Talk:Insurgency in Kosovo (1995–1998)

Merger proposal

The "insurgency" to which this article refers was so low-intensity that it can hardly be called an insurgency at all. Thirty or forty people killed at most over a three-year period. More people are killed by gang violence in Chicago in a month. The real insurgency started in February 1998, which is when the Kosovo War began. Thus, I find that having an entire article dedicated to a few nationalist murders of police officers and grenade attacks is WP:UNDUE. There is no reason this shouldn't be redirected to Kosovo War#Background. A lot of the content (some of which is quite useful) can be copy-pasted to Kosovo War, as well as Kosovo Liberation Army#Background. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 17:19, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

The content that concerns the background to the war is roughly half of the Kosovo War article. Very long since the subject of the article is the war itself. However, most of it is unsourced content that can be replaced with sourced content from this article. I am not against the proposal. Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:54, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Given that the content is as irrelevant as you explained it is, it would not belong in the lede on that page -- making this a deletion proposal, not a merger proposal. Additionally I think emphasizing this page's content on the background of Kosovo War strays deep into POV (i.e. what about the civil disobedience, what about all of Yugoslav rule, what about the other Yugoslav wars ...?). I can't support this in its current form at least.--Calthinus (talk) 19:22, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

I didn't say the content was irrelevant. I said that it doesn't merit an article of its own. The 1996-98 insurgency certainly does merit inclusion in the lead, as is currently the case. Also, you're assuming that civil disobedience, Yugoslav rule and the other Yugoslav wars wouldn't be included. IMO, not mentioning how Albania's intelligence services helped the KLA would be POV. So would not mentioning the civil war in neighbouring Albania and how hundreds of thousands of automatic rifles ended up "mysteriously" falling into the hands of the Kosovars. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 19:28, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

^Yes this too plus the mobilization of the Albanian diaspora which started before 1998. But you have to acknowledge there is a trade off. If we delete this page, any info that doesn't make into the background of Kosovo War is gone from Wikipedia. At the same time the more, we include there, the more weight we give it relative to other factors as well. If you don't want to be forced into a trade off between keeping notable info and maintaining balance... then you keep this page.--Calthinus (talk) 22:48, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Calthinus. If content is moved from this article to Kosovo War, that should be content that is balanced enough. The rest can be deleted. This was my assumption when I placed my previous comment. Ktrimi991 (talk) 23:56, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

We should move it to Kosovo War, keep the best bits and sources and delete the rest. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 10:26, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Only reliably sourced content would be moved to Kosovo War and Kosovo Liberation Army. But since most of the content does appear to be reliably sourced, that shouldn't be a problem. On second thought, maybe we should create an article called Background of the Kosovo War and link it under the Main article heading for the background sections of Kosovo War and Kosovo Liberation Army. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 15:38, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

So are we going to merge this to "Background" in Kosovo War or split it up into different parts? Because I understand a few parts would be removed from this article and just want to know, as I might merge when it's the go to. Of course unless someone already did. USAManager (talk) 13:01, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to see some consensus first before proceeding. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 01:11, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - The topic is enough notable for standalone article. Any eventual issue can be resolved without deletion or merging.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:37, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

What do you oppose? There is no proposal being currently discussed. The above discussion ended more than 6 months ago. Ktrimi991 (talk) 13:11, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

The merge tag was still present on this article, that is why I !voted. I boldly removed the tag because there is no consensus for merge. Those who want discussion to continue, feel free to reinstate it.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

You did good. The proposal failed to achieve consensus. Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:35, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Done donily doneoy. Alfred the Lesser (talk) 13:39, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I read a trusted source and these commanders were killed during insurgency in kosovo 1995-1996. Fantasticer (talk) 17:53, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Insurgency in Kosovo (1995–98)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Insurgency in Kosovo (1995–98)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "auto5":

• From Roman Empire: Potter (1999), p. 303.
• From Serbia and Montenegro: Ozerdem, Alpaslan (27 July 2003). "From a 'terrorist' group to a 'civil defence' corps: The 'transformation' of the Kosovo Liberation Army". International Peacekeeping. 10 (3): 79–101. doi:10.1080/13533310308559337 – via pureportal.coventry.ac.uk.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 15:28, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Who really won?

Hello! I created this so i can explain who won this Incurgency and stop possible edit war. So who won this Incurgency? My answer is that Yugoslavia and KLA both won this. How? Here is explanation: How did Yugoslavia won? Yugoslavia arrested around 100 KLA members and killed one of the notable KLA commanders and crushing Incurgency and starting Kosovo war. How did KLA won? Kla won Tactically since they won more ambushes and attacks than Yugoslavia (There are only 2 yugoslav victories recorded on Wikipedia those are Pestovë ambush and Battle of Qafë Prush). So even tho kla did had military success they didn't archive their goal. If you think i made mistake feel absolutely free to tell me. Unknown General17 (talk) 20:31, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Neither pages on the book mention that. Page 44 does mention the death of Pajaziti but not the arresting of 100 members and the rest of the page focuses on describing the Jashari monument in Prekaz. Page 55 talks focuses more on ethnic cleansing. The insurgency was never "crushed" and this isnt mentioned anywhere. Also if the insurgency was crushed there would be no Kosovo War. "Crushing the insurgency" would mean completely destroying the KLA, but per the sources and article, KLA attacks only intensified, doesnt seem like the insurgency was crushed. Peja mapping (talk) 21:30, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

In 1998 in the insurgency in kosovo there were 1470 attacks on Serbian forces. Doesnt seem like the KLA's insurgency was crushed.

Furthermore the KLA gained nearly control of most of Drenica and treated it as a "liberated area" after the insurgency. Peja mapping (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Yea those attacks were small and didn't do anything big during the war and lot of Kla Members were mostly arrested and probably several killed and claim that Yugoslavia lost control over drenica is false, Drenica was just the place were attacks happened the most and key place for KLA Unknown General17 (talk) 21:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

I used wrong word, crushed sounds very brutal the Incurgency was Supresed not crushed (since yes KLA would also be crushed) Unknown General17 (talk) 21:42, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes 55 doesn't mention arrest of 100 KLA members 56 do Unknown General17 (talk) 21:45, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Although that page does mention that it doesnt instantly make the whole Insurgency a Yugoslav victory. The insurgency was never suppressed and no source mentions this. Also there were still 200 KLA members remaining and the number of fightes kept growing. There were only around 4 killed on the KLA side. The Pestovë ambush (according to Tim Judah and sources on the KLA attacks) was the first time that the KLA suffered casualties in the entire insurgency. Another casualtie was suffered in Qafë Prush and that was about it, while Yugoslav casualties were 151 killed. Even if the attacks were minor they still happened and shows that the KLA was very much around and their attacks kept intensifying. Also you need to provide a result that the insurgency was suppressed. Peja mapping (talk) 22:16, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Never said it was fully Yugoslav victory and 121 were killed on Yugoslav side and 4 killed on KLA side was mostly unlikely since Incurgency lasted for 2 years and alot of attacks happened Unknown General17 (talk) 22:35, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Then i what aspect was it a Yugoslav victory ? According to Tim Judah and OSCE monitors the first casualties on the KLA side were in 1997 (Pestove ambush) and beside the Battle of Qafë Prush there arent any other recorded casualties. Peja mapping (talk) 10:39, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

So 4 albanian fighters were killed? Unknown General17 (talk) 15:03, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Probably, but once again without sources directly mentioning anything it remains unclear. Also i recommend providing a source that deliberately states that the insurgency was suppressed. Peja mapping (talk) 17:24, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

I can see a lot of WP:OR and personal opinions here. See also: WP:STABLE & WP:NOTFORUM. — Sadko (words are wind) 11:47, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

I apologize for the revert since I didn't realize there was a discussion here, but I see a few issues here. A strategic Yugoslav victory implies that the ability for the KLA to wage war was massively hindered. I could see this being the case initially (by 1997 when those arrests occurred) but to argue that the entire conflict resulted in a strategic Yugoslav victory is WP:OR in my view. Additionally, the rebellion was quite clearly not suppressed if it resulted in an even larger, more brutal conflict. The tactical victory makes sense in my view, at least towards the end since the source we have refers to the KLA as successfully undertaking their military goals, which is definitionally a tactical victory. Thanks, Yung Doohickey (talk) 17:52, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

I do agree with you as the claim that the insurgency was suppresed is unsourced and i cant find anything that mentions it. Peja mapping (talk) 20:24, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

i personally think that the best solution would be to add a "See aftermath" result as this is also recommended by Template:Infobox military conflict Peja mapping (talk) 15:11, 3 March 2025 (UTC)