Talk:Soccer in Australia

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This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, program, labour (but Labor Party)) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Football: Australia High‑importance

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	This article is supported by the Australian soccer task force (assessed as Top-importance).

Australia: Soccer High‑importance

	Australia portal Soccer in Australia is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia
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	This article is supported by the Australian soccer task force (assessed as Top-importance).
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Moved, 26 February 2006, from Soccer in Australia to Football (soccer) in Australia.
Moved, 2 January 2008, from Football (soccer) in Australia to Association football in Australia.
Moved, 8 July 2011, from Association football in Australia to Soccer in Australia, see discussion.
Not moved, 17 August 2013, from Soccer in Australia to Football in Australia, see discussion.
Not moved, 4 November 2016, from Soccer in Australia to Association Football in Australia, see discussion.
Not moved, 12 June 2023, from Soccer in Australia to Association football in Australia, see discussion.
Not moved, 23 March 2025, from Soccer in Australia to Association football in Australia, see discussion.

Archives (index)

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by when more than 4 sections are present.

It is clearly not Soccer

Edit warring, and civility issues from now blocked IP. Lupin VII (talk) 04:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Despite the comments from the unwashed masses who have no interest in the sport and make comments based on the prediction of denigration of the term "football" as compared to its "common" usage names for "Rugby League" and "AFL" or "Aussie Rules" the name is football and it has always been football around the world for more than 100 years... There is no confusion when the correct names for the sport are used rather than denigerations such as "mungo ball" or "hand egg" stop with the bias please ladies.

IF all the articles on Wikipedia used their correct name with appropriate redirects there would be no misunderstanding. --101.179.104.172 (talk) 15:29, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The current consensus is to use the "soccer" term per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Football in Australia). See discussion right here: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Football in Australia)#Looking at practical usage here. Your changes may be in good faith but you broke some of the links and changed titles in citations via a search and replace function. Which is why it's reverted. theinstantmatrix (talk) 15:45, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Editors may propose a consensus change by... editing --101.179.104.172 (talk) 15:57, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

…especially to raise previously unconsidered arguments or circumstances. On the other hand, proposing to change a recent consensus can be disruptive. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:58, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

None of these changes are quote unquote "recent." If you would like to challenge it take it up with ANI not with me. I dare you. It won't go anywhere, as the article says "should" and not "must." If you have a problem with that other article take it up with ANI also. I think we're done here --101.179.104.172 (talk) 15:59, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh sorry, I have quoted the wrong sentence. The one that actually follows your quote is: That said, in most cases, an editor who knows a proposed change will modify a matter resolved by past discussion should propose that change by discussion. A sentence about guidance (for new editors, it seems) follows, and I have tried to provide such guidance. However, I now have the impression that guidance is not necessary in this specific case. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:34, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@HiLo48 and others: Wikipedia is not a soapbox for your cause. Please read Wikipedia:Not with particular reference to the last link.

Advocacy, propaganda, or recruitment of any kind: commercial, political, scientific, religious, national, sports-related, or otherwise. An article can report objectively about such things, as long as an attempt is made to describe the topic from a neutral point of view. You might wish to start a blog or visit a forum if you want to convince people of the merits of your opinions.

If you want to have an opinion start your own forum, this is not the place for it. 101.179.104.172 (talk) 03:49, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You've completely missed what consensus means. You're being rude, and have ownership issues. Please stop edit warring. Lupin VII (talk) 04:02, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Most popular?

I decided to conduct a reference check and noticed that the Roy Morgan reference has an updated report for 2017. In the over 14 year old category, soccer is well down from the top. I do not think the claim made in this article is sustainable. - Nick Thorne ^talk 10:54, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is walking a sport? Orcky723 (talk) 03:52, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. SNOW close. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 23:52, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Soccer in Australia → Association football in Australia – Because the sport has become more widely known as "football", in Australia, in the 21st Century (Football Australia), I'd like to see the name changed from "soccer". However, I think we can agree that it should probably match New Zealand (Association football in New Zealand), with "Association football in xxxxx". 90.255.15.152 (talk) 19:04, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NCFA, which clearly states that it should be called soccer. – Material Works ping me! 19:47, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose soccer's the common usage in Australia. SportingFlyer T·C 20:53, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per this discussion about correct usage. Various players from Australia play in England but that does not make them footballers (as Stevie fae Scotland explains from that talk page I've linked. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose We have a well established policy on this at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Football in Australia). This was discussed more than extensively on the Talk page of that policy - Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Football in Australia). Unless a new, very persuasive argument is presented, this policy is not going to change. What happens in New Zealand is irrelevant, because it doesn't have other major, professional sports called football. HiLo48 (talk) 23:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Football in Australia), it should remain as "soccer" FastCube (talk) 06:07, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 18:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as above. Giant Snowman 18:42, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 23 March 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 12:40, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Soccer in Australia → Association football in Australia – I feel it is best to ignore naming conventions and apply Ignore all rules. The Sport is often called "Football" in 21st Century Australia, particularly among younger generations and migrants. Football could still mean anything in Australia. Requested move did happen in June last year, but nearly everyone cited the naming conventions, thus I propose to apply Wikipedia:Ignore all rules which says: "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it." Keep articles about players saying Australian Soccer player in opening though. Also keep Soccer for Team articles. We can discuss that later. Let's just focus on the article title right now. A poll: [1] also shows Soccer is winning by a lot for the word "Football" Servite et contribuere (talk) 06:14, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose no evidence given that the prevailing name of the sport in Australia is (association) football; "often" is not enough. Spike 'em (talk) 08:27, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sources say Soccer is winning battle for word Football: [2] [3] (I know they are both Nine sources and same article, but the age had a poll) Servite et contribuere (talk) 08:50, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Bringing a poll by a soccer journalist is biased and doesn't show anything --SuperJew (talk) 09:02, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can't read the body of the article, but the premise from the headline is that the primary topic for football in Australia is soccer, not that the common name for soccer is football. Spike 'em (talk) 10:01, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't be against applying Ingore all rules to ignore WP:Commonname Servite et contribuere (talk) 10:43, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What is your actual reason for wanting the change then? Seems very much a personal choice, rather than based on any rational argument. Consensus is still necessary, no matter which rules you suggest ignoring. Spike 'em (talk) 10:51, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Of course consensus is necessary. Association Football compared to Football or Soccer is the Neutral Term Servite et contribuere (talk) 11:42, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)@Servite et contribuere: Can you provide sources to back this up please? I'm sympathetic to the idea but I need to see some firm sources to back up that football is the WP:COMMONNAME in Oz to justify. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 08:52, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Saying "Football in Australia" is ambiguous, while "Association football in Australia" is not a common name in any ways. --SuperJew (talk) 09:01, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This has been debated many times, and resulted in WP:NCFIA, and there has been many discussions about the name soccer in Australia and the United States. We seek consensus for change, obtain it or not, but that does not mean that Wikipedia:Ignore all rules trumps every other policy or guideline because you dont agree with the results of that outcome. Matilda Maniac (talk) 12:52, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Matilda Maniac I'm not forcing you to vote a certain way. We don't try to Trump every policy or guideline. Vote by what you think of the proposal which clearly says If a rule prohibits you from improving Wikipedia, ignore it. This is not about the policies, this vote should be about what title is better Servite et contribuere (talk) 13:04, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose because soccer is the common and unambiguous term used in Australia. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:41, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move and WP:SNOW close. Australia has their own kind of "football", so "soccer" is preferred. O.N.R. ^(talk) 14:22, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The proposal includes "Association" in the title, and doesn't create a redirect keep in mind. Servite et contribuere (talk) 14:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 16:17, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I already notified the talk page Servite et contribuere (talk) 16:35, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as above. Giant Snowman 16:19, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Clearly not in common use nor an agreeable alternative. Sounder Bruce 21:10, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose – Flies in the face of evidence and ordinary meaning of policy. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 00:18, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Reliance on an article which describes the sport as "Soccer" in its headline, and which includes a poll showing that usage of the word "football" is strongly divided between different sporting codes in Australia, does not a very convincing argument make. Tomiĉo (talk) 09:33, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Shorter words are often preferred in headlines, and one of the mentions of "football" would have to be "association football" (otherwise it would be similar to saying that "football usually refers to football"). "AFL" is used there to refer to Australian rules football, but the article is Australian rules football in Australia, not AFL in Australia. I think this article can also include "football" in the title, if that is what the sport is usually known as, with "association" to clarify. Peter James (talk) 12:58, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note that if a move did happen in the future (Just as a hypothetical), the intro should be like this; "Association Football in Australia" usually known as either "Soccer" or simply "Football". Also, whilst we can't publish this to articles as it is original research, many of the kids I talk to at the train stations in Sydney call it simply Football, whilst I usually ask them what they mean; they mean what I assume in soccer, but of course, until a reliable source reports on this (Which might be never) trend, even through a poll; we won't be able to publish it. I might do more proposals in the future, especially since society might be different regarding the name, but of course; the final decision lies within the community on these discussions. Thank you Servite et contribuere (talk) 14:56, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Peter James. I misread what you said. Yes, we would have to have "Association" in it if a future move were to happen some time down the track. Honestly Association football just seems like a normal name. We can still keep articles on players saying Soccer player. The game is officially Association football although in most countries, it is usually known as simply Football. Exceptions are out there. And in a country where it is getting closer, I would be open to a future RM in a few years. I feel like the article title and naming conventions could be updated. It is probably just too soon. The article on New Zealand is Association Football, but players are called Footballers rather than Association Footballers. Very few calls it the full name. But people would probably know what it means TBH. In Australia, articles on players should always call them a Soccer Player, even if the article title does change down the line. Thank you Servite et contribuere (talk) 15:05, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the findings above. Instead the base article should be renamed to soccer consistent with usage in the English speaking world (Australia, Canada, USA, NZ, South Africa), and avoiding confusion with other footballs found in every English speaking country (various rugby codes, derivatives of rugby, etc), and "soccer" much more recognizable than "association football" in every variety of English -- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 05:49, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.