Talk:List of genocides

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Edit request 31 March 2025

Description of suggested change: Delete the entire line sourcing the VOC for the deaths of uyghurs in China as it is unanimously recognized as an unreliable source per: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_329#Victims_of_Communism_Memorial_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_362#victimsofcommunism.org

Diff:

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*5–10% of detained Uyghurs estimated to die per year, according to the [[Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation]].

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Vreee (talk) 21:29, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Support removal - It should also be noted that it's Voice of America that is citing the guy from VoC. JasonMacker (talk) 23:08, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Support - while the citation is to a source that can be used, they are quoting the VOCMF, which is highly dubious in their assessments, considering previously claims made with numbers they've presented in other cases. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 14:43, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 April 2025

The most recent death toll in Gaza is 62,614+ . Per the same source, the death toll in the Occupied West Bank is 905+ people, including at least 181 children.

The Lancet Medical Journal predicts that Gaza's death toll is 40% higher than these official numbers.

There are 11,000 Palestinians missing and presumed dead, as per the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS).

70% of those killed in Gaza are women and children, as per the UN's Human Rights Office. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn5wel11pgdo Carabear11 (talk) 22:05, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

The number has been updated with the most recent reported snapshot from the UN OCHA. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 11:12, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Sources statements falsely represented

Under the Gaza Genocide section there seems to be some serious misrepresentations of what these groups have said:

Quoting the source from the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights:

"Grave violations committed by Israel against Palestinians in the aftermath of 7 October, particularly in Gaza, POINT TO A GENOCIDE IN THE MAKING"

The source for Human Rights Watch said:

"...therefore these acts MAY AMOUNT TO THE CRIME OF GENOCIDE"

I'll assume good intent but somehow a "genocide in the making" and "may amount to genocide", have been wrongly written into the article as "Israel has committed genocide".  

This needs to be fixed. Bob drobbs (talk) 03:51, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Cdjp1 If you're going to edit the article to try to maintain the claim which says the UN HRC has said "Israel committed genocide", can you please provide a source which says that?

This seems to be misrepresentation of their report. And this article from AP News which makes that fact clear:

"the report “also concludes that Israel has carried out genocidal acts through the systematic destruction of sexual and reproductive health care facilities. The commission stopped short of accusing Israel of genocide..."[16] Bob drobbs (talk) 16:22, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Sort it at the main article, as you have been doing, and the result can be copied to here. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:01, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Why archive so frequently?

That is essentially my question. I hope I am not out of place asking this question here.

Why move topics so often/quickly all the time? I think it’s important to be able to see what is being discussed, especially for us lowly not-extended confirmed users who may want to know why decisions were made a certain way.

Idk if this is common policy, and I understand the importance of not letting talk pages overflow, but an empty talk page cannot be the goal either, can it? Slomo666 (talk) 20:02, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

Sections with no edits in the last 30 days are archived—blindlynx 02:37, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

A 30 day archiving filter is not uncommon, especially on active talk pages and talk pages in areas which can be controversial. The reasoning, as I understand it, is that discussions are likely to rather active in this areas, so if there has been no comment in the discussion for the 30 days, it's a good indicator the discussion is "dead" and unlikely to attract new contributors. Of course, if someone wants to re-start the discussion or start a similar discussion, they can do so by adding a new section in the active talk page, and link back to and refer to the previous discussion, this isn't uncommon for a variety of talk pages. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 09:21, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

"Silent Slaughter" Nigeria

Could someone review the recently added "Silent Slaughter" (Nigeria) entry? I notice we don't have a Wikipedia article on this and the sourcing seems somewhat weak to me.

Thanks, IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 20:37, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

The only academic source is Gregory Stanton's internship based org---which is fine---but we need more good sources—blindlynx 14:15, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

Pinging @Wikigrund, who added this content. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:17, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

I reverted the addition before seeing the talk here. I said that it needs to be taken to talk page as we need better sources calling it a genocide. As I stated in the edit summary, while Genocide Watch is a start, the only other two sources used that use the term genocide are a minor advocacy organisation who's raison d'etre is highlight this as a genocide, alongside a catholic news site that only uses the word genocide in quotation. We have it in the article Genocides in history (21st century) where it is a single sentence. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 09:15, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for pinging me.

From my notes, including some quotes:

• Kaduna Indigenous Union, Jonathan Asake, President of Southern Kaduna Peoples Union.
  (2021) Kaduna Indigenes Cry Out, Say Genocide Ongoing (Video)
• Dr. Richard Quinlan, PhD (Holocaust and Genocide Studies).
  “Can a genocide ever truly be “silent”? This certainly seems to be the case in Nigeria, where Christian communities have been targeted for systematic murder that constitutes genocide for over a decade. The greater tragedy is that these attacks have largely been ignored.” [...] “The killing of Christians in Nigeria is one of the greatest collective failures of the international community in recent decades; it is now imperative that nations of influence act to stop this protracted genocide.”
  (2024) Nigeria’s Christian Genocide
• Joseph Fidelis (Clinical psychologist, Founder and Director of Human Resource and Skills Acquisition for Trauma Healing), Nigeria.
  “It is not a clash, it is a slow genocide. To displace people from their ancestral homeland, deprive them of their livelihood and butcher them is a form of genocide.”
  (2021) Slow Genocide
• Dr. Ewelina U. Ochab (Law, Human Rights).
  Ochab, E.U., Alton, D.
  (2022). The Genocide in Nigeria—A Mirror Image of Darfur. In: State Responses to Crimes of Genocide. Rethinking Political Violence. Palgrave Macmillan, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-99162-3_6
• Testimony from Maiduguri on systematic persecution (killings, abductions, forced conversion), (2021) Testimony (Video, 57 views)
• Matthew Hassan Kukah, Phd (Philosophy, Peace Studies, Oriental & African Studies, Theology), Nigeria.
  (2020) It is Genocide Indeed
• Middle Belt Forum.
  "…to annihilate and dispossess the peoples of the Middle Belt and Southern Nigerians of their ancestral lands. [...] The Forum considers the position of the so-called conscience group as a deliberate falsehood that is aimed at misleading the unsuspecting public through foisting diversionary plot to draw the attention of the public away from the heinous genocide being perpetrated by Fulani herdsmen terrorists across the Middle Belt and other parts of the country in pursuit of the ‘Fulanisation’ agenda as earlier raised in the NCEF’s submission and observed also by other notable persons and groups.” [...] “For avoidance of doubt, we wish to inform Nigerians and the international community that the Middle Belt peoples are now victims of a conspiracy to subjugate them and disinherit them of their ancestral lands. We are calling on men and women of good conscience to spare no efforts in exposing the ongoing heinous crimes against humanity in a bid to unveil the dark spot of human conscience surrounding the massacres of Nigerians and destruction of communities in the Middle Belt Region and other parts of the country.”
  (2019) Article and (2018) Middle Belt Forum Declares Herdsmen Killings Ethnic Cleansing
• *Various Nigerian Organizations.
  "A statement signed by leaders of the group, Oba Oladipo Olaitan (Afenifere), Dr. Bitrus Pogu (Middle Belt Forum), Senator John Azuta-Mbata (Ohanaeze Ndigbo World-Wide), and Amb. Godknows Igali (PANDEF), noted that the ongoing killings in various parts of the country could best be described as genocide." “These terrorist killings wiping out entire families and villages hypocritically branded “farmers/herders clash” on the farmers’ land have become so commonplace that officials of the Nigerian State on each occurrence only indulge in comparative statistical analysis of the number of lives lost.” "The only crime of our people is being Nigerians with their ancestral land and its rich resources on which they live peacefully." “It has become undeniable that Nigeria is under siege by these well-coordinated, well-armed Fulani militias bringing with them kidnapping, murder, and chaos. Their activities are no longer random acts of violence; they are part of a deliberate strategy of territorial expansion and ethnic cleansing.” “To the people: Rise, stop mourning and lamentation; organise according to your respective cultural and indigenous ways of community defence, seek necessary capacity wherever possible and available.” (2025) SMBLF decries ‘coordinated massacre, genocide’ in North Central zone
• Emeka Umeagbalasi, Director of International Society for Civil Liberties and the Rule of Law (Intersociety) Nigeria, Human Rights and Democracy Campaigner.
  (2024) Jihadist Genocide of Christians In Nigeria Bloodiest In 2023
• Dr. Gregory Stanton, founding President of Genocide Watch and Chairman of the Alliance Against Genocide, (Prof. Justice, Law, and Society; Prof. Genocide Studies)
  Quotes: Dr. Gregory H. Stanton, chairman of Genocide Watch, said these attacks meet the definition of genocide: “It is the intentional destruction in whole or in part of a religious group.” “This is not a conflict. These Christian villagers – these farmers – have no conflict with the Fulani. The Fulani now arrive with truckloads of fighters, maybe a hundred of their fighters, and they simply massacre a Christian village. They leave the Muslim village nearby completely alone,” Stanton said. He also dismissed claims that that tribal difference and economic factors were the real drivers of the violence, noting that most genocides happen during civil or international conflicts. “Denial is part of every genocide; it starts at the beginning of it and usually goes on way after it,” he said.
  (2020) Nigeria facing ‘systematic, planned, calculated’ genocide of Christians
• Remigius Ihyula, Director of Justice and Peace Commission (JPC)
  (2023) Why Are We Not Hearing About the Mass Genocide in Nigeria?
• Remingius Ihyula: “It is Islamic jihad,” Father Ihyula says, noting that this is frequently how the perpetrators of the violence themselves characterize the aggression on Nigerian social media and radio. None of this is subtle, the two clergymen insist. Islamist extremists in the region speak openly of the strategy. “We live side by side with them; we hear them,” Father Ihyula says. … All these years, over a decade now, nobody has been arrested, nobody has been prosecuted.” It is jihad and genocide, he charges.” (2024) Nigerian bishop: Islamic jihad, not climate change, behind mass killing of Christians
• -Wilfrid Anagbe, researched the displacement situation in Benue State. “Bishop Anagbe said the intensity of the killings suggest an ethnic cleansing agenda because the Fulani herders are systematically killing the local population and occupying their territories. “The killings have a motive of religion behind them. The Fulani killers are Muslims and the conquering of territory is paramount to large populations in Nigeria.”
  -Johan Viljoen, the Director of Denis Harley Peace Institute. “Locals (in Anambra) describe the current wave as armed Fulani militias. They carry AK47s and wear combat uniforms”, said Viljoen. He also added that the militias have established camps in the forests killing the men and raping the women, and in many areas there are now food shortages and hunger. The militia are being brought in by trucks and supplied with arms once they have established themselves in the south. Johan said the Fulanis are operating under the umbrella of an organization called Miyetti Allah, which was orgininally founded to promote the Fulani interests. “The patron of Miyetti Allah is President Muhammadu Buhari himself,” asserted Viljoen. He pointed out that local commentators and analysts describe the situation in the south as a concerted, well-coordinated, occupation saying that, “the ultimate goal is to occupy the entire country and establish a Caliphate, giving the Fulani access to land and mineral resources.” He pointed out that the locals have noted that to date the government has not prosecuted a single Fulani for their violence. “Fulani has been posting on social media that all Nigeria belongs to them,”
  -Gideon Obasogie said it is a metamorphosis of Boko Haram, they want to wipe out all Christians. “We need to find out who are the sponsors of this terror if we need to end this terrorism." (2021) Fulanization of Nigeria by genocide?
• Johnnie Moore and Abraham Cooper
  (2020): The Next Jihad: Stop the Christian Genocide in Africa.
• Conerly Casey (2009): Mediated Hostility: Media, Affective Citizenship, and Genocide in Northern Nigeria. In: Hinton, Alexander Laban, O'Neill, Kevin Lewis, Whitehead, Neil L., Fair, Jo Ellen and Payne, Leigh A.. Genocide: Truth, Memory, and Representation, New York, USA: Duke University Press, 2009.
  Genocidal massacres: “… the victims of the May 11 violence gathered evidence of international, planned actions that they might use to support a charge of genocide against the perpetrators. Victims claimed that ‘yan daba, with the assistance of almajirai, some as young as five, carried lists of all Christians living in or near the industrial areas and in areas of mixed ethnicity and religion outside of the old city. [FN: Almajiray bragged to the child of a Muslim professor that they had helped perpetrators identify Christians living on the Bayero University campus ] While the killers were almost exclusively Muslim boys and teenagers, their victims were of both sexes and ranged in age from babies to the elderly. Victims who survived, some as young as five, told me that the perpetrators had asked them to recite verses from the Qur’an before deciding whether to kill them.“ (2009) Mediated Hostility: Media, Affective Citizenship, and Genocide in Northern Nigeria
• Niyi Akingbe, Ph.D. (Professor of Comparative Literature and Poetics)
  “The paper argues that there is no other nomenclature befitting Fulani herdsmen’s killings in Nigeria other than genocide since the perpetrators fulfil many of Waller’s four-model hypotheses. The warlike nomadic ethnic group Fulani is ethnocentric, pursues self-interest and dominance of other ethnic groups in Nigeria, dehumanises, and terrorises its victims.”
  (2022) Has this house fallen? Fragile nationhood and the Fulani herdsmen’s genocide in Nigerian poetry
• Uchendu, Egodi. "Death of Igbo Muslims in the Riots". Dawn for Islam in Eastern Nigeria: A History of the Arrival of Islam in Igboland, Berlin, Boston: De Gruyter,
  2020, pp. 248-253. https://doi.org/10.1515/9783112208724-049 “…northern Muslims have little estimation for Muslims of other ethnic groups because “their great grand fathers were not Muslims.”
  Evidence of systematic killings of moderate Muslims due to their ethnicity.
• “Federal and state governments continued to tolerate attacks or fail to respond to violent actions by non-state actors who justify their violence on religious grounds,” the report said, citing widespread attacks by a variety of Islamist groups. It also criticised the enforcement of blasphemy laws by some state governments and attacks on indigenous religious practices – including the call from the governor and Catholic bishops in Anambra state “to eliminate and banish neo-paganism”.
  (2025) Protesters ‘cry to the world’ for end to attacks on Nigerian Christians

Wikigrund (talk) 09:43, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

So from this list we have, as academic sources:

• Ochab & Alton 2022, Palgrave Macmillan book.
• Casey 2009, Duke University Press book.
• Uchendu 2020, De Gruyter book.
• Akingbe 2022, in the journal Cogent Arts & Humanities.

Casey and Ochab & Alton, look to be worth particular consideration. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 20:48, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Edit request 20 April 2025

Description of suggested change:

Please change the table entry for Gaza from:

"By March 2024, after five months of attacks, Israeli military action had resulted in the deaths of over 31,500 Palestinians".

to:

"By March 2024, after five months of fighting, there have been over 31,500 Palestinian fatalities"

Justification: The document cited after this sentence has no information about what caused the deaths. Specifically, it does not mention "attacks" or "Israeli military action".

It is possible that some portion of the fatalities were from natural causes or Hamas military action.

Diff:

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ORIGINAL_TEXT

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CHANGED_TEXT

Velcrowp (talk) 23:03, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

 Partly done: By March 2024, after five months of attacks, Israeli military action had resulted in the deaths of over 31,500 Palestinians to "By March 2024, after five months of fighting, Israeli military action had resulted in the deaths of over 31,500 Palestinians."

Please list references of Hamas killing, and natural causes. Valorrr ^{(lets chat)} 01:26, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Hey Valorrr,

If the text had originally said simply "there were over 31,500 deaths" and I requested that you add "due to Hamas killing and natural causes", I would absolutely need references.

The current text has the same requirements. It is stating a cause without references. If Israeli military action were the only plausible cause, that requirement might be relaxed. But Hamas killing and natural causes are plausible, so that requirement still stands. Velcrowp (talk) 12:29, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

Your request has been processed. This is not a consensus forming discussion because you are not permitted to participate in those. So, you do not need to post anymore comments here. If you have references that support what you want changed you can post another edit request. Sean.hoyland (talk) 13:40, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I pointed out an inconsistent application of standards when making a decision on my edit request. Can you please tell me how to address this inconsistency? Velcrowp (talk) 15:46, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

You need to stop replying here unfortunately per Wikipedia policy. However I can say the GHM numbers certainly don't include natural causes and I believe it's specifically a count of those killed by Israeli military action.

You can read this for a bit more info https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-has-israels-gaza-offensive-killed-2025-01-15/

But please don't respond here further per WP:ARBECR. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Sorry to violate Wikipedia policy, but there is an inconsistency in application of standards. I asked how to address it, and was simply told not to respond here, without telling me how to properly respond. Seems Kafkaesque. Can you tell me how to properly respond, other than "not here"? Velcrowp (talk) 23:43, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

You're simply not allowed to participate in the topic area until your account is extended confirmed. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 23:48, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 April 2025

The 186,000 death estimated for the Gaza war is taking into account estimated calculated indirect deaths based on other r, while all other genocides are using estimated direct deaths. I believe this number can be misleading and should be modified to align with the standard on other genocides on this page Nicomart123 (talk) 22:01, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:46, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

Your statement is simply untrue. The Trail of Tears listing includes indirect deaths (which were most of the deaths) in its death toll. JasonMacker (talk) 17:07, 26 April 2025 (UTC)