Talk:Boys' love

Further reading

Removed from the article, but possibly useful to expand the references:

Talk:Boys' love/Reference suggestions

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 03:38, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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Artwork of a seme and uke

• ... that yaoi is a portmanteau of a phrase that translates to "no climax, no point, no meaning," referencing how early works in the genre focused on sex to the exclusion of plot and character development? Source: "Pornography or Therapy? Japanese Girls Creating the Yaoi Phenomenon"
  • ALT1:... that yaoi, a literary genre focused on male-male romance, originated in the 1970s as a subgenre of girls' comics? Source: "Loving the love of boys: Motives for consuming yaoi media"
  • ALT2:... that the two participants in a yaoi relationship (pictured) are referred to as seme ("top") and uke ("bottom"), terms derived from martial arts that were later appropriated as Japanese LGBT slang? Source: "Underage Sex and Romance in Japanese Homoerotic Manga and Anime"
  • ALT3:... that any man can be the subject of a yaoi manga, including characters from literature, video games, and even real people? Source: "Moe: Exploring Virtual Potential in Post-Millennial Japan"
  • ALT4:... that in China, fans of BL – a male-male romance genre also known as yaoi – use the hashtag "socialist brotherhood" to avoid detection from state censors when discussing the genre? Source: SCMP

• Reviewed: Studio 2054
• Comment: Plenty of material to mine for hooks on this one, as one can imagine.

Improved to Good Article status by Morgan695 (talk). Self-nominated at 22:35, 5 January 2021 (UTC).

• passed appropriately as a GA. The third hook has the wrong source, I assume you meant to use "Underage Sex and Romance in Japanese Homoerotic Manga and Anime" instead of "Boy's Love and Yaoi Revisited", which is used to cite something later in the paragraph. All the other hooks are fine. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 20:38, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

• @Elliot321: Yes, that was an error on my part. I've corrected the source, if you wish to approve ALT2. Morgan695 (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

• approved. Honestly, I prefer that one — mainly because the image is cute. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 05:23, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

On the separation of BL (Anime vs Live Action) (Japanese vs Rest of Asia)

I feel BL has grown immensely in the past decade and feel it has begun to deeply separate from its origins in Japanese Manga/Anime. While I think it's important to acknowledge these origins it's clear BL is quickly becoming less anime and less Japanese and I feel a separate article on BL especially focusing on Live Action BL would be useful since this article barely covers it. I would love to hear other's thoughts or even look into a voting poll.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, if there is enough reliable sources to justify a division, then I'd say to go for it. I think a voting poll would be a good idea. @User:Morgan695, considering your contribution above on this talk page, perhaps you would be interested in contributing here.Historyday01 (talk) 22:14, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

I think there's likely enough material to create Boys' love on televison (or something similarly named), though it would be a good idea to start an article in the draftspace first. Naming that article might get thorny, especially if this master article is still listed as "Yaoi"; perhaps now is the time to bite the bullet with a formal move request for this article, since there was no major objection to the informal discussion from several months ago? Morgan695 (talk) 22:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Im so sorry i had no idea. You'd did this first. I wish to formally acknowledge that. But yeah, I think a separate article covering live action would do wonders I suggest the titles "Boy's Love Drama" or "Live Action Boy's Love"-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 00:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

For the record though I actually think Yaoi or Shonen Ai should still exist and renaming it to Boy's Love might hamper our ability to create a more intercontinental (Asia) and live action article on BL. Rainbowofpeace (talk) 01:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I think it's appropriate to separate the two into two articles. BL is used in South Korea, while yaoi is used mostly for just Japanese media, along with Shonen-ai. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 21:19, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

BL is really used all over Asia especially China, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Thailand and the Philippines. However Yaoi or Shonen-Ai usually only refers to anime and manga. I really want a new article that focuses mostly (if not exclusively) on live action and while there will definitely be mention of Japanese live action BL. I think its clear that other countries will be just as if not more prominent including South Korea like you mentioned but also Thailand and Taiwan. I would definitely look forward to your what I'm sure will be incredibly insightful contributions in the new articles section on South Korea.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 15:04, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if live-action BL deserves a page, but I'm for spinning off BL content from this page into its own, and adding info from other countries to it. I will say that live-action BL should definitely be a component of the page, but just not its own. You could go with "Boy's Love in (country)" to expand on each country. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:11, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh wow, I didn't even realize this discussion existed until now. I actually went on and created List of boys' love dramas article. Feedback or help to improve the article would be appreciated. — ‎‎‎hhypeboyh 💬 • ✏️ 18:50, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

My question is only with the organization. Why does each section start at the most recent date and then the least recent date?Historyday01 (talk) 03:34, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Cultural appropriation 101.55.244.246 (talk) 03:11, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Essentially, it would be this:

• Boy's love
  • Boy's love in (country)

ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:13, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I would support splitting the "Live action television and film" section into "Boys' love in [X]" articles that fork from this article, but I don't see the rationale for splitting this article into "Boys' love" and "Yaoi", and would likely oppose such a move. Morgan695 (talk) 16:02, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

@Morgan695: It would mean that the "Boy's love" article can focus on BL from other countries, while the "Yaoi" would only be about Japanese BL, along with Shonen-ai. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 16:06, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Why would an article titled "Boys' love" exclude Japan, the country that the the term originates from and which actively uses the term to designate a genre of media? And why would an article titled "Yaoi" focus exclusively on media from Japan, where "yaoi" as a term is largely depreciated? This seems like a wholly arbitrary distinction. Morgan695 (talk) 16:25, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

It wouldn't exclude it, it would be a subsection that has a link to the "Yaoi" page, along with "Shonen-ai". It would have general info about BL across the world, but also have links to other pages, like the aforementioned pages. The BL page would have an etymology section, describing how it originated. It would be like this:

• Etymology
• In other countries
  • BL in (county)
  • BL in Japan

(use "Main" temp. for Yaoi and Shonen-ai)

ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 16:31, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I still think it can get pretty confusing unless you actually have a draft so you can show what you mean. Even BL published abroad is now being published in Japan under the same label (some even going as far as to change the characters' names and backgrounds so that they're Japanese). lullabying (talk) 09:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. A draft of the page would be nice to see. Historyday01 (talk) 15:04, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Post-move clean-up

I've updated the article opening, but I'm not sure how the wording should be handled throughout article. It would be appropriate to retain references to yaoi, especially in the coverage of the genre's earlier history, but in which instances should the term be changed? Should the article prefer boys' love spelled out or the abbreviation BL? From what I've seen, the abbreviation would seem more natural and in-line with source usage. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:34, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

From a cursory glance, the final paragraph of "Etymology and terminology" that explains how the genre is named in Japan vs in the west is probably the section most in need of updating. I think the article should use yaoi when that era of the genre's history is being covered, but should default to "BL" for other uses. Morgan695 (talk) 17:30, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Photograph in “send and uke” section

Hello,

I removed the photograph in the “Seme and Uke” subsection as it seemed inappropriate for Wikipedia, can anyone advise on this if possible? Uiscebearla (talk) 08:44, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

@User:Uiscebearla I've reverted your edit. Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED, which means that we don't remove images just because they seem "inappropriate". Thanks, Nil🥝 (talk) 10:03, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Nil thanks for your reply. I should have clarified that my concerns were beyond it being merely “inappropriate” but about the age of the characters portrayed in the image.

Thanks Uiscebearla (talk) 13:35, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Appreciate the clarification :)

There's nothing to suggest their age is a concern, and the file has been used without issue since July 2011, including being promoted as a Featured picture on Commons[1]. – Nil🥝 (talk) 00:59, 11 July 2025 (UTC)