Talk:Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools

Updated TRACS logo

Hello editors, I uploaded TRACS' new logo to Wikipedia under fair use. Can editors replace the old logo with File:TRACS_Logo_Main.svg in the infobox? User:Naraht, giving you a heads up since you have been involved in the development of this article. Thanks! Andy at TRACS (talk) 19:14, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Andy at TRACS A reasonable request, but if you look at the uploaded page, you'll see that there is a note, "This non-free media file should be replaced with a smaller version...". Essentially, the version of the image uploaded is "too good" in that Wikipedia can't use it since its quality would lead to copyright issues. An automated process ( a "bot") will come by (I *think* it runs daily) and do a reduction. When that happens, I'll be happy to make the change. If the "smaller version" note isn't gone in a week, I'll go and seek a solution.Naraht (talk) 21:32, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Bot reduced and page changed.Naraht (talk) 07:11, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

User:Naraht: Thank you very much! Next, I will request specific updates to the History section. Before I do, I will look over my draft and take into account other feedback you have given. If there is anything else you'd recommend for the History section, let me know. Andy at TRACS (talk) 18:56, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

TRACS History section

Hello Rusalkii and Naraht! I've updated the draft in my user space and am hoping that you two might take a look and offer any additional suggestions you might have. I wanted to create this discussion to holistically address the concerns you both expressed about the History section of this article and we can come to a consensus about updating the content. Below, I'll outline my responses to the various concerns raised in previous discussions.

In response to your concerns, I've revised the opening to be more distinct from source material while maintaining accuracy:

The Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools was founded in 1979 as a non-profit organization that accredits Christian post-secondary institutions.

References

 Done

I've also verified that all tracs.org references link to their correct locations.

While I understand why you think the connection between ICR and TRACS is noteworthy, I omitted specific details about ICR members' involvement in the draft due to the lack of Wikipedia-appropriate sources. However, I did have this sentence added to the article:

In 2007, the Institute of Creation Research, whose founder was on TRACS' board, withdrew from TRACS membership, in part because it relocated to Texas, a state that did not recognize TRACS accreditation at the time.

References

 Done

I didn't include the ICR source that Rusalkii added, because the sourcing was primary and written by Morris himself. However, if editors decide to include it, I understand.

Let me know what you all think, I would love to collaborate in order to update the History section with more accurate information and sourcing.

Thanks Andy at TRACS (talk) 23:15, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

I have added in the first sentence - seems like a clear improvement. I think fairly evaluating how much of the connection between ICR and TRACS should remain in the drafts requires a more in-depth look at the sourcing than I have time for, leaving that for other editors.

Noting that I don't feel strongly about keeping the source I added, it was intended as a bandaid for "this quote doesn't have any source" rather than something I actively think needs to be in the article. Rusalkii (talk) 01:53, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Rusalkii: Thank you for updating that sentence. It feels cleaner. Naraht: Are there any other suggestions you would make to my proposed History section? I'm happy to review any feedback. Andy at TRACS (talk) 18:54, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Which direction

I'm not sure if it makes more sense to shave off the "Easy" parts or dive straight to the "Difficult" Ones. As I see it the difficult differences between the proposed version and the existing version include

1. ) Timothy Sandefur's entire entry in Panda's thumb. At the current time I see 81 articles that reference it, would probably need a challenge as a RS to get it removed, balancing it with a statement from TRACS on the subject might be best. TBH, removal of this and what is referenced from it is probably the single change that would change the POV of the article.
2. ) Names of people in common between ICR and TRACS. Henry Morris is not the only one, See above on the talk page for a list.
3. ) Interpretation of Levicoff's book. the proposed definitely softens that. I *really* wish I had access to a copy.Naraht (talk) 19:26, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello User:Naraht!

Maybe we can begin with the easy and work our way to the hard? I am looking into sourcing that addresses your specific concerns. What exactly were the easy parts you think we can handle now in the meantime? Andy at TRACS (talk) 18:29, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

I think the entry on the Historically Black schools probably belongs at the bottom of the History section (mostly because I don't think it belongs in the Lead and doesn't make sense in the other sections.Naraht (talk) 14:20, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello User:Naraht!

That sounds good, we can move that line to be the last sentence of the History section. Anything else? Andy at TRACS (talk) 18:20, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello, User:Naraht!

I have moved that sentence about HBCUs to the last sentence of the History section in the draftspace.

Additionally, see below my answers to address your questions:

• 1: I have added a sentence referencing the Panda's Thumb article and Sandefur's point of view to the draft in a neutral and encyclopedic manner. Please see here for the updated draft.
• 2: The Articles of Incorporation on the TRACS website lists its founding members. Please see the updated draft for my proposed incorporation of this information.
• 3: I was able to find a copy of the book in our library, see below the passage that supports the information I have included in the draft. I included surrounding text to help give you context, but have bolded the last sentence to emphasize the most important part to verifying my proposed update:

It's pure speculation on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me if Liberty were to maintain their TRACS accreditation as a hedge against the possible loss of their regional accreditation at some point in the future.

In addition to Liberty, other TRACS-accredited schools that are accredited by agencies recognized by both the United States Department of Education and COPA are The Criswell College in Dallas, Texas (also accredited by SACS), Christian Heritage College (which was co-founded by TRACS' Chairman of the Board, Henry Morris, and is also accredited by the Western Association), and Florida Bible College (also accredited by the American Association of Bible Colleges). These schools may feel that TRACS accreditation is a further credible expression of their legitimacy or a hedge against future negative action toward one of the other accreditors, or may simply support TRACS' mission and/or doctrinal statement.

Schools that might have a moral objection to becoming accredited by a regional agency, AABC, or ATS may have less of a problem with TRACS, which has a more pervasively biblical doctrinal statement with which schools holding to the "young earth" creation doctrine can agree.

Legitimate schools that have been recognized by TRACS never applied for regional or professional accreditation in the first place, have nothing with which to compare TRACS, have never considered the arguments I raise in this chapter, and may be unaware that TRACS has also recognized several questionable schools.

In summary, TRACS' limited recognition is somewhat tenuous and their reputation is somewhat controversial. Students are better off enrolling in schools that are accredited by a regional association, the American Association of Bible Colleges, or the Association of Theological Schools, all of which are fully recognized by both accreditor-approving agencies (the Department of Education and COPA) and by other academic institutions.

Having reported several negative findings about TRACS, let me say a few positive things before we move on. First, unlike some of the accreditation mills that are named in this book, TRACS is obviously a sincere effort to bring quality to Christian higher education. I think that they've been sloppy in some of their methodology, but I have no doubt about the legitimacy of their motivation. Second, there are several reputable scholars who are on the board of TRACS and who serve on TRACS accreditation teams, more than can be said about the accreditation mills. The mere existence of TRACS underscores a need for reform in the world of accreditation, as evidenced by recent controversies with some regional accrediting agencies that will be discussed in Chapter 5. Finally, TRACS has responded positively to some of the criticisms in this book (which an accreditation mill wouldn't have done), which also underscores the legitimacy of their motivation.

I believe the wording in my proposed draft sufficiently summarizes the sentiments expressed in the book. However, I am open to hearing your thoughts on the matter. Andy at TRACS (talk) 01:47, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello, User:Naraht!

Just wondering if you had any questions on the above, I know it was a lot of information. Don't hesitate to reach out! Thanks Andy at TRACS (talk) 19:28, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, distracted by other things. What is COPA?Naraht (talk) 23:31, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

No problem, User:Naraht

COPA, the Council on Postsecondary Accreditation, was a non-governmental coordinating agency that recognized and coordinated accrediting agencies in the US until it dissolved in 1993, with its functions later taken over by the Commission on Recognition of Postsecondary Accreditation (CORPA) and then CHEA. Let me know if you have any further questions! Andy at TRACS (talk) 16:06, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Andy at TRACS, just checking in to see if this request was completed / if anything still needs doing? I'm aware it's been in the backlog for a few months now. Thanks, Encoded  Talk 💬 21:56, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Encoded, Thank you for checking in, yes these requests are still open. I did not want to bother the editor too much as he said he was getting busy on the talk page. Do you have any suggestions on improving or moving this forward?

Thanks and have a fantastic day! Andy at TRACS (talk) 14:41, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Andy at TRACS, thanks for the reply - I'll review where the request/conversation got up to and get back to you either today or tomorrow. Thanks, Encoded  Talk 💬 15:36, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Andy at TRACS, I think I'm up to date -

1. I believe the section regarding the book is appropriate and neutral in tone.

2. This is also done appropriately.

3. I believe that the text provided supports point 1, but I'm not able to independently confirm this as I also do not have direct access from the book - however, I have been able to find news sources on the internet which support the passage provided and I believe it is accurate and am satisfied with it's use as a reliable source.

I'm happy with the changes made from Narahat's request - I'm assuming the goal is to replace the article with the draft linked in your original message?

Thanks, Encoded  Talk 💬 10:51, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to familiarize yourself with all of the materials. yes, the goal is to replace the article with the draft linked in the original message.

If you are ok with it, I will put up a final request later this week and tag you, so you can review and give your input on having those changes also imrpove the TRACS article.

I was holding off on the next request until this one is completed and closed. Have a great day! Andy at TRACS (talk) 18:21, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

Andy at TRACS It's not clear that the first two items have already been implemented. They have been, and so I marked the items above as done. The rest of this is overly long and confusing. I recommend you simplify and reopen a new request. I also pasted the proposed draft you linked to at the top into a new article edit window so I could preview the changes, and don't think the new version is an improvement. Too much info is being removed without an explanation, changing the meaning. I recommend you open a more specific request, focusing on more specific sections, rather than doing a bulk rewrite that's hard to follow. You might want to use the code I describe here to make it easier for editors to follow the requests. STEMinfo (talk) 23:24, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the code that allows for connected edits. I'll use this in my update requests. Thank you for clarifying, and I will follow your advice. Have a great day! Andy at TRACS (talk) 14:56, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Updates to the Introduction

Hello Naraht and Encoded I was wondering if you would be interested in helping with a simpler edit request to update the Introduction? My proposed introduction does the following:

• Rewrites the first paragraph to focus on TRACS's location and recognition by the United States Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation.

• The second paragraph includes the types of accreditation TRACS offers and the locations of schools its accredits. It also streamlines mention of HBCUs, removing the phrasing "significant accreditor" from the Introduction.

• The rest of my proposed introduction clarifies TRACS's faith-based requirements for schools.

Here is my proposed version:

The Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS) is a private Christian accreditation agency based in Forest, Virginia. TRACS has been continuously recognized by the United States Department of Education since 1991 and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation since 2001.

TRACS accredits or pre-accredits more than 100 institutions, including colleges, universities, and seminaries, in numerous states, U.S. territories, and other countries. TRACS serves as a link to Title III funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs). TRACS is notable for requiring institutions to be a part of the "evangelical protestant tradition in higher education" in their accreditation standards.

Through 2018, TRACS required its accredited schools to have a statement of faith that affirms "the inerrancy and historicity of the Bible" and "the divine work of non-evolutionary creation including persons in God's image".

Let me know what you think, I would love to collaborate again on this section.

Thanks! Andy at TRACS (talk) 15:16, 22 July 2025 (UTC)