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    As CricketArchive is behind a paywall, it's usage in external link violates WP:ELNO point 6, as it is a Sites that require payment or registration to view the relevant content. As such, I don't believe it should be used as an external link, in which case the template to do so- Template:Cricketarchive should probably be deleted to discourage people adding it as an external link. Thoughts? Joseph2302 (talk) 10:47, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Agree, it should be deleted. Vestrian24Bio 12:31, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The template has a valid use to cite information in-text. Hack (talk) 13:30, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    It shouldn't be being used for in-text citations as per the documentation: Template:Cricketarchive displays an external link to a CricketArchive web page. Links to cricket player profiles are created with the "id" parameter and links to other pages are created with the "ref" parameter. It is intended for use in the external links section of an article. This, like other similar sports templates should only be used for external links. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:51, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think its currently in use on just over 3,000 pages. I'd can't think of a use for it, although as some will be used as references it's tricky. Can we get a bot to do the rounds and delete any uses that are in an external links section first? I have no idea if that's possible Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:32, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Blue Square Thing: we could place a request at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks. Vestrian24Bio 03:05, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    If we decide this is a good idea, that wouldn't certainly be worth exploring Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:51, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think they need to be removed. In some instances, they it does provide more info than CricInfo. They should be discouraged, and it already has a padlock on it to indicate it's a subscription only link. Some users would have a subscription, and if you are quick with the stop loading button, anyone can still read the site. What would be more useful would be to ensure that it is never used as the source in the infobox. And WP:ELNO only says that "one should generally avoid providing external links" not that you can't. The-Pope (talk) 04:05, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    What really needs to happen, is they need to be moved out of external links and used as references instead. In many cases they probably already are. The problem is that 3,000 articles is a lot to work through and do that with. I would rather see them removed as external links – their paywall redirect is not the sort of thing an XL should do
    My gut feeling, from looking at the Infobox cricketer maintenance category, is that there aren't any uses of the template as a reference in the infobox, but I might be wrong about that Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:51, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I guess one place where its usage is common is Women Cricketers, because CA has the WFC and WLA status included, while CI still does not get its act together. So it would not be enough to delete the link, also the info might need to be deleted in the Infobox.--Maphry (talk) 05:14, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no problem in using CA as a reference, including for the infobox. I would encourage it. The problem is when it's used as an XL – people click those and expect to be able to get to something that summarises the article in some way I think Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:27, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The conversation has been had before but there has to be a better way of formatting the infobox references than inserting a bare url. Hack (talk) 07:54, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Agree that bare URL like this should not be used on inline references. Therefore, it seems there is no valid use for the template- as it isn't a valid external link, and the template should not be used for inline citations either. That being said, would be good to have a plan for cleaning up inline references using this template before I start a TFD. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:55, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Late to the party, but I agree with this comment and its replies. AP:ELNO indicates that such links should "generally be avoided" not that they musn't be used. I would always avoid Cricket Archive due to the paywall, and make sure that the infobox points to Cricinfo. However the point about women cricketers still remains true. Bs1jac (talk) 16:06, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    CricketArchive, to me, has a little bit more accuracy than ESPNcricinfo because all of the matches that are credited to a player have scorecards. For example, prior to my Wiki-Break, a player whose article I created was found to have an extra first-class match and four extra wickets on CI that CA does not have anywhere. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course, but I'd rather trust CA's figures for now because their figures are verifiable. We shouldn't exclude the site as an infobox source, though as an external link, it's a bit unnecessary, because if you're sourcing just the main player page, it's likely duplicating what you've already sourced in the infobox. -- JustJamie820 (talk) 23:05, 6 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    CA went behind paywall in 2015. For old stuff, there is an option to use pages from web.archive.org - like those leading from https://web.archive.org/web/20140922064116/http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/index.html - if it is essential, like for some first class scorecards and pages of ancient players. For scorecards from Test series pages, I occasionally replace CA with CI because it is very irritating to hit the paywall while looking up something. Tintin 07:28, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    South African teams and the SACB

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    Does anyone know the current thinking on whether the teams that played in the South African Cricket Board matches (primarily the Howa Bowl) are considered the same teams as those that played in the Currie Cup and other competitions? CricketArchive has them separate, but then it also has Natal and KwaZulu-Natal separate; CricInfo also has them separate in terms of records. The matches were later given FC status (Wisden 2006). People such as Richard Compton (cricketer) and Patrick Compton, for example, we have playing for Natal, but actually played for the SACB team.

    I'm currently working on a List of Natal cricketers, and we already have Eastern Province and Western Province lists which may either have people on who shouldn't be or will need people adding Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:39, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    I've tried to source some of the SACB cricketers with little luck. From what I can tell, the teams were separate entities representing the same provinces. Hack (talk) 19:09, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Ideas on how to "salvage" a draft on a 1990s/2000s Indian cricketer...

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    Months ago, I produced a draft on a former Rajasthan cricketer, Rahul Kanwat, that was rejected by two other editors; a third I had been in contact with a lot at the time would've done the same. (Then I got petulent and stopped editing.) Since I've come back, I wanted to revisit the article. How can I get this article to pass AfC? It's possible I know the answer myself, i.e. less reliance on CricketArchive, but I remember in February and March exhausting English sources for him (unless I wanted to go match-by-match on rediff.com, which didn't necessarily add a lot in most cases; though it did once or twice), and I don't know any Indian languages. Either way, since I find him notable because of his long tenure with one Ranji Trophy squad (130+ FC/LA matches is no joke), and since I'd hate for it to get deleted, I wanted to see if there was anyone willing to help me out with any aspect of this draft. -- JustJamie820 (talk) 04:06, 17 July 2025 (UTC) (P.S. Even if your help is one word in an article, it would be valuable.)[reply]

    Apart from the Rajasthan Royals stuff, everything else is pretty much based on CA only. Adding more independent sources might help. Vestrian24Bio 07:13, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    One set of sources I found is from a Bradford-area newspaper, the Telegraph & Argus, talking about him playing in one of the ECB Premier Leagues in 2008, but I don't know if it's notable that he played in such a league, especially since I can't find him in scorecards for his team on CA. (Plus, the vast majority of players in the (currently) 33 ECB Premier Leagues are probably not notable on their own.) I trust the newspaper to be reliable, but I don't know if the info is trivial or not.
    He also seems to be an advocate for IPL games to be broadcast in Rajasthani languages, but I can only source that to a cricket website's Instagram video...so that's a no for now. I'm not giving up on trying to find sources, though. -- JustJamie820 (talk) 23:47, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Once I figure out a way to do so, I will likely add the mention of him playing in Bradford...the way I wrote the article back in February makes it hard to include it now. It dawned on me that, since the Bradford Premier League has an article on WP, maybe it's not so bad to mention it. I just hope it's enough. Believe me, amid all that distractions in my life, I'm trying. I so wish that I could simply overwrite the redirect and publish it as it is, but I think I was recommended not to do so months ago. -- JustJamie820 (talk) 22:22, 19 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Featured List Nomination - List of cricketers with centuries in all international formats

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    Hi all, I have recently nominated List of cricketers with centuries in all international formats for Featured List status. However I noticed that it has not yet been added to the WikiProject Cricket (unlike a similar list, List of cricketers who have scored centuries in both innings of a Test match), could someone please add it with the appropriate importance rating?

    Also, feel free to add any feedback/comments to the Featured List Nomination - Wikipedia:Featured list candidates#List of cricketers with centuries in all international formats.

    Thanks


    DiamondIIIXX (talk) 05:21, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    @DiamondIIIXX: I didn't feel like saying this in the featured list page (drive-by comments from me have no merit there because I don't think I've ever commented on that page before), but you'll probably be told to remove the Times of India reference. WP:TIMESOFINDIA says it's not fully reliable. If I can't use it to get a draft into the mainspace, as I was told I couldn't do recently, you'll likely be unable to use it in a featured list. -- JustJamie820 (talk) 01:15, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks, I'm using the TOI article as social commentary for the milestone of scoring a century in all 3 formats, so I don't think it's a huge issue. Granted it's not the greatest source, but it took a lot of searching just to find that. Also, I used another source (Wisden) to go along with it. Cheers DiamondIIIXX (talk) 07:53, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Spike 'em I saw your edit removing the "refbomb" - The glut of sources was due to the lack of an updated list from a secondary source so each report of the feat being completed had to have a new reference - hope this makes sense.
    Also, per ChrisTheDude's comments here Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of cricketers with centuries in all international formats/archive1, would you be able to help fix the sorting for the table? I have no experience with those settings he mentions.
    Thanks DiamondIIIXX (talk) 11:06, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The Wisden link mentions all but one of the male players. We still need to use WP:RS and most of the refs there failed this. As Jamie mentions, for a Featured article you need to be sure of these. Spike 'em (talk) 11:13, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've removed the TOI article out of caution. Replaced with Hindustan Times article with similar content. DiamondIIIXX (talk) 11:01, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Not sure if it was quicker than doing manually, but a bit of Regular Expression search and replace should have done this. I've not checked everything, so there may still be some data there in the original format. Spike 'em (talk) 12:12, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the help. The tables are sorting nicely now. DiamondIIIXX (talk) 10:06, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Sourcing "plain text" scorecards on older Cricinfo pages...preferred over CA?

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    I wanted to add this to my draft salvaging post, but I figured I'd get more responses if I made it its own topic.
    In an effort to make a future, fourth attempt at submitting Rahul Kanwat's article into Wikipedia be successful, I decided to look if some of the CricketArchive pages I've sourced could be sourced to ESPNcricinfo. I've found a couple of scorecards there that are fully updated to the modern CI framework. Conversely, there are a lot of others that are on the old version of the website (old enough to still be advertising the first Stanford 20/20 competiton in the sidebar, yikes) that are basically just plain text, like Kanwat's first match here. They don't have hyperlinks, and often lack automatically-generated accomplishments, like CricketArchive scorecards do. For example, I can't source that Kanwat debuted in this match to CI not mentioning it on the scorecard page. While I find no issue with using old-style CI articles as sources, I don't know how I feel about using their old-style scorecards. I'd much rather use CA due to it having better features. However, I do know that reviewers who have found drafts of mine problematic want me not to source one site so much.
    This (finally) brings me to my question. Is it better to source a scorecard that is on a free site but is a basic, plain text page over a nicer, more verifiable scorecard page on a paywalled site? What are the viewpoints of WP:CRIC members on this? -- JustJamie820 (talk) 03:19, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    References are there to verify the information being presented in the WP article. If the CI scorecard does that then how pretty/functionally rich it is should not matter. Spike 'em (talk) 07:03, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Having said that, just adding different scorecards will not satisfy the SIGGOV point that the page reviewer mentions. Spike 'em (talk) 07:05, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand that scorecards alone don't make an article notable, but the main thing I wanted to do is diversify my scorecard sources so that I'd lessen my chances of getting told not to use CA so much. I'll still look for prose on Kanwat to see if there's more coverage on him. -- JustJamie820 (talk) 19:23, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Good article reassessment for Alan Kippax

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    Alan Kippax has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 19:06, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Description of Wisden Cricketers of the Year award for individual player

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    If we are noting one of the 5 annual Wisden Cricketers of the Year should we use a singular or plural Cricketer(s)

    i.e. Is Kane Williamson a Wisden Cricketer of the Year or Wisden Cricketers of the Year?

    Does it make any difference if listing the awards won by a player? To someone who does not know much about the award, then listing someone as Wisden Cricketer of the Year 2007 sounds more impressive than one of Wisden's Cricketers of the Year 2007. Spike 'em (talk) 14:01, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    for example: A player I've not editted Pat_Cummins#Achievements has a list of awards including both Wisden Cricketer of the Year 2020 and Wisden Leading Cricketer in the World 2023. Spike 'em (talk) 14:11, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Merging Anderson–Tendulkar Trophy, Pataudi Trophy and Anthony de Mello Trophy

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    (Linking for quicker access - Anderson–Tendulkar Trophy, Pataudi Trophy, Anthony de Mello Trophy)

    Should the three articles be merged? I feel as though there is a lot of duplication in the three articles and could be combined into one (Anderson–Tendulkar Trophy) with sections on the Pataudi and Anthony de Mello trophies. Also, I think rewriting the articles would be a good idea as some parts are unclear or confusing (in Anthony de Mello Trophy it states "When the matches are played in England, the trophy was called as Pataudi Trophy" which is a contradiction, or at the very least could be written better) DiamondIIIXX (talk) 20:08, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    • An argument against the merge is that Anthony de Mello trophy was used for all Test series in India in the 1970s and 1980s - or at least when a trophy needed to be presented - not just India-England matches. It just stopped being awarded at the turn of the 1990s and reappeared as an India-England trophy in 2012. If you scroll this twitter thread - https://x.com/tintin1107/status/1526890159052312576 - there are some presentations in non-England matches in the 1970s and 1980s.
    Another problem is that it did not start in 1951 and was probably first awarded at the end of England's tour of India in 1972-73. BCCI erroneously put the start date as 1951 in a press release in 2012 and it was widely reproduced in reputed sources like The Hindu. I guess it will be impossible to correct this in Wikipedia now. Tintin 04:27, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Two of the photos are from these sources - https://thehinduimages.com/details-page.php?id=173445109 Imran receiving the trophy in 1986-87 and https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/Kapil_Dev/EF_jESQMqTgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&&pg=PA132&printsec=frontcover Kapil being presented it v Sri Lanka. Tintin 04:35, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Looks like Howstat has gone off the BCCI press release - https://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Series/SeriesListCountry.asp?A=IND&B=ENG&Range=1951110220250802&s=3&t=Anthony%20de%20Mello%20Trophy&Home=T and Cricinfo only has 2020/21 and 2023/24 - https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/trophy/team-series-results/anthony-de-mello-trophy-868/test-matches-1
    I checked back to 1984-85 and it was awarded - https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/david-gower-of-england-holds-the-trophy-aloft-after-the-news-photo/158387175
    Not awarded in 1993 (charms cup) - https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/indias-captain-mohammad-azharuddin-lifts-the-series-trophy-news-photo/1243498018
    Not? in 2001 - https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/the-indian-team-celebrate-their-1-0-victory-over-england-news-photo/1069574
    Not in 2006 (TVS Cup) - https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/indian-cricket-captain-rahul-dravid-and-england-cricket-news-photo/57154620
    Was awarded in 2008 - https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/india-cricket-captain-mahendra-singh-dhoni-poses-with-news-photo/84113427
    What a mess DiamondIIIXX (talk) 10:29, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    From what you have found, looks like when BCCI started getting sponsors for Test series from the early 1990s, they simply ditched the De Mello trophy and started awarding new trophies named for the sponsor of that series ! Tintin 13:41, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Mid-summer cricket ground photo request!

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    Hello all. It's pretty much mid-summer in the UK, so just putting out there this list of FC/LA/T20 hosting grounds needing photos. I've linked to the English section of the list, but there are separate sections for Ireland/NI, Scotland, and Wales. Also, see the template below with some grounds which includes the national counties aka minor counties, which although not as important as the FC/LA/T20 hosting grounds, it too would be nice to have some photos of their home grounds as well. Happy snapping!

    AA (talk) 08:57, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Subtle image edits that have remained undetected for almost 20 years

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    While browsing the Test cricket article I have uncovered some strange and hilarious image edits by a user "Ricky212" on Commons, when they uploaded them on 17 December 2006.

    The image currently used in the infobox for the Test cricket article (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:England_vs_South_Africa.jpg) has been altered from its original state at flickr - https://www.flickr.com/photos/louisr/235969749/. The unused pitch on the leg side has been blurred/smudged, and there have been numerous alterations to the crowd, e.g. tens of red dots used to, I assume, "make the crowd look more full". These dots are easily visible on the white seats in the far left stand. Members of the crowd have been duplicated and pasted, this is visible on the first floor, above and to the left of the Oaklands logo. There are numerous other crowd edits and alterations. They are visible when flicking between the original and the one uploaded. The image was first added to the page on this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Test_cricket&oldid=102146369


    But the alterations don't stop there, no. The user also "created" the following image, used in The Gabba - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Australia_vs_South_Africa.jpg. It has been composited from two of the images uploaded by the flickr user. Image 1 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/talisen/125562745/in/album-72057594102425824/ (All rights reserved, non creative commons image), used as the field in the composite. Image 2 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/talisen/125562747/in/album-72057594102425824 (some rights reserved), used as the background/sky. The user has also blurred some image imperfections at point and cover. The image was first added to the page on this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Gabba&oldid=401612660


    It is probably worth looking through all their uploads to ensure there aren't any more. The ones I found are already used on many pages.


    I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw all the random edits on the Newlands image! Anyway, would the images require re-uploading or just adding new versions? The Gabba one is using non-free material so I assume will have to be removed completely, and possibly re-uploaded using the one with the suitable rights.

    I got a good laugh out of these, I hope you do too. DiamondIIIXX (talk) 11:24, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    These are terrible! Nearly as bad as AI :D AA (talk) 21:18, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    IP vandal

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    Just a heads up about an IP vandal that appears to be using a VPN (locations vary from the UK to Saudi), but all the IPs are making the same moronic edits. I suspect an old face might be behind these. I have thousands of cricket articles on my watchlist, so the vandalism gets spotted pretty quickly. Some recent examples:

    If we could all keep an eye out :) AA (talk) 21:17, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    There were a bunch of strange edits to infoboxes recently from one-edit IP accounts as well - caused error flags. Not sure if you have the right culprit, but it'll be someone we know I imagine Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:16, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    No doubt it is someone we know. Strikes me as the sort of petty edits my suspect used to do! AA (talk) 16:18, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Vogler

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    Was the demon South African legspin/googly bowler of 1907 Bert Vogler, as Cricinfo has it, or Ernie Vogler, as CricketArchive prefers? His forenames included both Albert and Ernest, so either is plausible. The article, btw, is pretty much a cut-and-paste of the Wisden obit, and gives no clues. Johnlp (talk) 11:08, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    I think in the past I've always seen him referred to as Bert, never as Ernie. OTOH, I've normally found CA to be more reliable than Cricinfo. I've looked in a few likely places in the cricket books I have, but they all refer to him by only his surname. I suppose it's possible that Bert was commonly used as his nickname in England and Ernie in South Africa or vice versa. JH (talk page) 15:36, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Doing a web search, this obituary (originally from Wisden?) looks like it might be the most authoritative source: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/albert-ernie-vogler-155706 It has the title Albert ('Ernie') Vogler. So I think I now cast my vote for Ernie. JH (talk page) 17:18, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Similarly, the recent biography of Herbie Collins by Max Bonnell is called 'Lucky: The life of HL "Bert" Collins'. Tintin 14:11, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Who (or what) do national cricket teams represent?

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    An edit (by @Servite et contribuere) and revert (by yours truly) on West Indies cricket team raises a couple of questions:

    • Does a national cricket team represent the country or just the cricket players of that place?
    • In the case of a trans-national teams (like the Windies) , do they really represent a region, even though large parts of it [do] not play cricket?

    Servite replaced a link to West Indies with a piped link to Cricket West Indies in the lead sentence (representing the West Indies), which I reverted (there is also already a link to CWI later in the sentence). All of the teams that represent a clearly identifiable country link to that country. Ireland says represents All-Ireland whereas England says represents England and Wales and links to Cricket in England and Cricket in Wales instead of the actual countries. West Indies also includes countries such as Cuba / Haiti, Domincan Republic who don't play much cricket, and aren't listed as members of the ICC (though Cuba used to be a member).

    I would still say that the Windies cricket team still represents the region, rather than just the administrative body, and there needs to be a link to the region at the begining of the article. Spike 'em (talk) 09:32, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    I think at some point we need to tell people what the West Indies is, geographically. It's a term that might not be well understood by people who may refer to the area as the Caribbean. The wording might need tweaking, but I'm not sure how we can do that in the lead without being too complex. It's probably as good as we're going to get it as it already is – the detail can go later in the article Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:14, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Spike 'em These questions are worth answering. First of all, I am going to say that it neither represents the country or the cricket players of that place, but the governing body instead. And I wouldn't be against updating it to say that the team represents Cricket West Indies and for other cricket nations. Now to another one, Cuba is more complicated because I don't think there is any way in the world the Cuban government would allow its players to play on a multi national cricket team. Now back to what the Windies represents, I think it is best to go with what the West Indies officially represents and not to include places that are only included on a regional basis by name. What's next? Saying that the Sydney Roosters represent all of Sydney in rugby league? These are sports (Rugby league at least in Australia) that set out very clear geographical representation guidelines. Servite et contribuere (talk) 10:44, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Can of worms stuff here. Over the history of international cricket, national teams have come into existence in diverse ways. In England, for example, for much of the 20th century, the England Test team was actually organised by the Marylebone Cricket Club. HiLo48 (talk) 11:04, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I did a quick straw poll of a couple of national teams in other sports : Football, Ice Hockey, Field Hockey, Water Polo, Basketball & Rugby League articles state the national team represents the country; Rugby Union and Netball state the team represents the national governing body. Most of the sports stating the country then mention the national governing body soon afterwards. I think cricket articles should continue to do link to the country and add explanations where necessary. Spike 'em (talk) 11:08, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    my standard opinion is that the football people usually do things the right way. There are a lot more of them and they've established style guides covering a whole tonne of stuff Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:56, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Football also doesn't really have this problem. SportingFlyer T·C 15:33, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Technically, football national teams represent FIFA member associations, which represent mostly but not exclusively sovereign nations. Hack (talk) 15:55, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree. As much as they are the de facto representatives of the country (and in some countries the government influences selection) they are in all practical aspects simply representing the organisation that selects and pays them. Which, for most international sports, is the recognized & affiliated association or board. The board or association represents the country or region, because I don't think anyone had held a national vote to select a team (yet). The-Pope (talk) 16:07, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think this is correct, i.e., the team technically represent the national association. But common understanding would be that it represents the country/territory/region. And could say that the national association itself represent the country in the sport, so by proxy the team indirectly represents the country. Bs1jac (talk) 16:11, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    If you are worried about the non-cricket playing countries, there is also the option of linking to British West Indies to exclude Cuba / Hispaniola. The lead of the cricket team does mention that the places represented are mostly ex-British colonies. Spike 'em (talk) 16:50, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Cricket grounds used for associate nation T20Is

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    Apologies if this has been discussed previously. I have worked regularly on associate internationals since universal T20I status began in 2018, including the list of grounds (and the women's equivalent). One small thing that irks me slightly is when grounds used for a few international games between 'smaller' associates, that will clearly never meet notability criteria for an article, have an article created and immediately redirected to the men's national team article. A few exmaples are Mladost Cricket Ground, Valburga Cricket Ground and Velden Cricket Ground.

    • Men's national teams pages have links to grounds that are self-redirects.
    • The grounds list has lots of links that a reader would expect to go to a ground, but do not.
    • Why redirect the men's team and not the women's team (especially if both have played at the ground)? If they are to be created, a redirect to the national assocation might be better

    I feel that such grounds should simply be left unlinked. Wanted to gauge opinion on whether a list could be prepared and the articles removed (or otherwise change to the national association). I know the articles are redirects so it may not be considered worth doing, but I feel if we don't think they are required, we need to do something as the editor who makes most of them has said that they do so for consistency with previous entries. Bs1jac (talk) 16:27, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Firstly, the discrepancy between how women's the men's cricket is treated is something that, given the last five years or so, could use addressing in general terms.
    Specifically, unless we want articles along the lines of List of international cricket grounds in Austria (which is a possibility), I imagine that a redirect to something like Cricket in Austria or Austrian Cricket Association are best – although the later seems only to deal with the men's team of course. Because, why not.
    Or there's List of Twenty20 International cricket grounds and List of women's Twenty20 International cricket grounds. I wonder whether they might be merged and, perhaps, simplified a little? Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:44, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Source for Charlie Llewellyn's cause of death

    [edit]

    Hello all. Just expanding Llewellyn's article. Apparently, he died as a result of a gas explosion in his Chertsey home on 7 June 1964. Can anyone find a source for this? BNA seems devoid of anything. Cheers, AA (talk) 18:32, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Nothing in 1964 in The Times or the Daily Telegraph. Johnlp (talk) 12:13, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Odd that neither carried an obituary for him. One in SA was only written 5 years after his death, but I can't access that! AA (talk) 21:00, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    His CricketArchive profile has a note to say that he died in a gas explosion. It also has his place of death as Englefield Green. Hack (talk) 07:04, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel like his article shouldn't be saying in Wikipedia's voice that he was definitely non-white/coloured. While it seems that this may have been the case, there is no definitive proof. Hack (talk) 16:44, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    To be addressed. There are two sections left to expand, one of which will discuss that! AA (talk) 17:33, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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