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I also agree, on the grounds that Russia has done all the same things as Israel and worse, including forced Russification/assimilation and child abductions. Also, the current title is quite long, maybe something like “Russian genocide against Ukrainians/against Ukraine” would work better. SpiderMandem (talk) 20:44, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. It makes absolutely no sense given how low the bar was set for approving that term for Gaza on here, despite the very unique situation going on in Gaza with plain-clothes enemies, whom use civilian infrastructure, not military bases/outposts and that has to be fought within an extremely dense city filled with civilians and winding underground tunnels, a situation with nothing to really compare to in history to be making these determinations about intent.
It's much easier to argue Gaza is just a "war" than it is to argue Russia is not committing genocide against Ukraine by invading it completely unprovoked to overthrow it and absorb it into Russia. Over 100,000 Ukrainians have likely been killed at this point.
The people refusing to accept this change need to take a step back and recognize the bias they're enforcing here, otherwise they should be going and revoking that claim in the Gaza-related articles.
What other articles get titled are not a good justification. If you wish to rename the article, you will need to start a RM, though I would suggest before doing that, incorporating the academic sources in "Further reading" into the article, as these provide assessment by specialists in the field and are published in some of the best RS available. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 16:03, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Whataboutism is never a good argument, as different situations have different conditions. However now the ICC has issued arrest warents, yes. It is hard to see how these are now just allegations. Slatersteven (talk) 17:34, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
i believe a section about counterarguments or points which go against the connotation of 'Genocide' should be added to ensure some extra neutrality. civilian casualty numbers have flatlined after 2022 due to the near-complete evacuation of all of the towns and cities being fought over, casualty ratios (russia has killed 50-80 Ukranian Soldiers per Ukranian Civilian, comparing to gaza israel has killed 7-9 gazan civilians per hamas member), semantics between a group of war crimes done by russia and a full-scale genocide (the intent part that covers this has lots of opinion pieces and not factual evidence to prove intent), and even reports of human shields. i know it is hard to be neutral in these topics (specially when most people here are from the west), but neutrality is the point of wikipedia. MerluchWK (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The truth is always neutral. Russia is committing genocide against Ukrainians and that is the truth, so it is a neutral thing to say. Counterarguments that contradict the truth are by definition lies and do not belong on Wikipedia. Electronicium2 (talk) 21:49, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The truth in social sciences is the biproduct of a rigourous debate with counter arguments to test the validity of the proposed hypothesis.
This is from the UN with my comments in cursive:
Killing members of the group; As the countries are at war, it seems quite obvious that members of the "Ukranian group" has been killed.
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Cf. point 1.
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Based merely on the number of civilian deaths according to the UN, one could argue that while their is an infliction upon the "Ukranian group", the condition "its physical destruction" is not met, because it isn't developing as i.e. in Gaza or say during the Rwandan genocide. The Russians aren't reaching towards the destruction of say Lviv although it get hit.
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;It is unclear albeit I haven't seen evidence to suggest that Russia prevents births.
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.There is known cases of this and Russia has been accused of this by the ICJ.
Hence, to argue that it is as clear as day, as you do, is false even based on anecdotal evidence. However, there are evidence that suggests taht Russia is in fact and beyond the scope of war inflicting traumatic damage.
I wrote "Ukranian group" as a reference to the UN. The aforementioned is merely an example of how it could be done and should not be seen as a deep researched response. Kimse84 (talk) 12:15, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Civilians and soldiers are both victims of the genocide. The objective is to erase Ukraine as a nation and forcibly assimilate or exterminate its population. As soldiers are Ukrainians killed as part of the war with genocidal goals, the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed is irrelevant. In addition, international organisations have found no evidence that Ukraine’s use of human shields is systematic or an official tactic: the claim that Ukraine used human shields has been repeatedly debunked as a Russian excuse for deliberate attacks on innocent civilians. SpiderMandem (talk) 20:22, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian War → Ukrainian Genocide – Proposed changing the title to Ukrainian Genocide. There is evidence that a Ukrainian Genocide is going on see sources linked and sources on website for reasoning title change.
Two of those sources reference genocide. The others don't mention it.
Atlantic Council: The Russian establishment has enthusiastically followed Putin’s lead. Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev has stated that “the existence of Ukraine is mortally dangerous for Ukrainians,” while top Putin aide Nikolai Patrushev recently suggested Ukraine may soon “cease to exist.” Meanwhile, poisonous anti-Ukrainian language has become so commonplace in the Kremlin-controlled Russian media that UN investigators believe it may constitute “incitement to genocide.” This week’s presidential decree threatening to deport Ukrainians from their own homes is the latest reminder that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is no mere border dispute or attempt to address legitimate security concerns. It is a colonial war of the most brutal kind that aims to destroy Ukraine as a state and as a nation. In the heart of Europe and before the watching world, Putin is openly pursuing policies that almost certainly meet the definition of ethnic cleansing and may qualify as genocide.
OHCHR: The Commission is also concerned about allegations of genocide in Ukraine. For instance, some of the rhetoric transmitted in Russian state and other media may constitute incitement to genocide. The Commission is continuing its investigations on such issues.
Based on these statements, the investigations are still preliminary and have not reached a conclusion yet. Thus, they are at the moment allegations. But should the investigations reach the conclusion of genocide, the article's title should be adjusted accordingly. JasonMacker (talk) 17:38, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support rename to Genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian War, following precedent of the Gaza genocide article being titled as such based on expert legal opinion and recognition by international bodies like the ICC. JJARichardson (talk) 16:25, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The ICC has not ruled that Israel or any Israeli official has committed the crime of genocide. Read the article listing the charges. Genocide isn't among them. Nevertheless, this article is about Russia's conduct in the Russia-Ukraine war, which means it inherently cannot use Gaza genocide as precedent, because the facts are different. Specifically, reading the charges presented by the ICC, they don't include genocide, even though the ICC can prosecute individuals for genocide. Yes, the claim made against Russia, that Russia has unlawfully transferred Ukrainian children, may amount to genocide per Article 2e of the genocide convention. However, that's not the conclusion that Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and many other important human rights organizations have reached. Check out this search for "Ukraine" in Amnesty International's articles. They haven't accused Russia of genocide. Again, whether or not they should is a separate question as to whether or not they have. They have not. In contrast, check out this search for "Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory" which immediately returns multiple articles that say Israel is committing genocide. As I said above, once a consensus for genocide is established, the article's title should be changed accordingly. JasonMacker (talk) 22:45, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Russia's actions in Ukraine fulfill key criteria of genocide as defined by the UN Genocide Convention. Genocide is the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. Evidence from the war in Ukraine suggests that Russian forces have targeted Ukrainian identity through mass killings of civilians (e.g., Bucha), systematic abductions and forced deportations of children to Russia, and rhetoric from Russian state actors denying Ukraine’s right to exist as a nation. These acts, combined with policies aimed at erasing Ukrainian language, culture, and historical narratives, indicate an intent not merely to occupy territory but to eliminate Ukrainian national identity—hallmarks of genocidal behavior under international law. 134.155.162.155 (talk) 20:22, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support I fully agree. In the Russian race ideology the Ukrainian people don't even exist (as separate entity or people). Goes hand in hand with "Stage 4: Dehumanization" [1], the Ukrainians are not people but Nazis, Fascists and whatnot. The goal is to bring the "fellow Russians" "back into the reich". To strengthen this perception the Russians move ethnical Russians to occupied territory (as seen in Crimea). Coincides with forceful displacement. The most mask down and disgusting form of this is the obduction of children. They are being stripped of their identity, and are getting told that they are Russians. This is erasure of the Ukrainian identity, or genocide. This would happen to ever child in a total occupation. Plus mass killings on direct order and all the above. Also, I think we shouldn't be to 'shy' with the term. Yes, there have been 'worse' things we consider genocide, but that doesn't mean, everything that doesn't 'hit' this 'threshold', isn't genocide. In the best case we, call these mass killings something that it isn't per definition. In the worst, we deny the intentional erasure of a people. And personally I think, not addressing it as what it is, is part of the problem. People still don't realize the extent of Russia's actions, and still think, it's just another 'normal' war about moving imaginary lines on maps because of politics. FaboVonDestory (talk) 14:23, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: The sources presented do not support the proposed move. None of the sources refer to the crimes and actions of Russia in Ukraine as "genocide"; some explicitly state that the investigation is still ongoing.Marcelus (talk) 20:36, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Genocide it not about the amount of houses blown up, its about the erasure of an people and their identity. Exactly what Russia is aiming for, even in their own narative. FaboVonDestory (talk) 07:26, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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