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European dates have not been announced yet.

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I have seen that European dates keep on getting written into the page, yet neither has anybody officially announced them, nor I see any mention of them other than here (shakira.com makes no mention of any date in Europe - only dates in US/Canada). Please refrain from adding them back since they haven't been announced yet. 181.170.152.208 (talk) 01:50, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Use of quotes in "Background"

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The use of quotes within the background section, with the mentioning of both "overwhelming demand" and "need for larger venues" stem because they come direct from the cited article (which did not need to be repeated in some other edits), ie: "Shakira is pushing back her North American dates for her Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran tour to 2025, the singer announced on Friday, citing overwhelming demand and the need for larger venues. Not to mention, the source cites it is Shakira whom announced the push back, and then Live Nation (which doesn't need a second linking, again, another mishap of restoring previous edits) announced the new dates/venues. Splitting information from October 2024 inbetween two separated paragraphs also is not required; October can and should be kept together, as it is a group of information that happened in that month; if separated dates were removed, it'd be a consistently flowing paragraph. livelikemusic (TALK!) 20:30, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Paragraphs do not necessarily have to be divided into months/dates. Generally, a new paragraph begins when there is a change of focus, idea, or direction, such as the postponement of the entire first leg of the tour. The use of quotes is not necessary because there's several reliable sources that cite demand as the reason for the postponement of the tour, as simple as that. Thedayandthetime (talk) 17:22, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Again, the quotes were provided because the wording came directly from the article; not quoting would be in violation of WP:COPYVIO/WP:PLAG, which would not be appropriate. It has nothing to do with whether "several" sources provide the information; it's about the wording itself to avoid violating the previously-linked content guidelines and legal policies. And while WP:PARAGRAPH does state: All the sentences within a paragraph should revolve around the same topic. When the topic changes, a new paragraph should be started. Overly long paragraphs should be split up, as long as the cousin paragraphs keep the idea in focus. it does not state they have to. And again, if we removed time (October 2024 mentions), it would be a consistent flow of information from the month of October. The alternative would ultimately be to remove mention of time (ie: October 2024) in creation of a new paragraph focusing on the tour's postponement in North America, which I don't few as overly necessary to do, especially given how small the paragraphs have been. livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:27, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As an example —
|Following her [[Super Bowl LIV halftime show|halftime performance]] at [[Super Bowl LIV]], [[Live Nation (events promoter)|Live Nation]] announced [[Shakira]] would tour in 2021.<ref name="Miami Herald 1">{{cite news |last1=Cohen |first1=Howard |title=Shakira announces 2021 world tour after dazzling Super Bowl |url=https://www.miamiherald.com/entertainment/music-news-reviews/article239944598.htmlmp/ |access-date=9 January 2025 |work=[[Miami Herald]] |publisher=[[McClatchy]] |date=4 February 2020 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20240413144711/https://www.miamiherald.com/entertainment/music-news-reviews/article239944598.html |archive-date=13 April 2024 |location=United States |issn=0898-865X |oclc=2733685}}</ref> Further news was delayed, due to the [[COVID-19 pandemic]]. In September 2023, Shakira told ''[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]]'' she planned to release new music and embark on a "global tour" in the following year. She told the publication: "Putting a tour together is fun, but it's a great effort and you have to put everything on the balance and decide what the fans really want to hear, what songs you want to hear and how much production you want. In the end, the more production you have, the higher the ticket price. I want the tickets to be affordable. But to me, the most important thing is the repertoire. That's why I think [my next tour] will be the tour of a lifetime, because I have so many songs."<ref name="Billboard 1">{{cite magazine |last1=Cobo |first1=Leila |title=Hits Don't Lie: Shakira Bares Her Soul on Turning Pain Into Pop Gold |url=https://www.billboard.com/music/latin/shakira-billboard-2023-cover-1235416448/ |magazine=[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]] |publisher=[[Eldridge Industries]] |access-date=9 January 2025 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20230921181453/https://www.billboard.com/music/latin/shakira-billboard-2023-cover-1235416448/ |archive-date=21 September 2023 |location=United States |issn=0006-2510 |oclc=732913734 |date=21 September 2023 |url-status=live}}</ref>

On 13 April 2024, while appearing as a special guest during [[Bizarrap]]'s set at [[Coachella]], she announced the tour.<ref name="Diario AS 1">{{cite news |last1=Morales |first1=Carolina |title=Shakira anuncia nueva gira 'Las mujeres ya no lloran world tour': detalles, fechas y qué se sabe |trans-title=Shakira announces new tour 'Las mujeres ya no lloran world tour': details, dates and what is known |url=https://colombia.as.com/tikitakas/shakira-anuncia-nueva-gira-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-world-tour-detalles-fechas-y-que-se-sabe-n/ |access-date=9 January 2025 |work=[[Diario AS]] |publisher=[[PRISA]] |date=14 April 2024 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20250109164041/https://colombia.as.com/tikitakas/shakira-anuncia-nueva-gira-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-world-tour-detalles-fechas-y-que-se-sabe-n/ |archive-date=9 January 2025 |location=Spain |issn=1888-6671 |language=es-co}}</ref><ref name="Marca 1">{{cite news |title=Shakira anuncia gira "las mujeres ya no lloran": fechas y preventa de boletos del World Tour 2024, ¿estará en México? |trans-title=Shakira announces "Women no longer cry" tour: dates and ticket pre-sale for the World Tour 2024, will she be in Mexico? |url=https://www.marca.com/mx/trending/musica/2024/04/14/661b55f422601d3f618b456f.html |access-date=9 January 2025 |work=[[Marca (newspaper)|Marca]] |publisher=[[Unidad Editorial]] |date=14 April 2024 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20250109164445/https://www.marca.com/mx/trending/musica/2024/04/14/661b55f422601d3f618b456f.html |archive-date=9 January 2025 |location=Spain |issn=2340-0595 |oclc=472455028 |language=es-MX}}</ref> Three days later, Live Nation announced concerts in North America,<ref name="Live Nation PR 1">{{cite press release |date=16 April 2024 |title=Shakira Announces First Run of Dates on Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran World Tour Kicking Off November 2 in Palm Desert, CA |url=https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2024/04/shakira-announces-first-run-of-dates-on-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-world-tour-kicking-off-november-2-in-palm-desert-ca/ |url-status=live |location=United States |publisher=[[Live Nation (events promoter)|Live Nation]] |agency=[[Live Nation Entertainment]] |archive-url=https://archive.today/20250109170247/https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2024/04/shakira-announces-first-run-of-dates-on-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-world-tour-kicking-off-november-2-in-palm-desert-ca/ |archive-date=9 January 2025 |access-date=9 January 2025}}</ref> with additional concerts added due to demand in [[Thousand Palms, California|Thousand Palms]], [[Miami]] and [[New York City]], respectively.<ref name="Daily Jang 1">{{cite news |author1=Web Desk |title=Shakira adds new dates to her LMYNL World Tour after overwhelming demands from fans |url=https://jang.com.pk/en/10366-shakira-adds-new-dates-to-her-lmynl-world-tour-after-overwhelming-demands-from-fans-news |access-date=9 January 2025 |work=[[Daily Jang]] |publisher=[[Jang Media Group]] |date=18 April 2024 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20250109170916/https://jang.com.pk/en/10366-shakira-adds-new-dates-to-her-lmynl-world-tour-after-overwhelming-demands-from-fans-news |archive-date=9 January 2025 |location=Pakistan |issn=1563-8723 |oclc=1781424}}</ref> In October 2024, Shakira's official website revealed concerts in the Latin America region;<ref name="Official Website 1">{{cite web |title=Tour |url=https://www.shakira.com/tour/ |website=Official Website |publisher=[[Sony Music Entertainment]] |access-date=9 January 2025 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20241210191920/https://www.shakira.com/tour/ |archive-date=10 December 2024 |location=United States |url-status=dead}}</ref><ref name="CBN 1">{{cite web |author1=PutEssay |title=Shakira anuncia turnê na América Latina com shows no Brasil em 2025 |url=https://cbn.globo.com/cultura/noticia/2024/10/02/shakira-anuncia-turne-na-america-latina-com-shows-no-brasil-em-2025.ghtml |website=[[Central Brasileira de Notícias]] |publisher=[[Grupo Globo]] |access-date=9 January 2025 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20250110020532/https://cbn.globo.com/cultura/noticia/2024/10/02/shakira-anuncia-turne-na-america-latina-com-shows-no-brasil-em-2025.ghtml |archive-date=10 January 2025 |location=Brazil |language=pt-br |date=2 October 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref> additional concerts were subsequently added in several cities eight days later.<ref name="G1" />

Shakira announced plans to postpone the North American concerts, citing the "overwhelming demand", as well as the "need for larger venues".<ref name="Rolling Stone 1">{{cite magazine |last1=Millman |first1=Ethan |title=Shakira Postpones North American Tour to Upgrade from Arenas to Stadiums |url=https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/shakira-postpones-north-american-tour-upgrades-stadiums-1235137853/ |magazine=[[Rolling Stone]] |publisher=[[Penske Media Corporation]] |access-date=9 January 2025 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20241019063113/https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/shakira-postpones-north-american-tour-upgrades-stadiums-1235137853/ |archive-date=19 October 2024 |location=United States |issn=0035-791X |oclc=969027590 |date=18 October 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref> Following her announcement, the upgraded concerts and venues were announced for May and June 2025 by Live Nation.<ref name="Live Nation PR 2">{{cite press release |date=21 October 2024 |title=Due to Unprecedented Fan Demand, Shakira Announces 2024 Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran World Tour North America Dates Will Expand to Stadiums in 2025 |url=https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2024/10/shakira-announces-2024-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-world-tour-north-america-dates-will-expand-to-stadiums-in-2025/ |url-status=live |location=United States |publisher=[[Live Nation (events promoter)|Live Nation]] |agency=[[Live Nation Entertainment]] |archive-url=https://archive.today/20250109154207/https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2024/10/shakira-announces-2024-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-world-tour-north-america-dates-will-expand-to-stadiums-in-2025/ |archive-date=9 January 2025 |access-date=9 January 2025}}</ref> Additional concerts in [[Atlanta]], [[Houston]] and [[Phoenix, Arizona|Phoenix]] were announced on 10 December 2024.<ref name="Billboard 2">{{cite magazine |last1=Flores |first1=Griselda |title=Shakira Adds New Stadium Dates for North American Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran Tour |url=https://www.billboard.com/music/latin/shakira-2025-tour-dates-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-north-america-1235806819/ |magazine=[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]] |publisher=[[Eldridge Industries]] |access-date=10 January 2025 |archive-url=https://archive.today/20241210212452/https://www.billboard.com/music/latin/shakira-2025-tour-dates-las-mujeres-ya-no-lloran-north-america-1235806819/ |archive-date=10 December 2024 |location=United States |issn=0006-2510 |oclc=732913734 |date=10 December 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>

livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:42, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not using literal quotes would not be a violation of WP:COPYVIO/WP:PLAG because to paraphrase, which is what editors do in Wikipedia, is precisely to quote using different words. Also, if you actually want to follow Wikipedia's guidelines, then stick to what WP:PARAGRAPH states and start a new paragraph as I have been suggesting. Thedayandthetime (talk) 18:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Literal quotes" as you say are used quite often in Wikipedia articles, as it is the reason(s) why decision(s) were made. There is no need to paraphrase, nor is there legal policy against it. And again, WP:PARAGRAPH, the word "should" is used, which does not mean it is mandated, as you are continuing to suggest (or in reality, implementing outside of this discussion). And if you looked at the example above for which I exampled, you'd see a new paragraph was suggested and, yet ignored. Also, please be cautiuous in using phrasing, such as "which is what editors do in Wikipedia". It could come off as not demonstrating good faith between editors. We're here to do this civil manner to reach consensus-reached content resolution. livelikemusic (TALK!) 19:34, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Are you an AI? Thedayandthetime (talk) 18:28, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That is completely unnecessary, beyond rude, nor is it civil or assuming of good faith. livelikemusic (TALK!) 19:45, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Livelikemusic, it's just a question and I have the right to do it. Bots now are the total of nearly half of all internet traffic globally, and a lot of people use chatbots such as ChatGPT to write online. It's an admisible question. Thedayandthetime (talk) 17:22, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, yes, the new paragraph that you suggested is a better option than what the article currently has. The literal quotation is still unnecessary. Thedayandthetime (talk) 18:34, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we're at a standstill, as it's not in violation of any policy, nor do I view it as something to be removed, as again, it's the reason why the announcement/change was made, nor do I see a proposed potential change being made on this talk page. livelikemusic (TALK!) 19:45, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Just updated the article with your proposed example above. Thedayandthetime (talk) 21:04, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mention of stadium in lead

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Several sources within the background section (as well as others) detail this as a stadium tour. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:17, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's correct. It's not an all-stadium tour, but it's still a stadium tour. It has been marketed as such and several reliable sources refer to it as a stadium tour, since most of its run take place in stadiums. "Stadium" tour should be mentioned in lead. Thedayandthetime (talk) 18:45, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The venue for this concert tour includes both stadiums and arenas, not exclusively at the stadium only. with distinct stage setups and production designs tailored for each venue type [source: https://www.threads.net/@shakiralmynltour/post/DBaDx0gSgwc?xmt=AQGzCQ3ggg8BndCQybPkLcVpw0vpOkEfQr_F3m0YvmvcCA]. Referring to it as a "stadium tour" is definitely misleading and overly complimentary, which contradicts Wikipedia's guidelines regarding MOS:PUFFERY WP:NPOV. It would be more appropriate to simply label it as a "tour" without the use of any embellished exaggerated adjectives. ShakiraFandom (talk) 20:31, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Fan accounts are not reliable sources. Naming it a stadium tour is not an embellished exaggerated adjective. Multiple sources in "Background" section describe the tour as a stadium tour, as simple as that. Thedayandthetime (talk) 21:11, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Social media, especially from a fan account, is not acceptable per WP:SOCIALMEDIA. Verifiability applies here, and per the reliable sources within the previously linked section, this is a stadium tour. It isn't an "all-stadium" tour, but it is classified by Live Nation as a stadium tour. MOS:PEACOCK would apply if it overly described the stadiums, etc. Simply stating it's a stadium tour does not violate any guideline. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:36, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You can check Ticketmaster. This tour clearly has 2 different productions/designs concept for both stadiums and arenas Respectively
arena’s stage design: goto.now/mFg5a
Stadium’s version: goto.now/P4pvx
There’s no a single source you mentioned claimed it as stadium tour exclusively, they basically said something regarding upgraded several arenas shows to the stadium, that is it. A stadium tour means ALL concerts are held in stadiums only, not a single arena. By calling it as stadium tour is misleading information (the tour has 2 different concepts for arena&stadium + multiple shows held at arenas too) WP:LIE and overly-praise adjective MOS:PUFFERY, Wikipedia adheres to neutrality as much as possible WP:NPOV ShakiraFandom (talk) 22:00, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ticketmaster is also not a reliable source; again, per the sources of the article, it's classification as a stadium tour stands. A worse abuse of puffery would be Cowboy Carter Tour, which lists it as "her fifth overall" all-stadium tour, but I wouldn't bring it up as an argument as WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. And it's not a lie; there are stadium concerts AND has been promoted as a stadium tour. Puffery would be listed it as her first stadium tour due to the demand... that would be puffery. Even in headline for Pollstar labels it as a "global stadium tour". And considering all-stadium concert tours exists, which does encompass all-stadium venue tours, your statement of "[A] stadium tour means ALL concerts are held in stadiums only" is false (and would classify under WP:LIE). livelikemusic (TALK!) 22:12, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. There's a difference between a general statement and a universal statement. "All-stadium tour" and "stadium tour" mean two different things. Thedayandthetime (talk) 02:37, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The difference is Cowboy Carter and all her concert tour post-The Mrs. Carter Show World Tour are a stadium tours, Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran World Tour isn't. ShakiraFandom (talk) 03:54, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus has yet to be fully reached, so editing/changing to one's own point of view is not appropriate. The material in-question should never be changed while discussions are still happening, stalled or otherwise. Furthermore, Wikipedia does not require unanimity and as of right now, the majority ruling is to list "stadium" in the opening lead. We talk, we don't revert (which happened today) and could be see as violations of both WP:STONEWALL and WP:DISRUPT. If you feel further discussion is needed beyond this, other options are available. livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:12, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2025

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The setlist section on this article is written incorrectly. Many songs were performed as medleys and the song “Mama Africa” was cover performed only for one night. The correct setlist can be viewed here: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/shakira/2025/morumbis-sao-paulo-brazil-7b534e60.html ShakiraConcepts (talk) 03:42, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This source mentions a 13 Feb setlist while in the article, it is 11 Feb. Any differances? Warriorglance (talk) 03:55, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done Setlist FM is not a reliable source. It is a user-generated source and was deemed unreliable by the community in 2018, per WP:ALBUMSOURCE. livelikemusic (TALK!) 03:59, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Set list" section

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Current set list is incorrect. The song in the intro is titled "La Huesera", not "Caloris". This is backed up by multiple sources. Also, the set list has thirteen acts, per reliable sources. I edited the section, by breaking it down into thirteen acts, adding the sources. WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE. These sources also mentioned several interludes, the video introduction, and more.

My edit was reverted by User:livelikemusic who implied in his edit summary that I was lazy due to issue regarding WP:CITEVAR. Not gonna engange in an edit war. The section needs to be corrected still. Thedayandthetime (talk) 17:51, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Extension of this discussion. The set list [originally] introduced on February 24, 2025, contains information which violates Wikipedia's stance on no original research. And then to re-introduce it today with some of the same references, as well as link rot seems counter intuitive when WP:CITEVAR continues to be a problem on this article, and continues to violate the stance on no original research. Unless a source (which should always be a reliable, third party source) states the information, to assume is a violation of original research; it becomes disputable. To have eight citations for an opening night set list is absolutely absurd, and borderlines on an overkill of citation.
As previously pointed out, this article does not state the breakdown of acts (merely that there are act breakdowns). This article as well does not explicitly state the act breakdowns. This article does not explicitly state the breakdowns and is also reliant on social media posts, which violates WP:SOCIALMEDIA. This article is not even representative of the opening night, and would be more so for the "Alternations" section, although, it does conflict with Billboard's reporting of opening night, altogether, and suggests the set list goes from solo performances to multiple medleys. This article is also not from opening night, and also does not explicitly state the breakdown of acts. This article follows the same from the previously-linked article (which seems to be a cut-paste repeat).
Not to mention, the ongoing continued stylizing of the set list of overtly complicated and unnecessary. Also, worth mentioning, the accusatory statement of My edit was reverted by User:livelikemusic who implied in his edit summary that I was lazy due to issue regarding WP:CITEVAR. is false; I called the inclusion of bare URLs to be lazy, which is a stance I have in connection to link rot on Wikipedia (laziness of bare URLs is what I stated). If that is perceived of calling a user lazy, then I apologize. That is not what I was doing. At al. livelikemusic (TALK!) 18:22, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Billboard explicitly states there are thirteen acts - which this article, this article and this article further confirm and explicitly break down. I don't understand why you use the "...not even representative of the opening night" as an argument because what does that have to do with the fact that the set list is incorrect and not supported by the sources online? I simply added the sources that backed up my edit (not only the acts breakdown but also the songs' titles, medleys, etc.). Of course, the source that is currently used can be deleted since is incorrect. The set list doesn't have to based on opening night. There's no Wikipedia rule for that. You say using many sources is a problem but then you revert my edits when they're not backed up by sources. The Remezcla one and the other Billboard one were added because they backed up the title, for example, the "Camina con la loba" segment. Thedayandthetime (talk) 19:21, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As pointed out, several times, stating there are thirteen acts does not explicitly state where the acts break down. There is a difference. The breakdown of acts are not explicitly stated in either of those articles (one of which repeats), and to conclude from them the act breakdowns is a violation of original research; this is an example of where acts are explicitly broken down. livelikemusic (TALK!) 19:34, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No. Again: this article explicitly states where the thirteen acts that there are (as explicitly stated by Billboard) break down. I'm not concluding anything, I'm following WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE and not violating original research policy, as you keep suggesting mistakenly. Thedayandthetime (talk) 19:48, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Again: the Billboard citation that you have decided to keep in the section has factually incorrect information (the name of the song in the intro is titled "La Huesera", not "Caloris", according to multiple reliable sources). A [disputed – discuss] tag should be added. Thedayandthetime (talk) 19:56, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This article does not state act breakdowns in either of the three paragraphs that are displayed. It states an abridged set list and also states which will be the same for all her shows which is an assumption, as nothing is definitive until it happens. This article from Billboard does not break the acts down explicitly (as exampled by the ignored sampling I provided above). It only states there are thirteen acts in the show, but does not explicitly state where the breakdowns fall; the article also links to this article for a set list, which supposedly stems from the opening night in Rio de Janeiro, which is contradicted by this source from Billboard Brasil, also from opening night. Los 40 is another citation for the opening night set list, which more closely supports the set list already cited in-article. livelikemusic (TALK!) 20:01, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
At this juncture, it'd be best to wait for other parties to enter into this talk page discussion, to gain other view points and opinions. livelikemusic (TALK!) 20:09, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This article does breaks down the thirteen acts yet it doesn't literally mention the term "act" in it, if that's what you're referring to. How is that needed when this Billboard article explicitly states there are thirteen acts.
Again: this Billboard article states there are thirteen acts and the other articles I referenced above break those acts down.
Multiple sources and media coverage can be used in this case since many of these news articles can contradict each other and have innacurate information because, hey: these are reporters and journalists (humans) attending the concerts, including the Billboard source you're clinging to so dearly. We don't have an official set list shared by Shakira, Live Nation or her team yet so as editors we must corroborate, confirm, check, verify, contrast multiple sources. That's what I intended to do with my initial edit a long time ago, which you reverted by stating that's not how the set list sections usually are in Wikipedia.
At this juncture, I don't think any other parties are gonna enter into this talk page discussion. Take into account that you have been the only user reverting my proposed edit. Thedayandthetime (talk) 20:43, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Again, you're missing the point: the citation(s) needs to state what the breakdown is. Not that there are breakdowns (as I again exampled and you've continued to ignore). To introduction information, as you've done, is a violation of Wikipedia's stance on original research. Information must be verified, and in none of the sources provided provide the breakdown you've added in not once, but twice. Per WP:NOR, it states: Any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by a reliable source. Material for which no reliable source can be found is considered original research. I've challenged it as the information as laid out in either of above-linked edits is not mentioned in any of the sources you've provided at repeated lengths (such as it is here for basic act breakdown or even this for specific act breakdown). Anything outside of those examples are considered original research, which is not acceptable on Wikipedia. I'm not disputing thirteen acts; I'm disputed the breakdown as you've introduced, as none of the sources actually do support it.
And considering this discussion began around two-and-a-half hours ago, it's a bit premature to state I don't think any other parties are gonna enter into this talk page discussion. And, if no one else joins, there are other avenues to go down, but those generally come after discussions. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:09, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"As none of the sources actually do support it". This source does a basic act breakdown yet you're deciding to ignore it. It is stating what the breakdown is. The other Billboard citation I've provided states that there are breakdowns, which you don't disput. I get it. I'm not ignoring you, we just have different personal interpretations of the citations. Thedayandthetime (talk) 02:29, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It does not state what you are claiming it is. This is what the article states — translated:

Nowhere in that does it breakdown the acts into what you've attempted to place into the article twice. Not to mention, it states (again mentioning) which will be the same for all her shows, which is an assumption they cannot make and is already proven to be a false statement. You are ignoring what is being written, as I've provided not one but two examples of what needs to be stated in an article for the edits—both previously linked—to be included and not be considered challenged original research. livelikemusic (TALK!) 02:36, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your view is too rigid. That's obviously the acts breakdown, plus the article is using a source that has an actual already proven false statement that you've been ignoring: the song in the intro is titled "La Huesera", not "Caloris". The Billboard Brazil journalist was doing "original research", they did an assumption of what the song in the intro was called and multiple other articles replicated that, and so did you. 'Caloris' is the name of the universe within the digital token/NFT collection (which is titled 'La Caldera') Shakira created a couple of years ago. Here's one of the multiple sources confirming that. That being said, for some reason you have decided to use that source as the primary source for the set list section (which does in fact have a proven false statement) and don't seem to have any issue with that, yet you're bringing up the "false statement" in the source that I provided as if that was an argument. Thedayandthetime (talk) 03:21, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Too rigid? No, it isn't. It's following the guidelines of Wikipedia's policy on no original research, as laid out (which I previously quoted and will promptly re-quote with bolded parts that point out where my "rigid"ness comes from): Any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by a reliable source. Material for which no reliable source can be found is considered original research. You want to introduce original research, which no source explicitly states, as exampled in the two examples I provided in this edit (which, again, was ignored given it was never addressed or acknowledged). The set list, as presented in the article at present, sticks to the source that is provided. Sure, an {{efn}} could be providing, notating that alternate sources do claim another title for Intro, but that's a minor issue that's part of a much bigger issue, and it's a bigger issue that I feel is of more weighted importance at present. livelikemusic (TALK!) 03:31, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Livelikemusic is in the right about this, and is correct about what they are saying. None of the sources Thedayandthetime provided mention anything about the set being broken down into acts, if it really was, then Billboard or literally ANY other news source that posts set lists (not news sources that use Setlist.fm which is not reliable per WP:NOTRSMUSIC) in reviews for certain said shows would include the acts. Clearly it is original research to even add act breakdowns. HorrorLover555 (talk) 18:17, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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