Talk:Hikaru Utada

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Change her pronouns back to they/them

Changing it for "consistency" is bullshit, consistency with what? Finnfrog99 (talk) 10:25, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed; their own homepage in fact uses exclusively they/them pronouns for them, so I'd say that's the correct way to do it. 2003:E5:B704:BA7E:4115:E43B:D957:2424 (talk) 13:43, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, the last discussion about this was in Talk:Hikaru_Utada/Archive 6. We still have the same website vs. instagram issue we had back then. Has there been any recent English-language interviews, and if so, what pronouns do they use? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:17, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand what the insta/website issue is? The previous conversation seems to be confused over the use of she/they on their insta page, but it's extremely common in femme nonbinary folks to use she/they to mean "it's alright if you refer to me as she, but I'd really prefer that you use they".

The fact they use they/them exclusively on their own webpage, there doesn't seem to be any ambiguity here. They have said in multiple interviews that they are made uncomfortable by traditional aspects of gender, and don't wish to associate with them, and that's core to their idea of their own gender identity.

If their own webpage uses they/them, and their insta page indicates a preference for they/them, and every single interview expresses that they wish to distance themself from a feminine gender identity, what is the tension between these sources? Nuriko~enwiki (talk) 16:43, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Editors in the last discussion viewed the "she/they" at insta as an indication that Utada prefers "she" over "they", based on the order. I view this as essentially a reasonable guess, and I view your counterargument as a reasonable guess, but I think (as I said in the last discussion) that the use of they/them at both the website and in English-language interviews is more persuasive. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:52, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reporters aren't going to ask Utada which pronouns they prefer, and they wouldn't generally care much since Japanese doesn't have a concept of pronouns the way English does. They also likely won't be referring to themselves in third person. These requirements are impossible to meet, and biased with cis and binary centered thinking. The evidence is clear enough that their website states very clearly which pronouns are preferred. No other evidence should be necessary.

And the order of pronouns don't indicate preference. I use she/her/hers pronouns -- that doesn't mean I wish for you to only use "she" when referring to me as the direct object or when indicating my possession of something. Pronoun construction doesn't follow logical rules this way -- they're shorthand for the best ways to refer to someone in a way that is consistent with their sense of internal self.

Trans people (including non-binary folks) use these ways of communicating to cis people (as well as others) the ways in which we can reduce the dysphoria of interacting in everyday life. Constructing their pronouns as "she/they" are more about language flow and reducing the burden on cis people, and not a statement of preference in order. Their own language on the website using exclusively they/them pronouns should Nuriko~enwiki (talk) 18:40, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

should* be abundantly evident as to the correct pronouns to use in the english article. Nuriko~enwiki (talk) 18:40, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Seconding that "she/they" is not necessarily the order of preference. I think Utada's own website using they/them pronouns is indicative enough to warrant using they/them for the article. Cactoideae (talk) 20:50, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The artist has stated that gendered titles make them uncomfortable (preferring "mx") as well as all the above as well. Jelioi (talk) 04:16, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can you link where they say that? Not trying to cast doubt, it would just be helpful. Mrfoogles (talk) 15:12, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Insta, some secondary coverage, and we mention it with another source in our article. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:05, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support use of they/them per reasoning above. 웃O O 07:23, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also support per the fact that they use exclusively they/them on their personal page Mrfoogles (talk) 15:12, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am also advocating for the use of they/them pronouns in reference to the singer Utada Hikaru based on what can be seen on their personal websites.

They have also previously stated that "It makes me uncomfortable to be identified so markedly by my marital status or sex"

Must the conforming to cis-heteronormative norms in our society preside over the artist's own identity and comfort? I believe not. 60.241.230.127 (talk) 01:21, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support based on their website and interviews. Toadwinter <3 (talk) 21:31, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nkon21, making sure you're aware of this discussion. Looks like we have a new consensus. Regulusblack27, it'd be better to switch pronouns all in one go. It's something I can work on soon, if no one else is interested. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:29, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I made an attempt this morning, hopefully it is usable unless I missed an additional template somewhere. Jelioi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I picked up a few more, mostly in captions, and I adjusted the article's editnotice (only visible for desktop editors). Eventually, we should adjust all the subarticles (albums, songs, discographies, etc.). Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:34, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]