Talk:Age and health concerns about Donald Trump

Biased

This is one of the most biased pages I have ever seen. I am not biased towards Trump or Biden. In fact, I have equal opinions of both of them, but take a look at the “age and health concerns of Joe Biden” page compared to this one. This page is clearly biased, but I’m afraid editing it will cause it to become protected.

98.109.122.80 (talk) 16:27, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

This page is already protected, to the extent that as it is under arbitration remedies. If the Biden article is underdeveloped compared to this one, the solution is to expand that article along similar lines of coverage in reliable sources. Everything on this page is sourced information. BD2412 T 16:42, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

When your sourced information is the mainstream media, it is extremely biased against Trump. Trump won the election winning both the popular vote and the electoral college. This fact completely negates the statement that a majority of people think his health is a concern.

This page sounds like an anti-Trump page designed to influence voters. Since he won the election, a revision is needed. 2600:8800:3B01:8A00:B08C:73F7:72BB:E4F6 (talk) 17:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Nothing about this page sounds like propaganda Turtletennisfogwheat (talk) 14:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It says at the top of the page that the article doesn't meet the Wiki style. 2A00:23CC:C000:F801:F810:E6CB:38ED:C966 (talk) 05:50, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Severe pro-Democrat bias

What a joke. I don't support either party but this is absolutely pathetic. The author don't even try to make it sound neutral. Alas, nothing is ever completely impartial. "Sourced information", that doesn't excuse the twisting of "the narrative" to the author's ideological viewpoint. Wikipedia is meant to be neutral! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.90.88 (talk) 19:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

This page almost exactly parallels the Age and health concerns about Joe Biden page, which was kept as it is following a lengthy deletion discussion. The existence of both pages demonstrates ideological balance. Of course, there is more substance to this page, but that is event-driven, as Biden for example has no family history of dementia to report, never had a doctor's office raided for records, and was never hospitalized for Covid. BD2412 T 22:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

It’s not even close to being parallel to the page of Joe Biden. Firstly, there are no trusted sources that can claim Donald Trump has dementia. Secondly, “narcissism” is neither an age nor health concern.

108.24.127.83 (talk) 23:25, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

The article doesn't say that Trump has dementia, it says that that concerns about this have been reported by at least some medical professionals (as cited in reliable sources), which they have. As for "narcissism", there is a specific condition, narcissistic personality disorder, which is indeed a DSM-listed mental health issue. Again, the article doesn't say that Trump has such a condition, but that reliable sources have reported that some experts in the field assert that he does. BD2412 T 12:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Regarding dementia and NPD it is speculation aka gossip and it needs to be cited as such. A trusted source is not some random Dr paid to come on TV to spew nonsense and foment hate. Pelosi also made a comment concerning Trump's mental health which is an absolute joke considering her role in the scam/sham Biden presidency. 2600:8800:3B01:8A00:B08C:73F7:72BB:E4F6 (talk) 18:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Can you suggest a specific change that you think should be made to specific text in the article? BD2412 T 18:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

There's a striking difference between this page and Joe Biden's. What i immediately noticed was Trump's page having an "Incidents" heading, mentioning a bunch of gaffes of his, some of them could barely be called as such, like confusing the name of a physician who tested him six years ago. The part about reports of Trump having a lisp, but it being explained as a techical error in the broadcast in the following sentence also questions whether or not we should call it an "incident" if it actually were a broadcast error. Meanwhile Biden's page has no such "Incidents" heading, despite the numerous viral clips on the internet consisting of sniffing hair, falling of stairs, a bycicle and a flat stage, not to mention the literal compilations of him misspeaking or saying complete nonsense. All of these gaffes that aren't mentioned on his page would be a strong ground to raise concerns for a serious mental decline, instead Biden's page has pretty vague comments of him being "confused" and "disoriented". I know i may be indicating bias towards Trump, but i am definitely not supporting him. I believe both Trump and Biden are too senile to be running a country and way past their mental and physical primes, but such differences in both pages seemed unbelievable to me, that i had to write this comment. I have no idea whether this is deliberate or not, but if it is, it's disgusting and unproffessional. Bananmizzz (talk) 22:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC) — Bananmizzz (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

@Bananmizzz: It seems that your concerns are more with the Age and health concerns about Joe Biden page, and should be addressed to that talk page. Note, however, that a large number of editors added content to that page, and any of them could have added the sort of content that you describe—as you can, now. In fact, I would encourage you to expand the Biden page according to your comments here. BD2412 T 02:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Add A Fact: "Trump claims crowd reaction at audience-free debate"

I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below

During an appearance on Fox's The Five on Wednesday, Donald Trump claimed that the crowd went crazy for him at last week's debate, even though there was no audience.

The fact comes from the following source:

https://hillreporter.com/watch-trump-claims-that-crowd-went-wild-at-audience-free-debate

Here is a wikitext snippet to use as a reference:

 {{Cite web |title=WATCH: Trump Claims That Crowd Went Wild at Audience Free Debate - HillReporter {{!}} |url=https://hillreporter.com/watch-trump-claims-that-crowd-went-wild-at-audience-free-debate |website=HillReporter |access-date=2024-10-01 |language=en |first= |last=Todd |quote=During an appearance on Fox's The Five on Wednesday, Donald Trump claimed that the crowd went crazy for him at last week's debate, even though there was no audience.}} 

This post was generated using the Add A Fact browser extension.

BD2412 T 12:36, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Claim that Trump was shot

The section about the 2024 assassination attempt currently claims that "Trump was shot and wounded in his upper right ear by Thomas Matthew Crooks, a 20-year-old man from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania". The sourcing does not support this claim. The first sources states that the USSS had "not yet publicly confirmed that Mr. Trump was shot in the ear", whereas the wording makes it sound like 1) Trump was shot i.e. hit by a bullet and 2) that the ear wound is the result of the bullet, and not, say, shrapnel. I suggest we reword this to "Trump was shot at by Thomas Matthew Crooks, a 20-year-old man from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania" and leave the ear part to the second paragraph. Cortador (talk) 22:18, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Cortador: Reword it, then. BD2412 T 23:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Trump and Biden same age 4 years apart.

Note that Trump is the same age Biden was in 2020 2600:6C46:6800:21F8:C090:8BA7:F018:C4FF (talk) 05:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Close, but not exactly. At this point in 2020, Biden was still 77, while Trump is now 78. BD2412 T 13:11, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Is an infobox still relevant for this page?

I think it would be better off if it's replaced with a photo regarding his health concerns. The infobox on Biden's page was already deleted, so well I think the same should be done for Trump's page. G0dzillaboy02 (talk) 14:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Fully agree and  Done. The infobox was serving no purpose — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:54, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2024

You incorrectly stated in Donald Trump's COVID diagnosis section that the public did not know about his diagnosis until 2021. You should correctly state that we did know in 2020, we later learned he had it earlier than before. Please try to be unbiased.

       ZanManDew (talk) 07:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for pointing this out. Ca ^{talk to me!} 07:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Extreme bias

Why this article is 50% larger than the same page for Biden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_and_health_concerns_about_Joe_Biden is just odd.

Yes, you can source up the wazoo, but anyone impartial knows that there have been and continues to be faaaaaar more concern over biden's age than trumps. Creditsam (talk) 21:37, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

For example... Why is there a list of "Incidents"?

A few gaffes over many years doesn't demonstrate cognitive decline.

Biden's page doesn't have an "Incidents" list. Why not? There's plenty to go around there....

Can an admin post a bias notice atop this page? Or delete it entirely? It's a joke Creditsam (talk) 21:50, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

@Creditsam: It seems that your concerns are about the Age and health concerns about Joe Biden page rather than this one, and should be addressed to that talk page. Note, however, that a large number of editors added content to that page, and any of them could have added the sort of content that you describe—as you can, now. In fact, I would encourage you to expand the Biden page according to your comments here. BD2412 T 22:31, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

no. My concerns are about The clear bias on this page.

I am using Joe biden's page as proof of the bias here.

The bias on this page won't go away by expanding Joe biden's page.

That's just silly. Creditsam (talk) 10:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

Your statement was "Biden's page doesn't have an "Incidents" list. Why not?"; I explained why not, to the extent that it merely has not been added by editors. This page only reflects what has been reported in the sources, and sources have specifically tied the "incidents" listed to concerns about the subject's age and mental acuity. To the extent that such incidents have been reported as raising such concerns with respect to Joe Biden — which I am sure they have — I would absolutely agree that those should be included there. We do not shy away from including facts reported by sources merely because the facts are deemed concerning with respect to the subject. BD2412 T 20:10, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

You missed my point.

I said "For example... Why is there a list of "Incidents"?" which is out place because like I said "A few gaffes over many years doesn't demonstrate cognitive decline."

You seemed to have glossed over that and just plucked the later quote which demonstrates the bias by contrasting it to Joe Biden's page.

This is a stupid game and everyone knows it.

"We do not shy away..." PUH-LEASE Creditsam (talk) 20:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

And I'm not the only one who has noted it.

See above...

I again reiterate that an admin should add a "bias" label to the header of this page Creditsam (talk) 20:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

The reference to "incidents" exists at all because sources have not only reported the items listed, but have specifically connected them to concerns about the subject's age and health. All sorts of interested parties would be glad to see Wikipedia remove negative content about subjects in which they have an interest. Automobile and airplane manufacturers would like if we removed reports of their safety failures; food companies would like if we did not report their instances of contamination and sickness caused by their products; and politicians would like if we did not report their health issues. If you think that there is content missing from the article that would provide balance as against this information, you are welcome to suggest its inclusion. However, this does not provide any basis for whitewashing well-sourced content that is clearly relevant to the subject of the article, and for which this relevance is specifically and directly drawn by the sources themselves. BD2412 T 22:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, the page on Biden's age and health has been expanded. It is now close to being the same length as this page. Too-Rye-Ay (talk) 21:25, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

I think that the balance is now fairly even, given that Biden was only a one-term president, compared to Trump being a two-term president. BD2412 T 22:38, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Sources from Public image article

The following lines from Public image of Donald Trump#Temperament have extensive sourcing. Some of these sources may also be useful in this article.

Since running for president, Trump's temperament and mental fitness has been a topic of public discussion. Trump has responded by saying that he has a "great temperament" and is a "very stable genius".

Kolya Butternut (talk) 15:08, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

I went ahead and added a sentence to Age and health concerns about Donald Trump#Mental health.[1] Kolya Butternut (talk) 18:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Biden, 2024 Democratic prez nominee?

Nitpicking. Biden was the presumptive presidential nominee, only. He was 'never' the 2024 Democratic presidential nominee, as he withdrew from the race 'before' the delegates met & voted at the Democratic National Convention. GoodDay (talk) 17:30, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Article is Biased

If you're going to is graphs from the media, use from somewhere like C-SPAN, NewsWeek or something. The Washington Post is politically left leaning. 2600:8804:83A4:6F00:66E0:951C:7278:3971 (talk) 09:00, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

The Washintong Post only provided funding; the actual polling was done by Ipsos. Ca ^{talk to me!} 10:05, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

There's an argument to be made that the article is biased in favor of Donald Trump.

At this point, there's no mention here of at least three well-documented stories about his health:

1. In November 2019, Trump made an unscheduled half-day visit to Walter Reed hospital, for which his staff gave the obviously bogus explanation that he had some free time and decided to use it to take part of his annual physical. Nearly two years later, a former White House aide published a book in which she wrote that the real reason for this hospital visit was that Trump underwent a colonoscopy, without anesthesia so that Mike Pence wouldn't temporarily become the acting president (even though this has been normal for presidents since the 25th Amendment was enacted: Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and Joe Biden all designated their vice presidents as acting president while they had colon procedures). She added that the reason this was kept secret was that Trump was embarrassed about the procedure. (Here's how biased the mainstream media is in favor of Trump: as far as I can tell, no reporter has ever asked him about the colonoscopy. That's a complete dereliction of journalistic responsibility because they're afraid of losing access to him.)

source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/28/politics/stephanie-grisham-donald-trump-melania-trump-book/index.html

2. In June 2020, Trump needed a general to hold his hand as he walked down a ramp after speaking at a commencement ceremony. Reporting on that incident also noted that Trump "appeared to have trouble raising a glass of water to his mouth" during his speech.

source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/us/politics/trump-ramp-water-glass-health.html

3. A large bruise was visible on the back of Donald Trump's right hand two weeks ago during his meeting with French president Emmanuel Macron. (Trump had also been three hours late to that meeting, with no explanation given.) Bruises had also been visible on Trump's hands at least twice in 2024. The White House claimed the most recent bruising was the result of Trump shaking too many hands.

source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/white-house-says-large-bruise-trumps-hand-shaking-hands-day-every-day-rcna193652

Would anyone object to these items being added to this article? NME Frigate (talk) 21:33, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@NME Frigate: Do the sources discuss these specifically in the context of concerns about Donald Trump's age and/or health? An old person having a bruise, even if reported, is not automatically within the context of this article unless the reporting reflects the concerns. BD2412 T 23:35, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

That's a fair question. The NBC article to which I linked is not terribly explicit on that point, coming closest in the last paragraph: "In a December interview with NBC News' 'Meet the Press,' Trump said he would release his full medical report. However, he has yet to do so. While Joe Biden was the oldest president in office, Trump was the oldest to be sworn into office."

But yes, other outlets were more clear. Here's the first sentence of an article in The Independent:

"Questions have been raised over President Donald Trump's wellbeing after what looked like a bruise was spotted on the back of his right hand."

source: https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hands-bruises-health-macron-handshake-b2704817.html

That article also notes that the bruise on Donald Trump's right hand in late February resembles the bruise on the right hand of Queen Elizabeth II when she met with Liz Truss on September 6, 2022, which was two days before the queen's death. But that point is made by citing social media posts and thus can't be put in this article.

(What I haven't seen (yet) is an article that explicitly states what I'm sure many people are wondering: are Donald Trump and the White House lying about the reason for the bruises? One picture from last year showed bruises on both hands.) NME Frigate (talk) 03:03, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

@NME Frigate: are you really getting involved in these strange conspiracy speculations? Donald Trump will complete his term, don't worry. JacktheBrown (talk) 13:40, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that Donald Trump is likely to live past 2028. His father lived to be 93, his mother lived to be 88, his oldest sister Maryanne lived to 88, and his older sister Elizabeth is still living, aged 82 or 83. That said, his older brother Fred died at the age of 42 and his younger brother Robert died at the age of 71.

None of the three stories I mentioned are "strange conspiracy speculations." They are all well documented in the mainstream media. If I were being conspiratorial, I would ask about how in some public appearances, he repeatedly interrupts his speeches by sniffing. Or I would ask about his stance and its weird forward lean. NME Frigate (talk) 03:10, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

The bruises issue seems speculative, still. They could just as well be from sparring. Maybe at night he goes out and fights crime in a rubber suit. BD2412 T 19:02, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I have added text about the Air Force Academy ramp incident. Too-Rye-Ay (talk) 21:12, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Zelensky, "cant believe I said that"

would it be material for this article that he first called Zelensky i diktator, then says "he cannot believe he said that" source https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgee7rl24ro 89.8.160.135 (talk) 11:40, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Proposed split

An editor has added a tag to this article indicating that they think it is too long. Although I am not particularly concerned about this, given that there are much longer articles in Wikipedia that have not been split according to such a rationale (e.g., Donald Trump, which is about four times this size), I am certainly open to entertaining proposals for how content from this article might be split out into subarticles if that is deemed necessary by the community. We could, for example, maintain an article at this title, and also move some of the content to specific articles on, e.g., Physical health concerns about Donald Trump, and Mental health concerns about Donald Trump, or have a separate article specifically on Incidents that have raised concerns about the age and health of Donald Trump. BD2412 T 18:54, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

I agree with you; I don't think this article needs to be split. Such proposal would require redundant restatements of background details for each article, as well as accumulation of fluff.

Some of the cruft in this article definitely could be removed, such as excising unimportant quotes from newspaper op-eds and replacements with academic sources whenever possible. Ca ^{talk to me!} 03:23, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

Was there a precedent in Wikipedia's history that a sitting U.S. President's article deemed as 'too long, need to split'? Bush, Obama and Biden's pages seemed reasonable in size compared to Trump's. It's likely a recency bias though.213.230.87.29 (talk) 18:51, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

Re the IP: those articles already have been split. See, e.g., Early life and career of Barack Obama, Illinois Senate career of Barack Obama, US Senate career of Barack Obama. BD2412 T 20:37, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

If there is no further input on this matter, I am inclined to remove the "too long" tag from this article. BD2412 T 02:14, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

@BD2412: the Public opinion section could be split into a sub-article and summarised in a few lines in the initial article; in particular the Incidents sub-section (some """incidents""" aren't real incidents, but common mistakes that anyone could make; they're certainly not noteworthy). JacktheBrown (talk) 23:40, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Noteworthiness for Wikipedia purposes is primarily determined by coverage in sources. I could see a case for requiring sources that specifically relate incidences to age and health concerns. BD2412 T 23:58, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

@BD2412: I could see a case for requiring sources that specifically relate incidences to age and health concerns. Good idea. JacktheBrown (talk) 00:00, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't think the article is too long or that it needs to be split. Also, I just made a series of edits that reduced its size somewhat. Too-Rye-Ay (talk) 04:56, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

I have removed the tag. Too-Rye-Ay (talk) 21:08, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

2nd Term Presidency

Based on historical data, on January 20, 2025 Donald Trump became 45th President, 2nd term. Not 47th President. 2600:8805:C03:800:AD85:9116:BB6A:9132 (talk) 02:45, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

The precedent set by Grover Cleveland, the only other president to serve non-consecutive terms, is that the president be given a new presidential number. Aydoh8^[contribs] 02:47, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

This is really not the talk page for this discussion. Donald Trump says in the first line that he is, in fact, currently the 47th president. BD2412 T 02:59, 24 March 2025 (UTC)