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Split

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I think we should split the list into two: international denominational fellowships (such as the Anglican Communion) listing denominational families, and national denominations (such as the Church of England), because the present character of this list is confusing and misleading, by mixing two different datas.--Leonardo Alves 16:20, 13 August 2007

You're probably right. Also, unless there is a good citation, the hashes (#) should be replaced with asterixs (*), because it currently assumes that number 15, say, is actually the 15th largest which is very unlikely true. Colin MacLaurin 11:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the merger with List of Christian denominations by number of members - I think the topic is broad and deserves its own article.Ernio48 (talk) 22:50, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is a also a proposal of rather merging it with List of Christian denominations by number of members Chicbyaccident (talk) 10:57, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR (talk) 02:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For example, neither...

...are about national churches or denominations —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlaude (talk • contribs)
I agree that List of largest churches in the world should probably be renamed-- and that church has no apparent primary meaning-- none the less this article would still be improved by the renaming to be more clear.
List of the largest churches in Australia is about congregations not what List of the largest Protestant churches of the world is about.
More examples not about national churches or denominations:
In the first two of those, the context of the word in the title makes it clear that a building is meant, unlike in the case of the article we're currently considering. List of churches currently redirects to list of tallest churches in the world, which is certainly wrong, don't you think? Andrewa (talk) 01:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes-- I agree-- which is why this article needs words in the title to makes what is meant. As you point out, this article title does not make the meaning clear. --Carlaude (talk) 07:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree... I think while church may be ambiguous, if I were asked what is the largest church in Australia I'd know that they meant in terms of numbers of people, not of the building, without further context being required. Andrewa (talk) 01:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So Andrewa, we agree "church" by itself is ambiguous, and agree that "church" is used in at least three different ways in Wikipedia lists, but you think that the name "List of the largest Protestant churches of the world" for largest denomanations is somehow not-ambiguous... or is it ambiguous to you??--Carlaude (talk) 14:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agree that church is ambiguous, and has these different context-dependent meanings (at least). Disagree that List of the largest Protestant churches of the world is ambiguous in terms of WP:NC. Andrewa (talk) 16:05, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Article titles give the reader an idea of what they can expect within an article. A reader may have found your article with a search, with Recent Changes or accidentally, or in some other way that robs him of the context, so do him a favor and name your articles precisely.
If a word or phrase is ambiguous, and an article concerns only one of the meanings of that word or phrase, it should usually be titled with something more precise than just that word or phrase (unless it is unlikely that the related usages deserve their own article). For example, use Apollo program, Nirvana (band), Smoking pipe; rather than simply Apollo, Nirvana, Pipe.
This article requires precision. Articles should be List of the largest Protestant church bodies in the world and List of the largest Protestant church buildings in the world --Carlaude (talk) 00:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Requested move 24 April 2017

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved.(non-admin closure) Winged Blades Godric 09:36, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]


List of the largest Protestant denominations → List of Protestant denominationsList of Protestant denominations – There were in fact no such article previously - if it would, it should most neutrally be ordered after size; thus this move makes sense from both sides. Conclusion: size is the least problematic way of sorting and should thus be employed per default. Compare also equivalent articles in Category:Lists of Christian denominations. Chicbyaccident (talk) 10:44, 24 April 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. Primefac (talk) 14:26, 3 May 2017 (UTC) --Likely a no consensus, but give it another loop — Andy W. (talk) 05:41, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by "previous article"? StAnselm (talk) 11:30, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
List of Protestant denominations. Chicbyaccident (talk) 11:57, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you will have to provide way more attractive arguments than that in order to propose Wikipedia having to maintain two different Lists of Protestant denominations - one sorted by size, the other by... your personal choice? It is equally hard to grasp why the minimum size limit applied to the two lists should be different. Chicbyaccident (talk) 15:18, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, a denomination is the Church of England, or the Church of God (Anderson, Indiana). In this list, we have international bodies and worldwide organizations, that in no way are denominations. The title is wrong. I'm in favor of restoring the original title, that was "List of the largest Protestant bodies".Ernio48 (talk) 17:16, 28 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think List of the largest Protestant bodies is probably the best title, but that is not the original title, as you yourself know - you moved it there last year, and the move was reverted. The original title had "churches" but that isn't as good since there is potential confusion with church buildings. StAnselm (talk) 21:25, 28 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As you will notice in Category:Lists of Christian denominations, "denomination" is the term in concensus for what is expressed here. The term "body" doesn't make anything less vague here. Chicbyaccident (talk) 14:43, 3 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That is a legitimate discussion, although I am not sure it is relevant here. A minimum size for listing is a fair aim. That is partly what the move proposal implicates and thus brings a solution to - in addition to the other problematic issue of how to sort. Conclusion: size is the least problematic way of sorting and should thus be employed per default. Chicbyaccident (talk) 14:37, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Article incomplete?

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How? Is anybody aware of any church outside this list that falls in the very same size range?Ernio48 (talk) 12:28, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fake numbers from unreliable sources

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The number of members reported for the listed Chinese house church networks are fake. I hope someome will realize that Christianity Today and the website biblereadingproject.com are non-neutral and non-reliable sources which literally invent numbers. Most of those church networks in China have from few thousands to few million adherents.--5.89.223.246 (talk) 05:01, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ecumenism and NPOV

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I just want to note that different people prefer to draw boundaries in particular places for various ideological reasons. It seems odd to have the World Evangelical Alliance mentioned here but not the World Council of Churches. The scope of this article is Protestant, but it feels arbitrary and raises WP:POVFORK questions for me. I'm not sure the best resolution, but wanted to at least note the issue. Daask (talk) 14:50, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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Emblems

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Is there really a need to show the emblems here? Seems to be scraping the surface of WP:NFCC8. --Min☠︎rax«¦talk¦» 06:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I too have been wondering if they are proper. I thought that such logos/emblems could be used only in the subject's main article. Indyguy (talk) 14:30, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair use files can be used in multiple articles provided that there is a valid rationale for its use. According to WP:NFLISTS, it is better to redirect the reader to the article instead of repeating the use of the file. @Dirkwillems: Please remove the files and their respective FUR. --Min☠︎rax«¦talk¦» 01:04, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Minorax I wouldn't mind if the emblem columns were deleted. I didn't put them there, I just didn't like how sparse they were so I filled in what I could. Dirkwillems (talk) 01:19, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Largest Protestant Communion

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SeminarianJohn, a few days ago you removed the information that the World Communion of Reformed Churches (WCRC) is the largest Protestant communion. I would like to discuss this subject here, to give other editors the opportunity to participate in the discussion.

Sources

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I understand that several Anglican sources report that the Anglican Communion (AC) is the largest Protestant communion in the world and the third largest Christian communion, after the Roman Catholic and Chalcedonian Orthodox Churches. [3] [4] [5]

However, there are also Reformed sources that report that the WCRC is the largest Protestant communion and the third largest Christian communion in the world, after the Roman Catholic and Chalcedonian Orthodox Churches. [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]

Therefore, there are sources to classify either of the two as the largest Protestant communion.

Sum of statistics

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Previously, I reported that the sum of the updated statistics of WCRC member churches was greater than the sum of the number of members of the AC provinces.

According to the current table in the WCRC article, if the most recent statistics are considered, the result is 101 million for WCRC full members (website list 100 milion in 2017 [11] página 7) and 140 million when associate and affiliate members are included. China Christian Council (CCC) os a associate member, alone haved 38 milion members in 2018 [12]. By 2024, 40 million members were reported of CCC [13].

The table we are updating together in the AC article adds up to 100 million (including statistics that are 25 years out of date for some of the largest denominations).

You previously said that the self-reported number of the communion should be considered and not the result of adding up the denominational statistics. Well, I will now consider each point.

Self-reported numbers

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The WCRC was reported having 100 million members in 2017 (probably not including associate and affiliate members) [14] (página 7). This number is still on the list of members today, because no new general assembly has taken place since then. The next assembly will be held in October 2025, when the figures should be updated.

The AC, on the other hand, reports having 85 million members on its website.[15] the same number is reported by GAFCON [16].

If we consider the self-reported numbers, the WCRC is larger.

Membership criteria

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In addition, the statistics of Reformed churches cannot be directly compared with Anglican churches.

Anglican churches count as members all people who were once baptized by them, even if they no longer attend church, have changed churches, left the religion, etc. For this reason, the numbers reported by Anglican churches are generally higher than those reported in national censuses, which ask about people's religious identity. In other words, fewer people consider themselves Anglicans today than are reported number by Anglican churches.

Example: In Brazil, the Anglican Episcopal Church of Brazil reported having 120,000 members in 2006 [17]. However, an independent study, carried out in 2009, published in 2012, reported that only 0.01% of the Brazilian population was Anglican in 2009, which corresponded, in that year, to 19,400 Anglicans [18] (page 7). This church does not even appear in the 2010 Brazilian Census, being grouped into "other Protestants" (which in that year also included Mennonites, Continental Reformed, Quakers, Plymount Brothers, among other groups), which together totaled just 30,666 members [19] (page 144).

In United Kingdom, Church of England claims 25-26 million members[20], of whom only 1 million are active members [21]. However, an independent study published in 2012 reported that only 12% of the UK population, or 7,975,200, identified as members of the church. [22]

The Anglican Church of Australia, published its most recent statistics in 2001. In that year, it reported having 4,865,328 members [23]. However, the 2021 Australian Census found only 2,495,818 Anglicans [24]

The Anglican Church in Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia, reports on its website 459,711 members (the 2013 Census figure) [25]. However, the 2023 New Zealand Census reported only 245,301 Anglicans [26] .

On the other hand, Reformed churches only count "active members" as members. People who were baptized and stopped attending church are excluded from the membership rolls. Many of them, however, continue to identify with the church. For this reason, in the case of Reformed churches, the number of people who declare themselves to be members of these churches in censuses and independent surveys is higher than that reported by the churches themselves.

Example: The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) reported 1 million members in 2024 [27]. The Pew Research Center, however, reported that in that year, 0.8% of the United States population identified as affiliated with Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) [28], which corresponded at the time to about 2,720,880 people.

The same happens in Scotland. In the 2022 census, 20.4% of the Scottish population, or 1,108,796 adherents, identified the Church of Scotland as their religious identity [29]. In 2021, however, the Church of Scotland itself reported just 283,600 members [30] (page 39).

The Uniting Church in Australia claimed 243,000 members in 2018 [31]. In the 2021 Australian Census, 673,260 people identified as this denomination [32]

The Protestant Church of the Netherlands claimed to have around 1,400,000 million members in 2024, or 7% of the country's population [33]. In the same year, however, 14% of the population of the Netherlands (2,091,600 people in that year) identified with this church [34]

The United Church of Canada reported having 325,315 members in 2023.[35] In the 2021 Canada Census, 1,214,185 people (3.3% of Canada's population) identified themselves as members of the denomination [36]

The Presbyterian Church of Canada reported having 79,961 members in 2019 [37]. The 2021 Canadian Census recorded 301,400 Presbyterians (0.8% of the population). [38]

The Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand reported having 18,348 members in 2023 [39]. In the same year, the New Zealand Census reported 202,309 Presbyterians in the country [40]

The Presbyterian Church in Ireland claimed just 200,000 members in 2024 [41]. However, the Northern Ireland Census reported 316,103 Presbyterians in 2021 [42]. The Republic of Ireland Census found another 23,597 Presbyterians in 2022 [43].

In other words, if the number of people baptized in Reformed churches were counted as members, as Anglican churches do, or even if only people who still identify with these churches were counted, the number of WCRC members would increase more of 5 million people, just with 8 denominations I mentioned.

As for the Anglican Communion, if it counted only active members, it would have about 60 million members, as listed in the article about it.

Therefore, if the churches of both communions used the same criteria to count members, both by the criterion of active members and by the criterion of baptized members, the WCRC would be larger.

Conclusion

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There are sources that say that the Anglican Communion (AC) is the largest Protestant communion, just as the World Communion of Reformed Churches (WCRC) is the largest Protestant communion.

However, the WCRC is larger than the AC in:

a) self-reported membership on its websites (WCRC 100 milion x AC 85 milion);

b) active membership of its member denominations (WCRC 100 milion x AC 60 milion);

c) number of baptized members or people who identify with its member denominations (WCRC 105 milion or 145 milion x AC 101 milion);

d) sum of the most recent membership statistics of its member denominations (WCRC 140 milion x AC 101 milion);

Therefore, by any criterion that is analyzed, the WCRC is larger than the AC.

Therefore, I believe it is appropriate, in all articles, to update the information about WCRC is now the largest Protestant communion. Daniel Silva Mendanha (talk) 01:49, 18 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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