Talk:Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 May 2025

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In the final paragraph of the main body section should be rephrased. Though it is likely intended to convey that citing this hypothesis specifically is antisemitic AND sometimes used in anti-zionist rhetoric, the way everything is worded here ("this includes...") makes it appear to imply that anti-zionism itself is antisemitic. This constitutes biased language on a controversial subject, and therefore the wording should be adjusted to express an unambiguously neutral stance. 2603:8080:B700:55A:407:C36:1279:A43E (talk) 11:10, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize, I now see a box telling me that "please change x" requests will be rejected and my edit request should have followed a "change x to y" format. I did not see this until after submitting, and don't know how to or if I can edit my request.

So I am now commenting to suggest an actual fix, would be to change:

"The Khazar hypothesis has occasionally been cited in antisemitic theories propounded by adherents of various movements which believe that modern Jews are not true descendants of the Israelites. This includes citations by some anti-Zionists, who may bring up the Khazar hypothesis in attempt to discredit the claim by modern Jews to the land of Israel"

to

"The Khazar hypothesis is sometimes cited in antisemitic arguments promoted by adherents of various movements and ideologies to express the belief that modern Jews are not true descendants of the Israelites. For example, some anti-Zionists may cite the Khazar hypothesis so as to discredit the claim by modern Jews to the land of Israel, and the theory has historically been advanced by anticommunists, Klansmen, and some evangelical Christians."

Something of that nature may be more balanced. I sometimes get a little wordy, which is why my original request lacked an actual solution, so even what I put forth here may need to be edited a bit before publishing.

An alternate proposal would be to simply delete the final sentence of the main body. I think this would work either way, whether using my edit or the original version.

Sorry if proposing a fix this way is either disallowed or frowned upon. Again I didn't know how to fix my original request to be more compliant with the guidelines. 2603:8080:B700:55A:407:C36:1279:A43E (talk) 12:01, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 2603:8080:B700:55A:407:C36:1279:A43E! Some editors are more strict than others. I always try to understand what is requested. I hope you don't mind that I have reformatted your request, so it is much easier to see the difference.

Now let me see. Original version says "various movements", you say specifically "anticommunists, Klansmen, and some evangelical Christians." I can find anti-communists and Klansmen in the body of the text. With "some evangelical Christians" I guess you mean The Christian Identity movement? Now if you want to be specific, why not say "anticommunists, Klansmen, and the Christian Identity movement?

On second thought, these groups are all mentioned in United Kingdom and United States - you mention none of the groups in the other regions such as Soviet Union and Russia or Germany. So, I don't agree with mentioning these three groups specifically in the lead.

Another change you propose is from "in attempt to discredit" to "so as to discredit". Now "so as to discredit" strongly implies a deliberate effort to undermine or delegitimize, emphasizing intention, whereas "in attempt to discredit" is softer and more tentative, suggesting an effort without necessarily implying a clear, calculated purpose. I will keep the weaker claim.

So the new text would be: "The Khazar hypothesis is sometimes cited in antisemitic arguments promoted by adherents of various movements and ideologies to express the belief that modern Jews are not true descendants of the Israelites. For example, some anti-Zionists may cite the Khazar hypothesis in an attempt to discredit the claim by modern Jews to the land of Israel."

I find the new text more clear than the older one, so I'll change it.

Of course, I you don't agree with me, please feel free to discuss this further! Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 08:18, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism of the Elhaik studies

Why does Elhaik have a section dedicated to criticism that is longer than the main Elhaik section? I propose to either include a section criticism Behar or remove a dedicated section criticizing Elhaik. As of now the article does not seem neutral and steers a reader toward a viewpoint. Trust0070 (talk) 03:26, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You’re in a mission. 2600:1002:B134:5B4E:3DA2:C15A:C617:A40 (talk) 00:16, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would love to know why you care about this so much. 2600:1002:B134:5B4E:3DA2:C15A:C617:A40 (talk) 00:17, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are you going to be constructive or are just fishing for information? 213.63.136.122 (talk) 01:32, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(((Vested interests))). 46.196.72.212 (talk) 16:05, 21 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oh it's supposed to be neutral on 19th century pseudo science. 2601:19E:8980:81A0:9683:C4FF:FE4B:A0A4 (talk) 20:28, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

NO, I propose it should be balanced. There is a whole section dedicated to attacking one hypothesis, but no other section gets the same treatment.

This creates a general overall bias. Trust0070 (talk) 17:40, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Unattributed paragraphs lacks neutrality / sources.

This entire section is completely unattributed and appears to be a personal opinion as opposed to a view with significant and neutral consensus:

The Khazar hypothesis is sometimes cited in antisemitic arguments promoted by adherents of various movements and ideologies to express the belief that modern Jews are not true descendants of the Israelites. For example, some anti-Zionists may cite the Khazar hypothesis in an attempt to discredit the claim by modern Jews to the land of Israel.

I think it needs to be removed.

More generally, I think the entire articles seems to presuppose a finding - rather than being a neutral lens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:64BE:601:C13:8067:EF91:CF6 (talk) 09:23, 27 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The statements are sourced in the body of the article (e.g. in the "Anti-Semitism" section). Not everything in the lede (introduction) needs to be sourced in the lede, as long as it is sourced in relevant sections of the article. Skllagyook (talk) 08:24, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The article needs to be reworked. It is making assumptions without being sourced and set up in a such a way to discredit viewpoints while promoting others. Trust0070 (talk) 17:42, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]