Talk:The Tale of Sim Chong

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Yano's table

The Yano paper I cited tabulates a comparison of four texts, labeled abcd:

a Wanpan bon A text, ca. 1905
b Sin Jae-hyo [ko] (申在孝)'s retelling, c. 1870
c Park Sunho (박순호 朴順浩)' owned copy, in Hangeul pilsabon gososeol jaryo chongseo (한글필사본고소설자료총서 ハングル筆寫本古小說資料叢書) 73:429–465, c. 18th cent. [transcribed into mod. hangul by Yu Young-Dae (劉永大 유영대)]
d "Sim Cheong gut" (shamanic song), Sin Dong-ik 신동익 申東益 (1971) "Muga Sim Cheong jeun 巫歌沈淸傳", Hanguk minsokhak 韓國民俗學 4

Mainly I'm listing this as cypher for what Yano's abcd texts are in further discussion, though of course this information should be useful for further inquiry or expansion of the wiki page.--Kiyoweap (talk) 17:06, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Parents' names

The pre-existing wikiarticle (1048157584) had the father's name as "Sim Hyeon and his wife Jeong" which I deleted.

Instead I used "Sim Hakgyu" (沈鶴圭、ハッキュ) and Lady Gwak, as appears in the Wanpan bon edition (a text).^[1]

The father's name appears as "Sim Hakku" (沈鶴九、ハック) in Sin Jae-hyo's pansori (b text).^[2]

The father is "Sim Eun (沈ウン→심은?)" and mother's surname is "Ryang/Yang-ssi"(梁氏, Lady Ryang or Lady Yang) in the 18c. pansori (c text).--Kiyoweap (talk) 12:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Yano, Yuriko [in Japanese] (1999), "Shimchonjon no henyō to Sayhoime setsuwa to no hikaku" 沈清伝の変容とサヨヒメ説話との比較 (PDF), Kōshō bungei kenkyū 口承文芸研究 (in Japanese) (22): 66
^ Myung, Jinsook (1992-03-01), "Kenkyū happyō Shimchonjon to Chikamatsu ni miru oyako kankei" 研究発表　『沈清伝』と近松に見る親子関係 [Parent-child relationship in Shimchonjeon and Chikamatsu], Proceedings of the International Conference on Japanese Literature in Japan 国際日本文学研究集会会議録 (in Japanese) (15): 71–, doi:10.24619/00002167

Requested move 17 April 2025

It has been proposed in this section that The Tale of Sim Chong be renamed and moved to The Tale of Sim Cheong.

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The Tale of Sim Chong → The Tale of Sim Cheong – The correct Romanization of the Korean name 심청 is Sim Cheong, following the Revised Romanization system. The spelling "Sim Chong" more closely resembles the Hangul 심총, which is incorrect. For consistency and linguistic accuracy, I believe the title should reflect the proper Romanization: Sim Cheong. BillFordSupremacy (talk) 08:50, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. My understanding per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) and Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/Romanization of Korean on Wikipedia is that McCune–Reischauer should be used for pre-1945 topics, which certainly includes classical Korean literature. Exceptions are made in accordance with WP:COMMONNAME and other universal or topic-specific policies, guidelines, and practices. Ngram does not show a strong or consistent usage preference in English-language sources. I understand Ngram does not account for the reliability of sources. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 15:24, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

MR romanization would be Sim Ch'ŏng, RR as proposed by nominator is Sim Cheong, and the current article title uses Sim Chong, reflecting neither standard. The bolded text in the lead indicates Shim Ch'ŏng (note 'Sh' instead of 'S') is an alternative title. When I Google the tale of sim chong it returns results for Shim Chong. This Ngram indicates Shim Ch'ong is most common but this usage has fallen after a spike culminating in the year 2000; presently there is no overwhelming "winner" per Ngram and I again note that Ngram has its limitations here. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 17:43, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I posted a notice of this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 01:49, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per my comments above. I had hoped knowledgeable editors would weigh in here. The proposed title is not supported by Korean naming conventions, common usage, or other typical considerations. The current title might be broken but I am not confident in making this assessment. I see no history of moves in recent years. WP:TITLECHANGES favors maintaining longstanding, stable article titles absent a good reason to select an alternative. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 16:22, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Yano, Yuriko [in Japanese] (1999), "Shimchonjon no henyō to Sayhoime setsuwa to no hikaku" 沈清伝の変容とサヨヒメ説話との比較 (PDF), Kōshō bungei kenkyū 口承文芸研究 (in Japanese) (22): 66

[2] Myung, Jinsook (1992-03-01), "Kenkyū happyō Shimchonjon to Chikamatsu ni miru oyako kankei" 研究発表　『沈清伝』と近松に見る親子関係 [Parent-child relationship in Shimchonjeon and Chikamatsu], Proceedings of the International Conference on Japanese Literature in Japan 国際日本文学研究集会会議録 (in Japanese) (15): 71–, doi:10.24619/00002167

[1]

[2]