Talk:Setophaga

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Yellow-rumped Warbler

Hi, I'm new here so I'm not sure how the talk/conversations work, but the way Yellow-rumped Warbler is on this page is confusing. That's to be expected as the AOS views yellow-rumped as a single species whereas IOC lists them as three species. Regardless, this page shouldn't have "Yellow-rumped Warbler" and "Myrtle Warbler" both listed as Setophaga coronata. I'm unsure how else this information could be organized until a better consensus is reached, but the current layout is confusing. PinyonKit (talk) 01:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Came to talk to say the same thing. I will look into a better way for this to be structured. Breaking off the yellow-rumped (sub)species into a separate category with a blurb noting the differences between sources might work. Or even just listing both names (as a species and subspecies, with AOS/IOC in brackets) could help.

Atlashrike (talk) 03:19, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Aa77zz: You were working IOC naming issues. What do you think? - UtherSRG (talk) 11:11, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look. This mess has been discussed before here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Birds/Archive_75#Yellow_warbler

The problem is that IOC 15.1 splits Setophaga petechia into 2 species while Clements (October 2024) does not. The difference should be resolved very soon when the new combined list, Avilist, is published (perhaps next month? - the list was originally promised for early 2025 - then May was mentioned) - we don't know whether Avilist will follow the IOC or Clements for this species. Over the last couple of years many changes have been made to align the 3 major lists: IOC, Clements/eBird and BirdLife/IUCN. A list of the remaining difference between the IOC and Clements is available as an Excel file from the IOC site here: https://www.worldbirdnames.org/IOC%20v15-1%20v%20Clements%202024.xlsx -Aa77zz (talk) 12:57, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agh. Hopefully the list comes out soon. Thanks for the insight & the spreadsheet, super neat.

Atlashrike (talk) 16:00, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Aa77zz @Atlashrike - I emailed the IOC about this a little while ago; they replied "Although IOC has agreed to follow AviList, we are taking this at a slow pace and may not fully align with AviList from the very beginning. It will take time"; they intend to keep several of their splits separate, as they consider the grounds for splitting are good, in the hope that the AviList will eventually come round to their point of view. Although they didn't mention Setophaga specifically (a couple they did mention are Sandwich/Cabot's Terns, and Inca/Green Jays, two prominent cases where Clements is still stuck in the dark ages), I suspect this will apply to the Setophaga splits too: I reckon we should go ahead with the splits here per IOC again in the expectation that IOC will retain them and AviList will follow suit eventually. - MPF (talk) 00:59, 28 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@MPF and Atlashrike: There is a post on the BirdForum website here announcing that the Avilist website will open on 10 June 2025. We'll have to wait and see whether the lists are fully aligned. The latest IOC list is 15.1 but NACC proposal 2025-D-3 available here. p 18 states that IOC 15.2 will be the final version. - Aa77zz (talk) 16:33, 28 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Laughs quietly at the phrase final version - UtherSRG (talk) 17:18, 28 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@UtherSRG 😂😂😂 - MPF (talk) 17:27, 28 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Aa77zz is there anything from NACC (or SACC) to suggest that they will be making any further changes to align with IOC on things like Setophaga and the Thalasseus and Cyanocorax examples I mentioned above? Or are they considering their list immutable? - MPF (talk) 17:26, 28 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]