Talk:January 6 United States Capitol attack
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split Attack on the Capitol section
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
request to split Attack on the Capitol section (with the Bombs discovered near Capitol section left out) into January 6 Capitol breach to aid in reducing length which is 14788 words
many of the subsections in this section already refer to this event as a "breach", so i don't think i will run into naming issues Cognsci (talk) 18:27, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
- You want to split out the Capitol attack section from the article on the Capitol attack? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:35, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
- the capitol breach, you know the smashing of the reinforced windows, the police officer getting crushed by the tunnel breachers
maybeon second thoughts, the Bombs discovered near Capitol Complex section should be left out Cognsci (talk) 18:41, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
- In agreement with Muboshgu, I think that it makes more sense to split out side attacks like the pipe bombings than the main subject. Per the prior move discussions rejecting names with "breach" in them, this descriptor neutralizes the violent nature of the breach. The greatest opportunity for shrinking the prose size seems to be further shrinking portions of the final third of the article that are redundant with the existing aftermath of the January 6 United States Capitol attack article. ViridianPenguin🐧 (💬) 21:22, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
- ok i'll trim the Political, legal, and social repercussions section, merge some subsections of the aftermath section and revisit this discussion Cognsci (talk) 23:02, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
- To be clear, I do prefer trimming than splitting this article. I think the entire thing needs to be in one page. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:33, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
- I reverted the large number of trims. Per BRD. I think that we should discuss whether it is for example important what Congress, the Biden admin, and Smith did. I think it is. Andre🚐 23:49, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
- ok I'll close this split discussion and start another discussion for trimming the aftermath section, I'll see you in 12 hours because I need to sleep Cognsci (talk) 00:05, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- No rush, no deadline. Andre🚐 00:09, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- oh yeah right forgot about that Cognsci (talk) 00:10, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Reverted. Do not close your own discussion Andre🚐 00:15, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- why? i'm not aware of any policy or guideline against this and since i was the only one in favor of this proposal and changed my mind, it should be closed
- if someone does want to go through with the proposal they can just reopen it like you did Cognsci (talk) 09:54, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- nevermind i saw bullet point 4 of wp:WHENCLOSE
- seems like the point of closing a discussion is to provide closure and summary of long and controversial debate, and closing in other circumstances is either unhelpful or unnecessary Cognsci (talk) 10:16, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Reverted. Do not close your own discussion Andre🚐 00:15, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- oh yeah right forgot about that Cognsci (talk) 00:10, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- No rush, no deadline. Andre🚐 00:09, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- ok I'll close this split discussion and start another discussion for trimming the aftermath section, I'll see you in 12 hours because I need to sleep Cognsci (talk) 00:05, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- I reverted the large number of trims. Per BRD. I think that we should discuss whether it is for example important what Congress, the Biden admin, and Smith did. I think it is. Andre🚐 23:49, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
- To be clear, I do prefer trimming than splitting this article. I think the entire thing needs to be in one page. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:33, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
- ok i'll trim the Political, legal, and social repercussions section, merge some subsections of the aftermath section and revisit this discussion Cognsci (talk) 23:02, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
trimming aftermath section
proposal 1 revision 1 remove Domestic reactions section
proposal 2 revision 1 remove International reactions secton
proposal 3 revision 1 remove 14th Amendment disqualification section
proposal 4 revision 1 remove Sarbanes–Oxley Act prosecutions section
proposal 5 revision 1 remove 2025 pardons and commutations section
proposal 6 revision 1 remove non excerpt text in Political, legal, and social repercussions section
pre-discussion objections user:AndreJustAndre obejected to proposal 6, specificallv the removal of these sections (paragraphs):
The 117th Congress passed and President Joe Biden signed legislation related to the Capitol attack, including the Capitol Police Emergency Assistance Act of 2021, the Electoral Reform Act, and a bill granting awards to Capitol Police officers for their bravery during the insurrection.[1]
On July 16, 2023, Trump was notified that he was officially a target in the Smith special counsel investigation.[2] On August 1, 2023, Trump was indicted on four charges. These were conspiracy to defraud the United States under Title 18 of the United States Code, obstructing an official proceeding and conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding under the Sarbanes–Oxley Act of 2002, and conspiracy against rights under the Enforcement Act of 1870. Trump pleaded not guilty,[3] while his attorney Sidney Powell later pleaded guilty to conspiring to interfere with the election.[4] Following Trump's reelection to the presidency in November 2024, Smith filed a motion to dismiss the case without prejudice, citing the DOJ's policy of not prosecuting sitting presidents. Judge Chutkan approved the request and dismissed all charges.[5] Smith submitted his final 137-page report to the Justice Department on January 7, 2025 and resigned three days later.[6][7] The part of the report about election obstruction was made public on January 14. The part about the mishandling of government records was not released at the same time because it was related to an ongoing criminal case.[8]
Cognsci (talk) 10:34, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
proposal 7 revision 1
split Evacuation of leadership amid Capitol lockdown section into Evacuation of Senate leadership amid Capitol lockdown and Evacuation of House leadership amid Capitol lockdown sections (it's way too long) Cognsci (talk) 17:40, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Yeah, trim does not mean wholesale removal. It should mean removing excessive details. Andre🚐 20:50, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- And yes I object to all of your poorly discussed wholesale removals of sourced material. And my revert means that, but to make it explicit, please trim as in remove excessive detail, and when you wholesale remove sourced material you are not improving the article. Andre🚐 20:52, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- what do you mean "wholesale" i didn't remove the entire aftermath section? Cognsci (talk) 20:54, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- is there any unsourced material in the aftermath section i should be removing? because it's pretty well sourced... Cognsci (talk) 21:04, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- You can trim excessive details that are better handled at a sub article about that topic. And summarize key facts. Deleting a whole section at once about the pardons for example I object to. Andre🚐 21:07, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- well i would argue that the pardons are pretty excessive detail but i guess i'll just wait for a 3rd opinion to prevent an edit war Cognsci (talk) 21:40, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- The pardons are a pretty important part of this. Andre🚐 21:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- well actually i meant the 2025 pardons and commutations section Cognsci (talk) 21:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- including the pardons in passing is fine but a whole section with the commutations, i disagree Cognsci (talk) 21:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- For what reason? Andre🚐 21:54, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- for the reason that they are one of the least related parts of the article to the the topic of the article Cognsci (talk) 22:15, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Why? It seems directly relevant to the aftermath. Andre🚐 22:19, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- we can't include every little detail that is somewhat relevant to the aftermath, that's what the subarticle is for Cognsci (talk) 22:21, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- this conversation is ultimately just a tug of war between relevancy and article size Cognsci (talk) 22:24, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- You can summarize the main points and then link to the main article. Not removing all of it Andre🚐 22:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- this conversation is ultimately just a tug of war between relevancy and article size Cognsci (talk) 22:24, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- we can't include every little detail that is somewhat relevant to the aftermath, that's what the subarticle is for Cognsci (talk) 22:21, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Why? It seems directly relevant to the aftermath. Andre🚐 22:19, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- for the reason that they are one of the least related parts of the article to the the topic of the article Cognsci (talk) 22:15, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- For what reason? Andre🚐 21:54, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- including the pardons in passing is fine but a whole section with the commutations, i disagree Cognsci (talk) 21:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- well actually i meant the 2025 pardons and commutations section Cognsci (talk) 21:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- The pardons are a pretty important part of this. Andre🚐 21:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- well i would argue that the pardons are pretty excessive detail but i guess i'll just wait for a 3rd opinion to prevent an edit war Cognsci (talk) 21:40, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- You can trim excessive details that are better handled at a sub article about that topic. And summarize key facts. Deleting a whole section at once about the pardons for example I object to. Andre🚐 21:07, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- ^ Williams, Jordan (December 22, 2021). "Biden signs bill streamlining emergency support for Capitol Police". The Hill.
- ^ Shabad, Rebecca; Reilly, Ryan J. (July 18, 2023). "Trump says he's received target letter from special counsel Jack Smith in Jan. 6 probe". NBC News. Archived from the original on July 18, 2023. Retrieved July 18, 2023.
- ^ Kunzelman, Michael; Tucker, Eric; Merchant, Nomaan (August 3, 2023). "Trump pleads not guilty to federal felonies related to the 2020 election". PBS NewsHour. WETA. Retrieved August 4, 2023.
- ^ Lowell, Hugo (October 19, 2023). "Trump's ex-lawyer Sidney Powell pleads guilty in Georgia election case". The Guardian. Archived from the original on October 20, 2023. Retrieved October 20, 2023.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
:12
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Heuer, Mike (2025-01-11). "Federal prosecutor Jack Smith resigns ahead of Trump's inauguration". United Press International. Retrieved 2025-01-11.
- ^ Cheney, Kyle; Gerstein, Josh (January 11, 2025). "Jack Smith resigns from DOJ". Politico.
- ^ Wendling, Mike (January 14, 2025). "Trump would have been convicted of election interference, DoJ report says". BBC. Retrieved January 14, 2025.
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