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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by David Fuchs via FACBot (talk) 15 April 2025 [1].

Christopher Lekapenos

[edit]
Nominator(s): Unlimitedlead (talk) 19:20, 14 February 2025 (UTC), User:Iazyges[reply]

Hey, y'all! Long time no see. I've been absent from FAC for a long time in pursuit of a real-world goal. Now that I've fulfilled my dream, I've decided to come back home. And what better way to get back into the grind than by... well you know me: an article about obscure royalty! Brought to you by myself and Iazyges, whom I had the pleasure of working on this article with at the Military history A-class review. Enjoy. Unlimitedlead (talk) 19:20, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Borsoka

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Glad to see your return.

  • I would split section "Life" into two sections (Perhaps "Early life/Before ascension" and "Co-emperor/Rule"), and avoid the title "Life" (since the whole article is dedicated to his life).
Good point. Where do you think this split should occur?
Done.
  • Link his father when he is first mentioned in the article and introduce him as a Byzantine military commander or something similar.
Done.
  • Introduce Romanos Argyros as a Byzantine aristocrat.
Done.
  • ...he had married... Name Christopher.
Done.
  • Romanos succeeded in having his daughter Helena Lekapene married to... I would rephrase: "Romanos had his daughter...", and also mention what was his position at that time to provide a context.
Done.
  • Did Romanos crown himself emperor? I assume he was crowned by the Patriarch.
Done.
  • Did Romanos crown his wife and son himself?
The wording of the texts state that Romanos crowned his wife and son. Whether he actually did the act himself is unclear.
  • In 928, his father-in-law Niketas unsuccessfully tried to incite Christopher to depose his father, but was banished. I would rephrase: 1. Niketas tries to incite him 2. He fails. 3. He is banished.
I think the current phrasing is understandable. I don't see how I could split it without becoming overly chunky.
  • Is the link to "more than the Egyptians" useful?
Removed.
  • Christopher was succeeded by his father and his two brothers, Stephen Lekapenos and Constantine Lekapenos, and Constantine VII They did not succeede him.
I've changed the wording. Hopefully that's better now.
  • Romanos died in June 948, Stephen on Easter 963, and Constantine sometime between 946 and 948, while trying to escape. Delete.
May I ask why? I think it provides good chronological grounding.
Done.
It's a reference to Christopher's brother Constantine Lekapenos. My understanding is that we aren't sure if the image is a depiction of Christopher of Constantine, but I don't have access to the same sources Iazyges does, so you'd have to ask my co-nom for more information regarding that.
@Borsoka: I've responded to your inquiries. Thank you for the review! Unlimitedlead (talk) 15:09, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Besides the image thing, I think we're good on all accounts. Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:19, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we need a source to the claim that the picture may represents Constantine Lekapenos. Alternativelly, the picture could be deleted. I think it is not highly relevant. Borsoka (talk) 02:41, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I just went ahead and deleted it. Unlimitedlead (talk) 03:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I support the promotion of this interesting article. Thank you for completing it. Borsoka (talk) 06:02, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

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Hello Unlimitedlead and Iazyges, happy to do the image review. The article contains the following images:

Both images are relevant to the text and placed in appropriate locations. They have alt texts and captions. I didn't spot any issues. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:07, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

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Recusing to review.

  • Far too many commas. Suggest removing every second one.
Very funny, Gog.
  • Runciman: the chapter needs a page range.
I don't have access to this source. I think Iazyges does, though.
  • "Romanos, who had made himself emperor in 920". Delete "had".
Done.
  • It is usual in the lead of a bio to give some information on the subject's date of birht.
Done.
  • "but they themselves were exiled after attempting to oust Constantine VII." Is it known when this was?
Done.
  • "Christopher was the eldest son and ..." It is usual to give a person's full name at first mention.
Done.
  • "the Byzantine military general Romanos Lekapenos". Is "military" necessary?
Done.
  • "Theophylact (Patriarch of Constantinople in 933–956)". Lower-case p?
Done.
  • "Before his father had taken the throne". That odd tense again. "had taken" → 'took'.
Done.
  • "who held the high court rank of patrikios." This being the English language Wikipedia, and MOS:NOFORCELINK being what it is, could we share what a patrikios is with the readers?
Runciman described him as a "patrician", so that's the replacement I went with.
  • "had assumed control of Boukoleon Palace". 1. Should there be a definite article in there? 2. What does this mean? Did he storm it with an armed force?
1. I thought of the name as a proper noun so I'm not sure if one is required 2. I specified that Romanos took control of the palace via military force.
Ha! That was me being funny, little did I know.
  • "successfully had his daughter Helena Lekapene married to the 13-year-old emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos". 1. Why "successfully"? I mean, he couldn't have unsuccessfully had his daughter married. 2. Constantine springs a bit from nowhere. Any chance of some background and/or introducing him?
Done and done.
  • "assumed the role of guardian of the emperor", Upper-case E.
Done.
  • "with the title basileopator". Which tells a reader what?
Removed.
Done.
  • "Romanos crowned his wife, Theodora, as augusta". Why are you writing in Greek? And foreign language words - that are not - proper nouns - should be in lang templates, not italics.
Augusta is just one of those titles of antiquity that has no English translation. Also they are in language templates already.
  • "Some solidi dating from Christopher's time". What's a solidi
Added brief explanation.

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:41, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • "appears beardless and smaller than his father." Definitely "smaller" and not shorter?
Fixed.
  • "On the third day of the feast". What feast.
Marriage feast. Clarified.
  • "On the third day of the feast, 10 October, held in Pegae, at the insistence of the Bulgarians, perhaps engineered by Romanos, Christopher was advanced before Constantine Porphyrogennetos, making him first among the rather large group of co-emperors." 1. This is a bit convoluted. Maybe split into two - or more - sentences? 2. What does "advanced before" mean? I don't find that "making him first among the rather large group of co-emperors." helps.
Fixed.
  • Link best man.
Done.
  • "when they attempted to also depose Constantine VII, the people of Constantinople revolted and overthrew them". Is this still in December 944.
Yeah.. that entire situation was a mess. I've reworded it.
  • "Maria-Irene, the Empress-consort of Peter I of Bulgaria." Lower-case e?
Done.

Welcome back. Nice work. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:19, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild I've addressed everything; please do take a look when you get the chance. Thank you for the review. Unlimitedlead (talk) 00:06, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sources: Gratziou is not used.
Just this one new point. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:01, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oops! I forgot to remove it when I deleted the image. Unlimitedlead (talk) 17:39, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

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Hi Unlimitedlead, my comments:

  • The Muttinensis portrait might be creating a MOS:SANDWICH between the infobox and the Early life text. Consider moving it down?
I've since removed the photo anyways.
Done.
  • Translate patrikios, basileopater, magistros and rhaiktor in one or two words per NOFORCELINK?
The first two were done away with anyways; in that spirit, I removed the other two. In any case, all these Greek terms might be bogging down the flow of the article.
  • Clarify that the Boukoleon Palace is in Constantinople per NOFORCELINK?
Done.
  • Helena is linked in both the Early life and Co-emperor sections. Consider removing the second link?
I left it for clarity's sake: in these days, people shared names way too often!
  • The first sentence of the Co-emperor section is too long and confusing. Consider splitting it?
Done.
  • "Romanos crowned Christopher as co-emperor on 20 May 921,": I think you wanted to put a full stop here, not a comma.
Done.
  • "On the third day of the feast, 10 October, held in Pegae, at the insistence of the Bulgarians, perhaps engineered by Romanos, Christopher was advanced before Constantine Porphyrogennetos, making him first among the rather large group of co-emperors.": This sentence is way too confusing. Consider rephrasing it something like this: "On 10 October, the third day of the feast held in Pegae, Christopher was advanced before Constantine Porphyrogennetos, making him first among the rather large group of co-emperors. This was done at the insistence of the Bulgarians, and perhaps engineered by Romanos".
Done.
  • Constantine VII is linked twice in the Co-emperor section.
Done.
  • The last paragraph of the Co-emperor section has no citations.
Fixed.
  • For Gratziou 1997, please put the English title in the translated title section, and put the original Greek title in its stead.
I removed this source anyways.
  • Link to Charles Previté-Orton, Philip Grierson and Alfred Bellinger in the biblio?
Done.
  • Add the location of publication for Grierson & Bellinger 1973, and Previté-Orton 1975?
Done.
  • Add [2] as the URL for Runciman 1930?
Done.
  • Add the translated title for the PmbZ? I know it's very easily readable in English, but for those unable to read German at all, it would help.
I'm using the Prosopographie der mittelbyzantinischen Zeit template and I'd rather not tamper with its coding. Is it alright if we leave it as is?
  • I found some more information in the PmbZ entry on CL at this link [3]. Do you think some of it could be incorporated in the article? Say his accompaniment of the Bulgarians to the Hebdomon Bakırköy, or the Anacreontics composed on his death.
Done.
  • We mention his burial at the Myrelaion Monastery in the categories, but nowhere is this mentioned in the body.
Fixed.
  • We have added the WPMH project tag for this article, but nowhere do we say anything about CL's military career. There has to be something which can be added here, perhaps about his conflict with the Arabs, especially because his PmbZ entry says the Arabs knew him as Ihrustufur.
Pretty sure he's tagged under WPMH due to his Byzantine offices. I can't say he did much militarily outside of that.
  • This book [4] by Jonathan Shepard has a lot to say on CL (his family, wife, relations with the Bulgars etc). Consider incorporating some of it?
Oh, wow. I didn't expect such a recent work to discuss Christopher. I'm unable to access full-length pages, but the parts than I can see seem to be repeats of information already in the article, if not slightly more long-winded.
  • This page from a book [5] ascribes dates for the Anacreontic poems on CL.
Added.
  • This book [6] says CL's burial at Myrelaion was a break from tradition, because Byzantine emperors till that point were always buried at the Church of the Holy Apostles. Thoughts on this, can it be incorporated?
I've added the information to the article for the time being, but I am unable to find the specific page number of the page where it says that. Any luck on your end?

That's all from me for now. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 13:05, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Unlimitedlead, could you please reply to the last six points? All the others you have replied to are ok with me. Matarisvan (talk) 14:33, 19 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Matarisvan Sorry about that. I've been busy. Do you mind if I get back to you next week on this? Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:34, 19 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Matarisvan I've adressed your comments. Also, I might need your help on the last one... Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:42, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Unlimitedlead, on a second glance, I was also unable to find the page number for the last source. Everything else is ok, and I can support. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 19:27, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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Why is PmbZ inconsistently linked? I can't access the sources so I have to assume accuracy throughout. Is "A History of the Byzantine State and Society" a reliable source - DeGruyter and JSTOR have critical reviews? What is the logic between using OCLC sometimes and ISBN other times? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:53, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the PmbZ is concerned, I'm just following standard boilerplate for Byzantine FACs; let me know if there's something in particular that's drawing your attention. "A History of the Byzantine State and Society" has been removed. The OCLC was used in place of an unknown ISBN. Thanks, Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:01, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
On the subject, Ostrogorsky is giving me an ISBN/date incompatibility warning, which seems fair as I don't think ISBNs were around in the 1950s -- have we got the right edition? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:08, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just replaced it with the SBN. Thanks for that! Unlimitedlead (talk) 20:04, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

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  • "Romanos, who made himself emperor in 920". As Romanos did not depose Constantine VII, he presumably must have made himself co-emperor. This should be clarified as saying emperor is confusing. See also below.
Done.
  • "He was certainly an adult by 919–920, and had a daughter of marriageable age in 927,[3] hence he was probably born around 890–895." 890-895 seems far too specific. It is cited to Runciman. Did he say that?
Removed.
  • "Before his father took the throne, Christopher had married Sophia". This is an odd statement. According to [7], the minimum age of marriage was 12, and if that is correct Irene was presumably born 910-915. He must have married Sophia several years before his father took the throne.
I can see why that might sound confusing. I have rephrased it.
  • "Nothing is known of Christopher's early life. He was certainly an adult by 919–920, and had a daughter of marriageable age in 927.[3] By the time his father took the throne, Christopher had already been married to Sophia [bg], the daughter of the patrician Niketas, a wealthy Slav from the Peloponnese." This still reads a bit oddly to me. How about "Christopher's married Sophia [bg], the daughter of Niketas, a wealthy Slav patrician from the Peloponnese, before Romanos became co-emperor in 920, but nothing else is known of Christopher's early life. He had a daughter of marriageable age in 927." Dudley Miles (talk) 12:54, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Some solidi (a golden coin used in Byzantine currency)" Why golden rather than the usual gold? is there a distinction? Also, it should be coins to agree in number with solidi.
That is my bad. I didn't realize there was a distinction between "gold" and "golden" coins while writing that.
  • "Philip Grierson describes was". This is ungrammatical.
Fixed.
  • "presumably from a wish to conciliate the formal precedence of Constantine [Porphyrogennetos] with Christopher's greater age and Romanus' desire to favor his own son". I do not understand what this quote is saying. The first part appears to say that the beard was to conciliate Constantine and contradicts the second part about favouring his son.
Fixed.
Removed. Thanks.

Unlimitedlead have you addressed Miles' and Matarisvan's comments? This nom has been inactive a week. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 20:13, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that. I've been a little busy. I'll try to work on it this week, but I will be out of town next week, so if I don't get to it this week, I'd be able to get back to it on the 11th. Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Dudley Miles I've adressed your comments. Thank you for the review. Unlimitedlead (talk) 15:17, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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