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Deletion of non-articled entries onto the list.

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This list is not a normal stand-alone list, but a fork from the main Hamilton Academy space. We tell editors that we should not create articles that are stubs, and add them with references to lists. Before any deletion should be done a consensus here must be met, as the prior deletion was to individuals that had been referenced. Davidstewartharvey (talk) 06:27, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You may be interested in reading Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Common selection criteria. Note that "common selection criteria" does not mean "only possible or acceptable selection criteria". Editors should come up with a set of selection criteria for this list. The chosen criteria should be relevant and appropriate for the subject, and the decision should be made by consensus. WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:02, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note that WP:NNC may be helpful to frame discussions here. Jclemens (talk) 08:11, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If the list criteria, specified on the list page, is of all notable people, then only blue-linked entries should be added. In general, most academic institutions only include individuals with a stand alone page. - Enos733 (talk) 19:27, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No, if the list criteria is "notable", that means blue links (article exists), red links (article could exist, but nobody has created it yet), and no links (article could exist, but nobody added link formatting to the entry).
Very few lists actually use a blue-links-only standard, and they tend to do this because otherwise the list would have many thousands of entries. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:55, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As per the quoted guidelines, it is down to editors to reach a consensus. Some lists have had this consensus, for example List of clothing and footwear shops in the United Kingdom where current was decided to only be blue linked articles, as editors thought it was impossible to keep up to date and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. However, the defunct was decided to be kept, as it was referenced and is only going to be added to. I opened the discussion as an editor decided without agreeing a consensus. I myself think if an entry is on this list, it should be at least have one decent reference, however we have some dubious ones like prison officer! Davidstewartharvey (talk) 06:33, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What's dubious about naming the head of a large government agency? He's a prison governor, not a lowly guard. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:07, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I was being flippant, however I would question why would a governor be notable in real life, let alone Wikipedia. How many governors can you name? Davidstewartharvey (talk) 18:39, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I can name as many prison wardens (as we call them in the US) as I can name mayors of London. Notability doesn't come from being important; it comes from getting attention in the press. The question here is whether we want a notability standard (at all), and if so, whether this person happens to be notable. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In the UK, prison governors are rarely seen or heard from, unless there is a major issue at a prison. We are more likely to see or hear from the Head of the Prison service, the minister for prisons (I think we still have a junior minister for that) or the guy at the prison officers union who is on tv regularly. Davidstewartharvey (talk) 06:05, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I believe there are many lists of academic institutions and organizations that only contain blue-links, List of University of California, Berkeley alumni in business, List of Sigma Alpha Epsilon members, Garfield High School (New Jersey)#Notable_alumni, Luther College (Iowa)#Notable_alumni. In the rare case where I see a red link on an list of alumni or members, it is frequently spam. - Enos733 (talk) 04:35, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The question is: What do we think is the best choice here? WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:35, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thats the question being asked here - to reach a consensus on what we should follow here. Looking at a lot of the non articled entries they are probably notable in the real world (William Anderson - President of the Australian Association of Psychology and Philosophy) but maybe not enough to write an article in Wikipedia terms. Take Malcolm Gavin, he has been here for a whole as not linked to an article. It has taken me on and off for several years to research him, mainly due to more stuff being digitalised. Davidstewartharvey (talk) 06:13, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Are we willing to set a standard of editors' belief that someone is probably important in the real world? That would be wider than WP:ANYBIO or other notability-related standards, but it wouldn't accept every person who attended the school (or even most of them). WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:36, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Trying to agree a concensus on a lot of policies on wikipedia is sometimes impossible - WP:GEOLAND RFC of two years ago where a large portion of editors agreed it is wrong but couldn't agree what time change it to so stayed the same! And we have guidelines stating we should have primary articles if one article is of greater importance than others of the same name, when it's by concensus on what the primary should be, which can lead to conjecture and if you use Britannica they use a fitm if disambiguation page and nothing us primary! I think trying to agree a policy on "real world notability" is going to be impossible. Davidstewartharvey (talk) 15:13, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have to agree a policy on "real world notability". (On wiki, I try to avoid using the word notability to mean anything other than the Wikipedia:Notability standards.) We just have to agree whether to accept potentially non-notable names for this list, with case-by-case discussions. I think it's reasonable for us to do so. Of course Wikipedia has WP:No firm rules, but we don't have any rules saying what's preferable. We can choose to do so or choose not to do so, based on our own, subjective beliefs about what's best.
I would like to see a rule that says no living person should be added without an Wikipedia:Inline citation to a reliable source. I think that's a fairly minimal standard. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:16, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is a fascinating discussion. The question of when there are too many redlinks in a list seems to me to be a general problem. On the topic here, there are hundreds or thousands of graduates of an educational institution per year. How does one determine who to add to a list (if it is determined to be notable). It seems to me that ensuring entries are blue is about the only way to be sure. If one says that redlinks are appropriate then there would be many lists which are notable but contain a lot of redlinks. How many are too many? I would say more than 50% is always too many. Up to 25% is probably ok, 25-50% is debatable. JMWt (talk) 08:45, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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