Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New South Wales

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Requested move 8 March 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a narrow 2:1 majority in favour of moving, and the one objection raised was answered and challenged several weeks ago with no further comment. So overall there is consensus for the move. — Amakuru (talk) 06:17, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

– These three prisons were all built during the 1800s and were originally termed as 'gaols'. In 1992, the New South Wales Department of Corrective Services renamed its operations at each of them as 'correctional centres' as part of a statewide change. In 2011–12, all three ceased operation as correctional centres. Subsequently, Grafton operated as the lower-order Grafton Intake and Transient Centre between 2012 and 2020, while Berrima was briefly temporarily reactivated as a correctional centre between 2016 and 2020. However, by 2021 all three had ceased prison operations of any kind and had their status as correctional centres revoked.[1][2][3] All or part of the land at each site has left government ownership, making future reactivation extremely unlikely.

Given that all three were known as 'gaols' for over 100 years each, and that ongoing interest in them is primarily in relation to their broader heritage rather than their period of operation termed as 'correctional centres' for 20 years between 1992 and 2012, common usage seems now generally to have reverted to referring to them by their original names. For example: Berrima: [4][5][6] Grafton: [7][8][9] Parramatta: [10][11][12]. This is also supported by the Google Ngram data, which shows usage of XYZ Gaol dipping off around 1992 while ticking back up around 2011–12 [13]. Meanwhile, no Ngrams at all are found for any XYZ Correctional Centre variant.

WP:TITLE says that a good Wikipedia article title should be recognizable, natural, precise, concise, and consistent. I believe that making this proposed move would not only reflect actual usage, but also enhance or maintain standing against these five criteria. In particular, using the WP:COMMONNAME of XYZ Gaol should improve recognizability, naturalness, and concision, while maintaining appropriate precision. The format XYZ Gaol is also consistent with similar articles for other former prisons in NSW, such as Darlinghurst Gaol, Hay Gaol, Maitland Gaol, and Wentworth Gaol. Tomiĉo (talk) 08:16, 8 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 23:08, 4 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 19:01, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support: they are all called gaols now.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:39, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Jail is common usage in Australia, not gaol. TarnishedPath^talk 07:34, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's a good point to raise, because for the most part you're right, jail has supplanted gaol as the preferred spelling in Australia (in both the verb sense, as in to jail, and the noun sense, as in go to jail). However, there is a key outlier for this which has steadily persisted for decades after the general switch to jail, and that is to use gaol when referring to historical prisons which were originally called gaols, and in particular, when referring to their names as a proper noun. The Macquarie Dictionary, Australia's reference dictionary, switched from gaol to jail as its preferred spelling in its 3rd edition in 1997, reflecting the change in Australian English at the time. However, it continues to note gaol as an alternate spelling, and in its usage notes says:

In general the spelling of this word has shifted in Australian English from gaol to jail. However, gaol remains fossilised in the names of jails, such as Parramatta Gaol, and in some government usage.

Here you see it specifically calls out gaol as the preferred spelling for historical prisons such as Parramatta Gaol. The Macquarie Dictionary isn't going out on a limb here; it is describing actual usage. As I noted in my original nomination, there are examples of this across NSW already reflected in Wikipedia. I should also note that this usage extends across the country, and can be seen in prominent interstate examples such as Old Melbourne Gaol in Victoria [14] and Boggo Road Gaol in Queensland [15].

Lastly, the Ngrams support the usage of gaol rather than jail for these three names, with all of them showing significantly greater (and rising rather than decreasing) usage for gaol when referring to the three (and no instances of "Berrima Jail" at all): Berrima [16], Parramatta [17], Grafton [18]. This strongly indicates that the XYZ Gaol construction is the WP:COMMONNAME when referring to these three former prison buildings. Tomiĉo (talk) 08:20, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nomination of Arrowfield Stud for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Arrowfield Stud is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arrowfield Stud until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

▶ I am Grorp ◀ 16:38, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]