Talk:Waipaoa River

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Requested move 27 March 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:31, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Waipaoa River → Waipāoa River – Waipāoa is the correct Māori spelling of the name, and is referred to as such in official government pages. We already recognise that Pāoa's name is spelled with a tohutō over the first a, so it makes no sense to spell Waipāoa incorrectly. Waipāoa is spelled with a tohutō over the first a by Te Ara, an official government encyclopedia, Digital NZ, NZ history, another government website, as well as multiple other sites. Kiwiisabirdok (talk) 23:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 12:15, 4 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 11:19, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NCNZ. Sorry, but LINZ lists "Waipaoa River" without a macron as the official name: https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/place/46518 PatricKiwi (talk) 05:55, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While I understand your reasoning, in cases where it's officially misspelled, it might be better to use the correct tohutō regardless. Otherwise, it's hard to know when you are supposed to use its official government name or its original name, leading to a confusing constant switching and making it a pain to refer to. Since

- it has been called Waipāoa in other official government websites

- Waipāoa is the correct spelling according to the original name and its meaning

- using its older name would make it easier to refer to and make not only this article but other articles mentioning it consistent

I believe this is a case where we should ignore all rules and use the original spelling, for clarity and consistency. Kiwiisabirdok (talk) 02:39, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, the Gazetteer is the authority on place names and once a name has been made official, they’ve gone through quite a process. I find the people who run the show there very good to work with. Flick me an email if you want to be introduced to them; they can make their background material available to you, Kiwiisabirdok. Schwede 66 16:25, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support I dont think NCNZ actually opposes the title change. I dont see much reason not to use the macron personally. --Spekkios (talk) 08:10, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is not straightforward. The river is not named after Pāoa, the Waikato chief – there is, however, evidence that it is named after the one-time captain of the Horouta waka who had a similar name. However, there is disagreement as to whether the captain was Pāoa, Paoa, Pāwa or Pawa. Kiwiisabirdok cites Te Ara encyclopedia, Digital NZ and NZHistory, however the latter two are just recycling info from Te Ara, so really that is just one source. However, Te Ara encyclopedia is not consistent with this name. It most often uses Waipāoa, but uses Waipaoa on two pages [1], [2]. In the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography it is a different story – out of 13 articles, 3 include the macron and 10 omit it (if I counted correctly), e.g. [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. As PatricKiwi notes, the official name is Waipaoa River – this was gazetted recently (2020) (not in older days when LINZ made little effort to include macrons) as one of 363 names in which macrons appear to have been used consistently. Therefore I presume that macrons were omitted from Waipaoa deliberately. Te Ika-a-Māui tangata whenua place names map index from LINZ, which also uses macrons consistently and was updated in April 2024, gives Waipaoa, with the 'kōrero' "river of Paoa". I would support the move if the evidence for the macron was strong, but the evidence is split, and I am loath to go against the "Tangata whenua place names" source. Nurg (talk) 01:16, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board has been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 12:15, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Nurg. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:48, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is the English Wikipedia. We're not required to follow Maori orthographic conventions. Zacwill (talk) 16:58, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there is currently a consensus that we use macrons for long vowels in words of Māori origin. Nurg (talk) 01:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I posted a comment above without coming to a Support or Oppose conclusion at that time. I am not fully convinced either way as to whether the vowel is short or long. I don't know what evidence the New Zealand Geographic Board based their decision on, but I presume they do have evidence, and I have decided to follow them, per their 2020 Gazette notice and their recently update "Tangata whenua place names" (both linked in my earlier comment). Nurg (talk) 01:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.