Talk:Patrick Ruthven, 1st Earl of Forth

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Untitled

Is he better known as the Earl of Forth or the Earl of Brentford? Mackensen (talk) 22:27, 28 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. In the First English Civil War which uses text from 1911 he is known as "Forth" until he was granted "Brentford".

So I guess he and his contemporaries would have considered the Earl of Brentford a promotion. However I am aware of the old Scottish jest that every Scot who crosses the boarder increases the average IQ of both countries ;) --Philip Baird Shearer 17:06, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestry

The Swedish Wikipedia states: "Föräldrar (parents) William Ruthven och (and) Katherine Stewart" 213.222.190.111 (talk) 12:45, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Will

The article currently reads:

"Forth made his will on 9 May 1649 and in it left all his Swedish lands to his son Alexander's widow, Anna Erasma Klencke, and to his son by the same marriage (Jane Henderson), who was also called Patrick. These lands were Brevik (Jönköping Län). To his surviving wife, Clara Berner and their son Patrick, he donated Ljungbyholm in Kalmar Län (Sweden) and Sackendorf (Mecklenburg). His other goods in Scotland he left to Clara Berner. Clara and his daughter-in-law Anna Klence fought protracted disputes over the Småland lands, even until 1669, and these involved royal intervention. The executors to his will were General James King (taking care of the Swedish side) and Jakob Pringle of Huitbank (of the Scottish side)."

This is incredibly confusing and I have no idea what it's trying to say. Apart from anything else, his titles became extinct on his death, and so he cannot have had any surviving sons. And it seems to be claiming that he had sons called Patrick both by his first wife and by his second wife, which seems unlikely (though I admit not impossible). Proteus (Talk) 16:40, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed - I'm working my way through the article as I rewrite it, and haven't come to this bit yet. Most of this content is copied from a blogspot, and I'll probably take most of it out.

Also, FYI, most modern histories of the Civil War use "Ruthven", rather than "Forth" or "Brentford" (or even "Duke of Kirchberg") - this seems to be the standard convention, on the basis of consistency and avoiding confusion for general readers. This applies the other way eg Wellington throughout, versus Arthur Wellesley. Robinvp11 (talk) 21:57, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]