Talk:William Bartram (North Carolina politician)

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A fact from William Bartram (North Carolina politician) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 February 2025 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that William Bartram was both the father of William Bartram and the grandfather of William Bartram?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2025/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William Bartram (Pennsylvania politician).

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 03:00, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

)

... that William Bartram was the father of William Bartram and the grandfather of two William Bartrams, including the naturalist?

Source: Melvin, Lionel (December 15, 1971). "There Were Four William Bartrams" – via Digital Collections of the State Library of North Carolina.

ALT1: ... that William Bartram was both the father of William Bartram and the grandfather of William Bartram? Source: ibidem
Reviewed:
- Template:Did you know nominations/Girl in pink jacket
- Template:Did you know nominations/T. K. Waters

Created by Aneirinn (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. Nominator has 6 past nominations.

Aneirinn (talk) 07:00, 26 January 2025 (UTC).[reply]

Reviewing:-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:43, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Both over 2k so plenty long enough. Created 1/21 and 1/25. New enough.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:41, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No copyvio alarms.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:46, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No images to consider.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:47, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All facts in the main body appear to be sourced.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:53, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- However, the WP:LEAD is written without any citation, but contains facts not mentioned in the main body. If it is summarizing the main body this is not proper. All facts in the article must be sourced. Discussion of legislature service, which is the most important content in the article of William Bartram (North Carolina politician) needs to be sourced in the main body. No facts should be in the LEAD that are not summaries of the main body.William Bartram (Pennsylvania politician) mentions his grandson in the LEAD and no where else. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It might be fixed now. Aneirinn (talk) 18:10, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Check that each fact in the (uncited) LEAD can be WP:V in the main body where the citations can be found. This is not the current case regarding the facts I mentioned above.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:13, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  - The legislative service of William the younger and grandson of William the elder is mentioned in the body of the articles (see William Bartram (North Carolina politician)#Biography and William Bartram (Pennsylvania politician)#Family). Exactly what remains to be mentioned? Aneirinn (talk) 01:55, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    1. At William Bartram (Pennsylvania politician)#Family, 1. I am not seeing the mention of 2nd generation's service. Please quote where it is mentioned. 2. This 3rd William Bartram is the grandson and is not mentioned in the main body.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:17, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    2. At William Bartram (North Carolina politician)#Biography, The uncle relationship is not clearly presented in the body. Please clarify kinship.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:17, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This has began to confuse me. I am also confused by this term "main body". Everything that is being questioned is featured in the body or the body sections of the articles. I will break this down by article.
William Bartram (Pennsylvania politician)
"mentions his grandson in the LEAD and no where else." – It is mentioned in the section "Family". "William Bartram the emigrant was the grandfather of the naturalist."
- I think I may have been looking for the words William Bartram, but did not find such text referring to the right person.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:12, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"I am not seeing the mention of 2nd generation's service." – His legislative service is mentioned in the section "Biography". "Following in his father's footsteps, Bartram was chosen to be a member of the Pennsylvania Provincial Assembly and represented Chester County in 1708." I also just added "and was a member of the colonial legislature for many years." in the mention of his son William.
- I think I got confused as to the referent of "Following in his father's footsteps", but I guess 1708 should have clued me in.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:41, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
William Bartram (North Carolina politician)
"The uncle relationship is not clearly presented in the body." – See the section "Visits by John and William Bartram". "John Bartram visited his half-brother William Bartram many times during the 1760s. William Bartram, the naturalist, or Billy as his father John and mother Ann had called him... Billy left Ashwood in the latter part of 1772, by the time his uncle, his uncle's wife Elizabeth, and cousin William had all died." Aneirinn (talk) 21:33, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- So "William Bartram, the naturalist, or Billy as his father John and mother Ann had called him,[16][17] lived with the Bartrams at Ashwood for four years, from 1761 to 1765." is saying that subject's nephew lived with him from 1761-5 and latter until 1772?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:55, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  - The amount of William Bartrams (and Elizabeths) are prone to causing confusion. Yes, William Bartram the naturalist lived with Col. William Bartram at Ashwood from 1761–1765 and came back in 1771, by the time Col. William Bartram had died, and then Col. William Bartram's son William Bartram, the cousin of William Bartram the naturalist, died in 1771, likely during William Bartram the naturalist's stay at Ashwood. William Bartram the naturalist left Ashwood late in the year 1772. Aneirinn (talk) 03:51, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'll go blind if I try to think about your response. So I'll get back to the review. Content is written in a neutral manner. The hook is cited, interesting and concise enough. It seems that you are in need of a second QPQ credit.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:21, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

all set WP:AGF for some offline refs.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]