at the turn of the century hence why he was cited as the best selling singer of all time

I can't find many sources at all that cite Elvis Presley as the best seller without directly parroting the Elvis Presley estate word for word, which is no different than them claiming 1 billion viewers for Aloha in Hawaii when in reality it was only 150-200 million. Never17 (talk) 18:13, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

You cannot find the sources that cite that Presley is still the best selling solo artist in history. Wow really? My friend you have converted this article into a "LISTCRUFT" being defined as (lacking encyclopedic value). Moreover this best selling artist listing has become a "FANCRUFT" meaning a low quality (Michael Jackson) fan made material lacking intellectual substance. Your fanatical folklorism and zealotry for Michael Jackson has shrouded and practically destroyed the credibility of this once respectable article, which can never be used as a point of reference, by no one for that matter, ever again. Are you aware how many times this article has been nominated for deletion? it's been nominated for deletion 5 times. Most of all it's been nominated for deletion for the same issue; which is misrepresenting the factuality of narratives, by cherry picking the sources for your own biased agenda, which in summation lacks objectivity, impartiality and editorial fairness to the subject at hand. In closing, many contributors and avid readers of this article think, and perhaps rightfully believe, that you ought to recuse yourself from this Wikipedia Editorial Page. Your editorial honesty leaves a lot to be desired as a Wikipedia editorial contributor, and I state this with the utmost respect. Do consider this advice and take it to heart. You will be doing everyone who contributes to this best selling listing article a favor. And if my words are perhaps a little angry is because maybe I am. THIS IS ENOUGH!! I do not want this article to be nominated for deletion ever again. I happened to respected it!! I hope you feel the same. Victor0327 (talk) 16:26, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

"I understand your frustration, but please recognize that this article is not about personal allegiance—it's about facts, reliable sources, and consistency in standards. The constant push from Elvis fans to inflate his numbers to 1 billion or more, often with no independent verification outside of the Presley estate, is exactly why the page keeps getting flagged and challenged. The same rules that prevent us from claiming Thriller sold 100 million also apply to Elvis. For the record, I respect the figure Universal Music Group gave for Elvis (500 million records). It’s the most credible large number attributed to him because it came from a third-party audit, not directly from his estate. That's how these things should be handled—balanced and sourced properly. On the other hand, sources for The Beatles being the best-selling act of all time have existed for decades across various reputable media outlets, without invoking unrealistic totals. That’s not ‘fancruft’—it’s historically accepted reporting. The distinction between ‘best-selling solo artist’ and ‘best-selling act’ exists because The Beatles’ dominance was widely accepted, and there wasn’t a serious challenge to that for decades. There’s no intent here to distort or cherry-pick. If anything, I’m calling for consistency. The only reason this has become so contentious is due to some users pushing unverifiable claims. If everyone stuck to third-party sources and applied equal standards to all artists—whether Jackson, Presley, The Beatles, or anyone else—there would be no issue at all. Never17 (talk) 17:37, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

I am not writing about that: I am just telling you straight out. Your lack of objectivity exceeds your lack of fairness and impartiality. I hope this article does not get nominated for deletion again. These are just a words of advice; Be honest, fair and impartial. It's not a matter of who sold the most. It's a matter of being objective and fair to the subject. I grew up with Michael Jackson. What is my opinion of him? I think he was an excellent entertainer. However I don't want to obscure the issue; A Wikipedia editor must be fair and objective when writing about the subject. In closing that's all that matters.... Victor0327 (talk) 17:53, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

The article should definitely not be on the chopping block again. The idea that only certified numbers count is just beyond absurd. You can guesstimate reasonably for uncertified albums and singles by comparing them to a combination of certified records and the music charts, so Elvis has to be beyond Michael Jackson comfortably. FWIW, I am also a fan of Jacko and was before I ever heard Elvis sing, so it's not a personal thing against him, either. Grandmajohnnym (talk) 22:11, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

If you were a "fan" of the singer you wouldn't be referring too him by a known racist slur used by the media to demean minorities. Certified numbers are the only reliable metric for legacy acts. Never17 (talk) 22:18, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

When did it become racist?!! It wasn't back in the '80s in his heyday. I can't think of a single reason why it would be offensive. As for certification, it's important, but it's not the whole story. That's why they're taken with a grain of salt. Grandmajohnnym (talk) 19:33, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Okay, you're talking about "Wacko Jacko"? Yeah, that I recall MJ not liking and I can't blame him. Grandmajohnnym (talk) 19:40, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah that's racist. There's no difference between 500 million and 500 million, furthermore i cannot find media sources claiming 500M for Presley before Universal Music's comment which means they independently audited him as a third party organization which contradicts claims made by his label and PR fluff. So we have to respect that as the most reliable source that exists for him, i'm also completely against MJ or Elvis being raised at all until they get certified sales significantly higher than the Beatles. If they reach close to 500M certified units worldwide then i would consider moving them up, or at the very least begin discussions. Currently the Beatles are the best selling artist of all time, we must respect that and unless Jackson and Elvis get certified sales significantly higher than their current figures (200M for MJ needed to reach 500M) (265M for Elvis to reach 500M) there should be no further movement at all since it would be a conflict with the sales of the Beatles.

They have the same claimed sales, with certified sales being the deciding factor. There is no problem, there is no issue and that is the end of it. Never17 (talk) 20:10, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Well, eventually those uncertified sales of MJ's will be certified, right? If not, then that would mean there's a problem with the claimed sales, since artists from his generation and younger don't have the legitimate excuse earlier other artists have like Elvis, Sinatra, Ellington, Armstrong, Crosby, etc.

As for Jacko being racist, it could only be deemed such if you know the history behind it (since there's nothing in the nickname by itself that would make it so). Since I know it now, I won't use it, but you should think about this conversation the next time you attack someone else for being a racist. Grandmajohnnym (talk) 12:54, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Elvis Presley’s very limited international reach means he’s unaffected by untracked sales outside his core markets—the US and UK—where rigorous audits (RIAA, BPI) capture nearly all his sales, totaling ~200M-210M of his 235M certified worldwide (2025). For example, the Official Charts Company reports just 4.5M digital single sales in the UK, his second-largest market between 2000-2017 [14], highlighting his modest global impact. Beyond these regions, his sales are negligible as no foreign market lists an Elvis album among best-sellers not even in the UK, whether by certified or claimed sales by local media reports / chart companies. Claims of “lost sales” due to his era hold no weight.

In contrast, artists like Michael Jackson, Celine Dion, ABBA and Madonna, with massive international popularity and active touring in markets like Italy, Japan, and Brazil, face significant unaccounted sales due to inconsistent tracking in those regions during their peak. For instance, Celine Dion’s D’eux alone sold over 4M in France, uncertified since the 1990s and some of her albums sold 15-20 million globally in the first 12 months alone, while artists like Jackson and ABBA frequently have multiple albums topping the lists of best selling albums across various foreign markets some from pure sales alone not counting equivalent units or digital purchases.

Rather than worrying about other artists, you should really be worried about Elvis when other 20th century acts like Mariah Carey and Madonna and even Queen seem poised to potentially surpass him in certified sales due to their continued longevity and international popularity Never17 (talk) 18:12, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Eventually, they're all going to be surpassed down the road just because there will be that many more people in the world to purchase music from new artists (since the world population is always increasing). Fortunately, the dominant artists like Crosby, Elvis, Sinatra, the Beatles, Michael Jackson, and a few others will still have their chart success to point out how they stood out among their generations. Having 500 million sales when you weren't even the tenth most popular singer/group from your class isn't going to impress many. ;-) Grandmajohnnym (talk) 22:42, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Completely agree, for those three (Beatles / MJ / Elvis) it's not so much just albums but Singles that will determine who is the best selling act of all time. The media will generally provide estimates for how much albums sold worldwide and have varying claims that can be changed based on how much the albums are certified for, but singles sales data is very scarce and since they combine physical singles with digital single sales now the certifications are a true indicator of how much those songs sold. For artists that debuted in the 1950s-1970s like them it would be a true indicator of their sales and longevity to have songs that sells a substantial amount. Besides those three, Madonna and ABBA are the only artists who even have claimed sales up to 400M anyway so there's not much to worry about. Never17 (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

References

Madonna

Per the source I posted on the Madonna talk page, this article reliably says that Madonna has sold over 400 million records worldwide. The article makes no mention of any claim from Madonna nor does it mention the Guinness World Records certification. The claim is supported by a highly reliable source, The Hollywood Reporter. Thank you.

[Madonna] is one of the best-selling artists of all time, having sold over 400 million records worldwide. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 10:33, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Sources began citing 400 million sales after Madonna claimed this figure on The Jimmy Fallon Show. There are multiple independent reliable sources for the 1 billion claimed sales for Beatles, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley and 400M for ABBA but editors have reached consensus that these figures are inflated. According to IFPI as of 2006 Madonna has sold 200M albums and 100M singles. It's unlikely she has sold another 100M records since then. Her certified sales are less than 200M, which also doesn't satisfy her 400 million claimed sales. TheWikiholic (talk) 12:26, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

What are the general rules then? What is the certain percentage of certified sales that must be attained to make the claimed sales valid? 143kittypurry (talk) 13:52, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Certification percentages depend on an artist's era. Older artists tend to have fewer certifications due to limited certification systems in many countries. Newer artists, however, often accumulate more certifications, largely driven by streaming, which is free to an extent. These streaming-based certifications don't necessarily reflect actual sales, and the process has become more accessible since many countries now offer automatic certifications, reducing the need for record labels to pay certification fees." TheWikiholic (talk) 15:42, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Give us the exact percentage for each of those era you are talking about. 143kittypurry (talk) 15:50, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, it will be WP:OR to say certain percentage for a specific artist. Editors consider various factors when determining an artist's claimed sales, rather than relying solely on a source. For instance, comparing Rihanna and Katy Perry's certified sales reveals differences in their sales streams - Rihanna's certifications come more from song downloads, while Katy Perry's are largely from streaming. Additionally, artists like Taylor Swift and Adele have significant album sales. Editors weigh these factors to update claimed sales figures, rather than simply accepting promotional claims from record labels. TheWikiholic (talk) 16:27, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Do you speak on behalf of these editors? Because the last time you were the only one who got to decide whether Katy should be promoted in the list. Also, how did you know that her certifications are largely from streaming? LOL. She debuted during the digital downloads era and streaming era started around 2014. 143kittypurry (talk) 16:31, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Just browsing through her albums page right now (Madonna Albums)

Debut Album - 10,000,000 (2010)

Like a Virgin - 21,000,000 (2008)

True Blue - 25,000,000 (2012)

Like a Prayer - 15,000,000 (2019)

Erotica - 6,000,000 (2017)

Bedtime Stories - 8,000,000 (2017)

Ray of Light - 16,000,000 (1998)

Music - 11,000,000 (2000)

American Life - 5,000,000 (2008)

Confessions - 10,000,000 (2014)

Hard Candy - 4,000,000 (2011)

Rest of the studio albums: 3,500,000+

Who's that Girl - 6,000,000 (2018)

I'm Breathless - 7,000,000 (2020)

Evita - 7,000,000 (1998)

Compiliations: 56-57 Million (

This all adds up to 210 million albums, a lot of them had their sales updated recently whereas some are still using the same claims from decades ago so there's room for this to be higher if they get re-certified.

As far as Singles go, she's been claimed to have sold anywhere from 75-100 million by the early 2010s. That adds up to 300-320 million. So i think 350 million / 300 million claimed is 100% fair, but i want to see her at least pass Queen and Elton John in certified sales first since they also have 300M claimed to their name

Now granted if she gets a huge influx of certifications like the Beatles, Queen and MJ where her total goes up by like 100 million units, then she'd be at 290-300 million. I would absolutely consider 400M or discussions if we get to that point. Never17 (talk) 19:01, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

According to Guinness World Records: "Although precise sales figures are difficult to obtain and are often disputed, it is widely acknowledged that only The Beatles, Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson have conclusively sold more records worldwide than Madonna, with most estimates settling on a figure between 300 and 400 million".this article --Ken006 (talk) 15:52, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Micheal Jackson fans control this article

Same complaint. Why is this page being controlled by Michael Jackson fans? Like, plenty of them have some ownership issues and think that they literally own this article. They decide on the rules and these rules aren't even established in the article itself and make decisions based on their own bias. They would say "based on consensus", but the consensus was just a bunch of them agreeing on their collective delusion. 143kittypurry (talk) 16:28, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

The problem is updating Katy Perry's inflated sales figures to 213 million units based on her total available certifications, which are majority streaming-generated. Notably, her best-selling album Teenage Dream is certified 10 million units in the US, yet its actual sales are just above 3.1 million units. TheWikiholic (talk) 17:16, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

If that helps you sleep at night. 143kittypurry (talk) 17:49, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Celine Dion has literally sold over 200 million albums alone, most of which have their sales reported decades ago and she's still only at 200M because her label hasn't updated anything. According to Universal Music, Katy Perry sold over 70 million albums worldwide, so i think she's fine where she's at right now, most news outlets also cited between 100-143 million record sales. [15]

This isn't a situation of where she was already being claimed to have sold over 200 million years ago and just now reached 200M+ certified like with Mariah Carey. Whom editors had no problem raising by the way and will raise higher when she gets certified more. Never17 (talk) 19:13, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Dear god you are so annoying, I'm not here very often but this is probably the tenth post I see mentioning Michael Jackson and always for bullshit claims about Elvis or whatever, you guys need to stop with your obsession Mg250 (talk) 09:48, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Celine Dion

The lack of accuracy and reliable sources/information on this list is unbearable, Celine Dion is the second best selling female artist of all-time with 250 million records, we know who outsold who when it comes to her and her peers, Celine is the only female artist in history to have sold more than 50 million pure physical album sales in Europe, her tours alone show who is the most successful, putting her at 200 million records is innacurate and false, when not counting streams/certified sales by stream/digital which are not real sales and are counted for other artists here, she still remains the best-selling, even third-party sources have confirmed she has sold 250 million records and this list should be based alone on pure sales not on streaming certifications, a lot of artists shouldnt be here because of that and most of them are sales based off only of USA leaving the rest of the world behind and claiming it as "general records sold in total" which is misleading and false, making this list even worse than it is, this list is a mess and we can't afford to be this irresponsible, we can't be doing this to the people who enter and read wikipedia, this list needs an urgent check-out and update from its administrators, cause they don't let anyone else outside themselves to edit this list, at least they should do it themselves and consider what other editors have to say and be more open to the cases, they should not impugn their bias by force on this list and leave it like this, as the final version cause they say so, there's a lot to be fixed here and a lot to update cause its urgent, if you ask me, not trying to be unnecesarily harsh for no reason, just stating the truth, and the truth sometimes is harsh and we don't like it, hope it's clear that i'm not starting any edit warring by saying this words, below here are some reliable sources that confirm Celine's 250M claim

https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/the-illustrious-career-of-celine-dion-7776996/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/entertainment/article/celine-dion-songs/

https://www.google.com/english.elpais.com/culture/2024-06-24/when-celine-dion-hated-herself-for-not-being-able-to-sing-valium-and-pain-in-the-singers-most-personal-documentary.html%3foutputType=amp

https://deadline.com/2021/09/celine-dion-documentary-announcement-sony-music-entertainment-director-irene-taylor-1234845741/

https://www.t-mobilearena.com/news/detail/legendary-music-superstar-celine-dion-to-receive-icon-award-at-the-2016-billboard-music-awards

https://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-vegas-celine-dion-20180924-story.html

https://www.thewrap.com/i-am-celine-dion-documentary-review-prime-stiff-person/ Lightlylove (talk) 22:44, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Celine Dion albums discography

- 1980s albums (Over 1 million)

- Rest of studio albums (151 Million)

- Live albums (5+ Million)

- Greatest Hits (29-30 Million)

Then there's a lot unreported for their sales so up to 200 million albums, but some of these claims date back decades so they could be higher.

Some singles

Pour que tu m'aimes encore - 4.4 Million

My Heart will go on - 18 Million

Think Twice - 1.5+ Million

The Power of Love - 2.4-2.5 Million

Because you Loved Me - 3.3+ Million

It's all coming back to me Now - 3.5+ Million

All By Myself - 1.1 Million

Tell Him - 950,000+

The Reason - 850,000

Immortality - 1.2 Million

That's just 37 million right there, so at least 40-50 million singles potentially more

This brings you up to 250 million records sold, but digital in the US and France among other countries lags behind so it could be higher.

So she does have a legitimate case for 250M records easily, but i want to see her certified higher first. She's only got 148.7M right now so 200M claimed is appropriate Never17 (talk) 23:46, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

If you want to see a throughly detailed video of her records sales, watch this video https://youtube/FjRJNugTtZ8?si=7LLC5lozUG8lo9Tn it's really good and a very informative analysis. Lightlylove (talk) 01:41, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm completely on board with it, but simply want to see higher certified sales for her first. 148.7M is too low to use higher claimed honestly when Mariah Carey for example has around 220-230M+ certified and only 220M claimed Never17 (talk) 02:15, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

Celine Dion's team have a lot of time that they don't update her certifications, i doubt Mariah Carey has all of that certified since she has sold up to 237M records, but one thing for sure i know is that Celine has up to maybe 225M certified but hasn't update it yet, Celine's team don't bother about that since along ago, she has a lot to update. Lightlylove (talk) 04:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

According to Billboard, My Heart will Go on sold up to 5 million units from streams alone [16] Never17 (talk) 04:23, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

Katy Perry certified sales

Just to raise this concern. One issue with this list is that it's hard to determine which newly certified albums, singles, and updated certifications are included in the summary for each country. I find it difficult to track and identify what is already included and what is not, as there is no clear indication of each album or single unless the editor specifies it in the edit summary. However, many entries in "View History" make it hard to keep track of each edit.

To address this, I manually recalculated Katy Perry's certified sales for each country and created an Excel file summarizing all her certified albums and singles. Please see the attached link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dgggt_sn4LObnqcxdaubMqzVSI6WuxdW-yo774qgB8k/edit?usp=sharing

Should you have any concerns or questions, please let me know. Thank you. 143kittypurry (talk) 11:41, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

The list was mostly updated by a single user till 2022 and he kept those updates in a mediafire account. Once he stopped editing he deleted that account as well making the whole list bit hard to update. Anyway it's a good start you doing this initiative. Btw can you add those certifications by creating subpages like this and in the country-wise format?" TheWikiholic (talk) 12:42, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

Sure! I can use my own talk page for that. Thank you. :) 143kittypurry (talk) 13:01, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

I started working on your suggestion, and I just finished with her RIAA certifications. Kindly check my user page. Thanks! 143kittypurry (talk) 14:15, 19 April 2025 (UTC)