Talk:Sam Vaknin

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Problems with verifiability and original research in this article

This is a BLP article and needs to be held to the highest standards. I have pointed out that there are problems with verifiability and original research in the criticism section, but the tags have been deleted. I have restored them because the problems have not been addressed. Here are the specific difficulties.

• Criticisms had been made that Vaknin's work on narcissism lacks academic credibility- this needs a citation
• "Vaknin responds with a long bibliography of consulted academic works and cited references to Vaknin's work from publications by academics. He also lists testimonials of his work. None of this is supported in the references given.
• Vaknin's work is acknowledged and respected by academics in the field although Vaknin's work can still be criticized for lack of inline references to other works.Needs a citation for this claim.

I doubt any citation will be forthcoming. A Google Scholar search would indicate that Mr. Vaknin's cornerstone work "Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited" has been cited 44 times. Only three of these citations are from peer-reviewed psychological or psychiatric journals, and each of these citations have received fewer than 5 citations each. Unfortunately, the only citation I can make (other than inviting readers to review the Google Scholar search) would be to my own blog. :-)

• For example he claims to have originated the expression narcissistic supply but it was first mentioned by Otto Fenichel in 1938 and by others since then. It is not possible to delineate and separate Vaknin's original ideas from the ideas of other academics which he has used. This is obvious original research. A reference is needed making this point about Vaknin, not a 1938 reference in which the point an editor wants to make is proved.

--Slp1 (talk) 19:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I really wish you had looked into this more carefully before writing chapter and verse about this. You just had to dig deeper. I can quite easily refute your points with the many available sources. But obviously you want chapter and verse back so expect a reply probably significantly longer than your lengthy post in a day or two. --Penbat (talk) 19:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

That's great if you have reliable sources for these points. That's all I am asking for. And you don't need to respond in detail here, unless you really want to, since the point is to fix the article. I am sure that you know that these need to be high quality sources that make the specific points written, not sources that corroborate the argument. Otherwise it is original research. For example, you need a reliable source pointing out the issue with Fenichel and Vaknin and the terminology, and a web discussions aren't enough. BTW, it is a bit of an assumption to say that I haven't dug deeper, and in fact the assumption is quite incorrect. I looked for something to support this specific point and didn't find anything. Hopefully you know better where to look. --Slp1 (talk) 19:39, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

If you had just looked yourself more carefully you would have probably found the supporting citations yourself. Grrrr. Anyway give me a day or so.--Penbat (talk) 19:52, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Please read what I said. I looked for them and I could not find them. I will certainly give you a day or two, however.--Slp1 (talk) 19:59, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

References

Wikipedia section

I've tagged the Wikipedia section as lacking in 3rd party sources. There's no indication that anyone beyond the subject finds his writings on this topic interesting. If no 3rd party sources can be found in a reasonable time I'll delete the material. The subject has opinions on many topics, but if no independent source takes note of them neither should we.   Will Beback  talk  21:27, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

My recent edits

I've tried to tidy this a little: before and after.

I removed the WP section as self-referential. I also removed the education as the details were unclear. His cv said he was born in 1961 but started technical college in 1970, [1] and as this isn't explained or mentioned by secondary sources (that he went to college when he was nine), I just left it out. Also, the PhD certificate says he "majored" in physics, and people don't major when doing PhDs, so again I left it out because it was unclear. I also left out his description of his parents, which seemed a little unfair; even though they're unnamed, they and others know who they are, and they may still be living. Otherwise, I just tidied the writing, and added some details from secondary sources. I also added an infobox. SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 14:27, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Some things missing about Vaknin

Some things that I think are important to mention:

(1) From 2008 Vaknin was member of the Steering Committee for the Advancement of Healthcare in the Republic of Macedonia http://sc-healthreform.org.mk/

(2) Vaknin wrote more than 40 books. About 25 are listed in the library of congress. His book "requesting my loved one" short fiction in hebrew won prestigious prize in israel in 1997. See: http://www.ybook.co.il/htmls/author_728.aspx?c0=16326&bsp=13286 and in Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Sam-Vaknin/e/B000APLOFK/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1 http://www.amazon.com/Bakashah-me-ishah-ahuvah-Prozah-Hebrew/dp/9654483416/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

(3) Vaknin view of wikipedia had great influence. Simple google to discover more than 60 interviews with important global media, for example Tiempo Magazine (Spain), August 2009, Wire, Globo Brazil. See: http://www.scribd.com/doc/38401414/Wikipedia-Spanish Also Vaknin say that he corresponded with Jimbo Wales for months! Same about Vaknin opinion that Obama is narcissist: Vaknin was interview on every talk show in USA and his article quoted in 60,000 blogs and articles, including in print media (Whistleblower http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=97201 ). Not to mention this is strange.

(4) Sister of vaknin is Sima Gil-Vaknin, chief censor of Israeli Defense Force

(5) Not fair to mention Vaknin parents without giving them possibility to object and defend their actions

(6) In film I, Psychopath (which is film strongly against Vaknin) is confirm after research in Israel that Vaknin IQ was measure 185 and this is why he went to study in Technion (university in Haifa) when was 9 only.

(7) Years 1993-6 completely missing, best to look in his cv: http://samvak.tripod.com/cv.html

Zadanliran (Zoran) 77.28.14.186 (talk) 12:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Vaknin

Self-published works by Sam Vaknin have been used as sources for various articles related to narcissism. The issue of whether those should be regarded as reliable for Wikipedia purposes is being discussed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard‎#Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited by Sam Vaknin. Editors are invited to give their views.   Will Beback  talk  21:21, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

In the film he SCORED as a psychopath - ending that 18-point-myth

Some people seem to repeat the argument vaknin wasn't diagnosed as a psychopath in the documentary "I, Psychopath" and they argue, Vaknin only scored 18 where the cutoff for psychopathy was 30, which is not correct. In the film, they used a so called screening version of the PCL (PCL:SV), where the total score is not 40 but 24, and the psychopathy-cutoff thus is located at 18, not 30. So, with a result of 18 out of 24 (twenty-four, NOT forty!!!) he was a clinically diagnosed psychopath. In both PCL-versions, the cutoff for psychopathy is 3/4 of max score (18/24 and 30/40), so if we convert his 18 point result into the 40-point-scale we will finally get the 30 points which is the PCL-R cutoff for psychopathy. (Conversion is done by (18/24)*40=30). So it is right what's written there in the article, he MET the requirements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.81.171.124 (talk) 20:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Where did you get this "information" from??? It is NOT mentioned in the film "I, Psychopath" and both Vaknin and the hostile director Walker insist that he was administered the FULL test zadanliran (Zoran) 77.28.18.75 (talk) 13:08, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Vaknin's influential works in philosophy and physics

Vaknin's Google Scholar page: http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Yj7C8wOP-10J

Vaknin has a Ph.D. from California Miramar University (in philosophy). His dissertation (thesis) is titled "Time Asymmetry Revisited" and is available from UMI and the Library of Congress. His work on time-space influenced many young physicists. Recent example: “Upper Time Limit, Its Gradient Curvature, and Matter” by Eytan H. Suchard (Journal of Modern Physics and Applications 2014, 2014:5) http://scik.org/index.php/jmpa/article/view/1317/640

Vaknin maintains a repository of his philosophy essays here: http://philosophos.tripod.com Some of his work influenced other philosophers and thinkers. See this example where his work on definitions affected this group of computer scientists: http://www.scribd.com/doc/38546033/Enterprise-Architecture-Definition

This Wikipedia entry does not reflect a lot of the info available on the talk page for this entry. Few people know that they can find additional info on the talk page, so this is a great pity. 77.29.87.135 (talk) 12:09, 15 December 2013 (UTC) Zadaliran (Zoran)

Phd validity

Sam Vaknin clearly states on film at the end of 'I, psychopath' ... "the Phd was aquired in a diploma mill, diploma mill in the United States means a place where you buy your degrees. So it's a diploma mill, not a real Phd". With this in mind the section mentioning his Phd work should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.215.244.101 (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I believe that it was a valid PhD but anyway whether it was or wasnt a valid PhD is incidental. Vaknin produced a credible body of work on chronons (see Chronon#Work_by_Vaknin) which was substantively referenced as being an important and significant body of work by Suchard in his work (see Chronon#Work_by_Suchard) laying out the latest thinking on chronons. Suchard himself refers to Vaknins work as being PhD work. Vaknin also includes the PhD on his CV (see http://samvak.tripod.com/cv.html ). Here he says "The rumour that I had obtained my degree from a diploma mill is maliciously (and libellously) false......" http://samvak.tripod.com/rebuttal.html . --Penbat (talk) 16:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I do not agree that it is incidental whether or not his PhD is valid, seeing as the page states that his work on chronons was a PhD thesis. It is misleading to include this work under such an introduction. I see the references to Vaknin and Suchard's work have been removed from the Chronons page for good reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.53.18 (talk) 13:07, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Vaknin has a Ph.D. from California Miramar University (in philosophy). His dissertation (thesis) is titled "Time Asymmetry Revisited" and is available from UMI and the Library of Congress. See: California Miramar University, available on Microfiche in UMI and from the Library of Congress http://lccn.loc.gov/85133690 77.28.20.77 (talk) 11:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC) Zadanliran (Zoran) 12:35, 05 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this should be subjected to more scrutiny. The article states that the dissertation was written in 1982. But the university cited appears to have been founded in 2005. — Preceding unsigned comment added by O5o7 (talk • contribs) 09:48, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

It appears that nobody has ever verified the validity of the PhD thesis. Nearly nowhere is this thesis even referenced – barring Suchard, whose work (e.g. 1806.05244 on arXiv) lacks all rigor and is equally solitary. The Library of Congress does list Vaknin's paper as a dissertation thesis, but is this seriously a strong enough basis for Wikipedia to state the PhD as fact? ... If this listing is the strongest evidence, one should write exactly that. --2A02:8071:195:2C00:0:0:0:52 (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

In fact, the criticism at the top of this section from 2014 already says it all. For convenience, here is the video recording of Vaknin admitting to the PhD being bought at a diploma mill (though maintaining that it is a technically valid PhD): YouTube. In light of this, the section in the article is completely untenable.--2A02:8071:195:2C00:0:0:0:52 (talk) 19:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Since when is an obscure and controversial documentary film a source for Wikipedia?

As to your vandlism: Vaknin and the director of "I, Psychopath", Ian Walker, are avowed enemies, as the documentary makes abundantly clear. Vaknin and Walker are having numerous aggressive fights on camera! Vaknin and others pointed out repeatedly that the segment you are referring to was added AFTER the film was first released and involves malicious editing of Vaknin's words.

Vaknin was actually calling attention to the swindlers who run diploma mills!

Walker, the hostile and Vaknin-hater "director", took Vaknin's words out of context to create the impression that Vaknin was referring to his own PhD which Vaknin denies even in that segment!

Vaknin says clearly and repeatedly: "I have a PhD, I worked 2 years for it, there was a campus, my doctoral dissertation was peer reviewed, it is available in the Library of Congress" and so on. The concluding sentence in this fake segment is Vaknin's statement about diploma mills PhDs IN GENERAL - NOT about Vaknin's PhD in particular!! It was clearly cut (the film "jumps" suddenly) and added to create a false impression!

It is very clear when you watch it: The director cut an unrelated sentence into the film maliciously to give a false impression.

This "I, Psychopath" an old canard that keeps creeping up as you would have seen had you bothered to read this page thoroughly and had you done minimal research online.

What you did to the article was total vandalism. Zadanliran (Zoran) 77.28.14.186 (talk) 12:35, 01 March 2021 (UTC)

Independent coverage of Cold Therapy?

Has there been any independent writing (ideally, a study of effectiveness) about Cold Therapy? I'm thinking we should either mention it in the article or mention the absence of it. —C.Fred (talk) 19:30, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Dead links in References

Footnotes [12] and [13] are dead. The links are below, respectively:

http://www.analyst-network.com/profile.php?user_id=79

https://www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/941

Furthermore, I could find no archived versions of either of these pages or anything suggesting that the website "analyst-network.com" has ever existed. 170.52.76.106 (talk) 01:56, 3 January 2023 (UTC)