Talk:Muhammad Ali (writer)

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Qadianism

Anybody that gives any honorable status to Mirza Qadiani whether as prophet, nabi, or mujadid, messiah, mahdi, etc, is follower of Qadianism. You cannot believe in Mirza Qadiani in any shape or form and be a Muslim. The Lahoris are also followers of Qadianism.

Siddiqui 07:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That may or may not be the case. From a Wikipedia standpoint it is immaterial - Its one point of view. You are free to perpetuate it, however not at the expense of opposing povs. Your point of view receives full attention and time in all articles related to Ahmedism/Qadianism. It it only fair that the opposing point of view be given as much importance.Nazli 08:02, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is fair is that Muslim view about Qadianese should also be presented, especially that ALL sects of mainstream muslims consider ALL forms of Qadianese as non-Muslims. However any attempt to say that is promptly removed. The historical case in Supreme Court of Pakistan in 1974 is a proof beyond any shadow of doubt about this concensus.

The same way ALL Indian Nationalist (Hindu, Sikh, Muslims) consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be a British agent and a traitor to India. All references to this fact is also prompty removed. Hassanfarooqi 17:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Obviuosly you have not been reading the articles on Ahmadiyya movement and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. It is clearly mentioned that Ahmadis are considered non muslims and heretics. The legal position in Pakistan is also clearly stated. The allegation against Mirza Ghulam Ahamd regarding being a British Agent as well as numerous other criticims are also present. Ofcourse as per Wikipedia policies to maintain NPOV the other POV is also presented and any unsubstantiated statements are removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sufaid (talk • contribs) 06:15, 17 March 2007 (UTC). Sufaid 06:15, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of the term Qadianism

A significant proportion of Muslims consider the Ahmadiyya movement to be outside the fold of Islam. It would be inappropriate for an encyclopedia article not to mention this fact. Nazli 02:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is incorrect. All mainstream Muslims (Athna-Ashri Shias, Ismaili-Shias, Barelvi Sunnies, Deobandi Sunnies, Ahl-Hadith, Salafi etc) consider all followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (Qadiani or Lahori) as non-Muslims. Any attempt to say otherwise is purely their own fabrication. Hassanfarooqi 17:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are Sunni scholars who consider Shias infidels. There are Ithna Asheri Shia scholars who consider Ismailis infidels. And on it goes. This is not the place to discuss petty sectarian squabbles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.85.54 (talk) 04:15, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Ahmad.png

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BetacommandBot 19:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 30 January 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It was proposed in this section that Muhammad Ali (writer) be renamed and moved to Maulana Muhammad Ali.

result:
No consensus seen in survey below. Closure requested at WP:CR (permalink). As is usual for a no-consensus outcome, editors can strengthen their rationales, discover new ones, and try again in a few months to garner consensus for a title change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 04:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Move logs: source title · target title

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Muhammad Ali (writer) → Maulana Muhammad Ali – WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NATDIS Subject is commonly referred to as "Maulana Muhammad Ali" by various sources, even outside those published by Ahmadiyya organizations:

https://books.google.be/books?id=j1AEEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA64
https://books.google.be/books?id=GOv7EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA60
https://books.google.be/books?id=OPuMAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA38
https://books.google.be/books?id=Sw9YDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT48
https://books.google.be/books?id=Lv3sEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA151
https://books.google.be/books?id=DsZKEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA96 ―Howard • 🌽³³ 19:14, 30 January 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Sophisticatedevening ^(talk) 00:26, 14 February 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. ASUKITE 19:12, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. It's just an honorific and we don't use those in article titles. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:16, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I believe this meets the exception of being so commonly attached to a name that the name is rarely found in English-language reliable sources without it per MOS:HONORIFIC. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 09:20, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Correction: the relevant link should be MOS:PREFIX ―Howard • 🌽³³ 09:22, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Other sources:

―Howard • 🌽³³ 09:54, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Pakistan, WikiProject Biography/Science and academia, and WikiProject Islam have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 19:12, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relevant example: Mahatma Gandhi ASUKITE 19:12, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The MOS:PREFIX argument is not convincing for me because if you click on the Authority control links at the bottom of the article, the honorific is mostly not included. I don't care much for the parenthetical disambiguator and would prefer Muhammad Ali (Maulana) as more recognizable and precise. "Muhammad Ali (writer)" should then redirect to Muhammad Ali (disambiguation)#Literature. DrKay (talk) 09:11, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
An unnecessary usage of parentheses. Maulana Muhammad Ali is shorter, more recognizable and has been repeatedly used by reliable sources. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 13:39, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
But we shouldn't use an honorific prefix just for disambiguation and to avoid including parenthesis punctuation marks. If included in parentheses, "maulana" should be in lowercase, not uppercase. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:13, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. The OP has provided solid evidence that Maulana is mostly prefixed before the name in sources, sufficiently so that it would be unusual not to do so, as per Mother Theresa etc, so it seems a good form of WP:NATURALDIS here. — Amakuru (talk) 16:13, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- You could say the same about Sir Winston Churchill (or, indeed, the majority of other people who have been knighted). Yet we don't ever use their titles as disambiguation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:30, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Why would we need to disambiguate Winston Churchill with anything? Muhammad Ali by itself is too common of a name but "Maulana Muhammad Ali" is by far the most regular way to refer to the Ahmadi writer. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 00:39, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  You're missing the point. We don't do it even if we do need to disambiguate knights. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:22, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.