Talk:Jannik Sinner

German pronunciation

The German pronunciation of his name might be [ˈjanɪk ˈzɪnɐ] in the north of Germany, but definitely not in the region where he is from (South Tyrol) and not how he himself pronounces his name. The "S" should not be voiced, and the "i" is much closer to the Italian pronunciation [i] than being [ɪ], especially in "Sinner". The IPA transcription here seems to have just been copied from the Italian WP without critical attitude and detailed knowledge. 2001:4BB8:191:E97B:7449:2F9F:953B:E239 (talk) 13:20, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

That is not correct. The German pronunciation is much closer to his dialect than the Italian pronunciation. 134.0.2.127 (talk) 15:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

His dialect is one in the southern part of the German speaking area. There are clear pronunciation differences to the German speaking areas in the north, but of course also to (standard) Italian. Importantly, those German dialects in the north underlie the standard German pronunciation in Germany (but not for example in Switzerland and Austria) based on the works of linguist Theodor Siebs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Siebs). Where I agree is that the S in "Sinner" should definitely not be voiced in his dialect. I guess that the transcription above does not consider such regional differences. 2001:4BB8:198:94C2:F473:2730:D655:AC3E (talk) 17:07, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Sinner, Italy and the German language

I keep seeing edits (mostly by IPs), which change content regarding Sinner's background, e.g. [1], [2], [3]. Since I and others keep reverting them, here a few remarks:

• Nobody who reads this article could possibly be confused about what citizenship Sinner holds. The fact that he is Italian is stated thrice in the first 5 sentences alone, and is mentioned and implied many more times throughout the article.
• What readers might be wondering about is, though, his background, since many people (at least in the Western world) might notice that neither "Jannik" nor "Sinner" sound particularly Italian. The reason for that is that Sinner grew up in a German-speaking family in an almost exclusivly German-speaking town (at the last census, 95.37% of the population of Sexten declared to be German-speakers) in the predominantly German-speaking province of South Tyrol. I strongly feel, it is worthwhile mentioning at least some of that in the lede section. Changing his "German" background to a "bilingual" background is factually incorrect. It doesn't reflect the linguistic reality of rural South Tyrol and, even more importantly, the linguistic reality of Sinner's background: He himself is quite open about the fact that his Italian was poor at the time he moved to Liguria - not uncommon for German-speakers of the area, by the way.
• The names of his birth place Innichen and his home town Sexten should match what our articles titles use - for good reasons, see WP:NBZ.

Mai-Sachme (talk) 07:40, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Innichen / San Candido

@Aldazuri: First of all, thank for the excellent work you're doing in this article! Regarding the specific point, if we should use Innichen or San Cadido, and conversely Sexten or Sesto: I have reverted your changes for a couple of reasons:

• It's simply not true that "all sources use the Italian name of his hometown and birthplace". German sources surely never do that and, if you try, you can also easily find English sources using Innichen instead [4], [5], [6]... I'm willing to admit, though, that in all likelihood a "majority" of sources uses San Candido, since tennis is a sport organized along the lines of national associations and since the Italian association uses (understandably) San Candido. Anyway, I don't find "most sources about this subject use this name variant" a particularly convincing argument. If somebody expands the article about Sumprabum and finds that most sources about the town prefer Burma, should this usage replace the name Myanmar in this isolated article?
• Our wikipedia articles about Innichen and Sexten use these names for good reasons, see WP:NBZ. Both towns have a large German-speaking majority. If an argument holds water to be used for the town name in the respective article, why shouldn't it be valid in other articles?
• The Ngram Viewer indicates that Innichen is actually more common English usage (unfortunately, we can't do the same search for Sexten/Sesto, because Sesto happens to be a common Italian given name, family name and town name).

Anyway, what could we do? We could use something like "Innichen (San Candido)" or "Innichen/San Candido". But, honestly, I fear this might just encourage people to start silly edit wars, because they want it to be something like "San Candido (Innichen)" or "San Candido/Innichen". Having many South Tyrolean articles on my watchlist, I can tell you there are many unpleasant precedents for that... Cheers, Mai-Sachme (talk) 07:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Just noticed this. I just want to make sure you understand that Google ngram says nothing about Innichen being the more common English usage. It says that in the books Google uses, Innichen is more common. It says nothing about magazines, news, radio, tv, universities, and any other media. It is a Google book search. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:16, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I know that it's impossible to make estimates about "English" in its totality, since we don't have quantifiable data about "TV usage" or "radio usage" and so on. But please note that Wikipedia:Google searches and numbers says that Google Books "provides results that are more likely to be reliable sources", as opposed to raw Google searches, and that's why I wrote the word "indicates" above (I did without that word in the edit summary of my revert, though, that's correct). But for clarity's sake I can surely rephrase it: The Ngram Viewer indicates that Innichen is actually more common in English-language books, which are typically understood as high-quality sources in Wikipedia. Cheers, Mai-Sachme (talk) 10:55, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Agree, let’s keep the German version. Aldazuri (talk) 12:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2024

Sinner is awarded to be Youngest player in history to win the ATP Finals as World No. 1 but Llytton Hewitt is the owner of this accolade. This need to be removed. 2601:140:9000:5AB0:2CC3:A49:BF71:BF0A (talk) 21:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 00:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2024 (2)

With a 2024 total prize money of $4,881,500, he received the highest prize money in ATP history.

This is also wrong. Sinner received highest prize money for an individual sanctioned event but for entire year his prize money falls behind Djokovic's 2015 prize money. 2601:140:9000:5AB0:2CC3:A49:BF71:BF0A (talk) 21:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 00:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2025

The 2025 section needs improved grammar. Citations are needed as well.

"Coming into the Australian Open as the reigning winner, Sinner beat Nicolás Jarry, Tristan Schoolkate, Marcos Giron, Holger Rune and Alex de Minaur on the way to the semifinals. In the semifinals, he defeated Ben Shelton in straight sets." AppreciateALittleBreeze (talk) 14:56, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

 Done Swapped out "Coming into" with "Entering" but that's it. The section appears to have references. Please open a new request to specify the issue you see there. —Sirdog (talk) 01:30, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

@Sirdog - You missed adding a source for the match in question but no worries I got it now :) Thanks for your assistance! AppreciateALittleBreeze (talk) 06:22, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

AppreciateALittleBreeze, not a problem! For future reference if you'd like to ping users you can use the {{User link}} template and do {{u|username-here}}. Cheers! —Sirdog (talk) 23:13, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 January 2025

2001:EE0:4C9E:3520:B0B7:DB48:C5D3:8DB2 (talk) 11:38, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Jannik Sinner is the first player to claim 10 consecutive straight-sets wins over ATP top-10 opponents since they were firstly published in 1973. Jannik Sinner has equalled Bjorn Borg and Jimmy Connors for the most wins in their first 50 matches as World No. 1 in the ATP Rankings (47). Jannik Sinner is the first Italian male or female player to win three Singles Grand Slam titles in tennis history, surpassing Nicola Pietrangeli (two).

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Ultraodan (talk) 12:31, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2025

2001:EE0:4C9E:3520:B0B7:DB48:C5D3:8DB2 (talk) 01:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Jannik Sinner Prize money $39,492,811 9th all-time leader in earnings

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ultraodan (talk) 03:17, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2025

I request that all links (e.g. doping cases in tennis) that refer to Jannik Sinner's page be removed, as he has been officially cleared of all doping allegations and the following points do not apply to him at all:

-Having been convicted by a sports federation (an international governing body, a national federation or a professional league) for illegal

use of performance-enhancing and/or banned drugs

-has publicly admitted such use -has been convicted by a court for the use of illegal performance-enhancing drugs -has been suspended by a sports federation for failure to comply with the prescribed doping tests

The suspension is due to negligence in connection with his team. Framik8964 (talk) 03:18, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made, and formulate your request in the form "please change X to Y". Note that we wouldn't omit coverage of notable doping investigations just because the eventual outcome vindicated the subject. We'd cover them neutrally and note the outcome. As far as I can tell, that's what the article already does. If you disagree, you'll need to be more specific about what change you want made and provide reliable sources that support it. Jfire (talk) 03:26, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Here's a source for Wada stating, that Sinner was not convicted for doping: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/articles/cdxexxl936vo Sajoch (talk) 13:12, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

The article does not claim that he was convicted. It says The decision by the tribunal was to determine that Sinner bore "no fault or negligence" and no period of ineligibility would apply, but that he would forfeit prize money and ranking points earned at the Indian Wells tournament held in March. Based on the BBC source, we could update this to say WADA appealed that decision, and the appeal reached a settlement under which the positive test for clostebol was determined to be due to inadvertent contamination and Sinner was suspended for three months. Jfire (talk) 15:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

I wrote Sinner was NOT convicted for doping. That's what WADA's general counsel Ross Wenzel told the BBC: "This was a case that was a million miles away from doping. The scientific feedback that we received was that this could not be a case of intentional doping, including micro-dosing". Similarly the article about Iga Świątek does not mention doping, but simply that there was a positive test. Also Sinner's article should write about the problematic tests without calling it "doping" - as there was no doping. Sajoch (talk) 22:39, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Again  Not done but I changed the article language to more appropriately fit the situation. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:17, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

By "the article" I was referring to the Wikipedia article, not to the BBC. Apologies if that was unclear. The Wikipedia article does not state that Sinner was convicted of anything, so it is unclear to me what concrete change you want made.

Regarding Sinner's article should write about the problematic tests without calling it "doping" - as there was no doping. The (Wikipedia) article should reflect what reliable sources say. The New York Times article, for example, says Jannik Sinner, the men’s tennis world No 1, has received an anti-doping sanction after twice testing positive for a banned substance. A BBC article refers to "the doping case". I don't see any reason the (Wikipedia) article needs to avoid using the word "doping" completely. Jfire (talk) 23:19, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Sinner was found positive in a test on Clostebol - a forbidden substance. While Clostebol could be used for doping, this was not the case. Two courts and WADA itself have made it clear that Sinner's case has nothing to do with doping. The misinterpretations should not find their way into Wikipedia. Now that we know better, a correction is due, else people reading this article may continue to falsely associate Sinner with doping. Sajoch (talk) 20:15, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

How the word "doping" is used in the article right now is perfect and easily sourced. It is clear what happened and what the ruling was. There is really no way to further soften the landing except to go against sources, and that Wikipedia cannot do. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:23, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

On Iga_Świątek's page there's also no mention of doping. We should treat Sinner the same. Sajoch (talk) 21:29, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

And it doesn't say that here either. Now his had an appeal by the World Anti-Doping Agency, that cannot be removed. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:47, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

I think the following quote from the final WADA statement should appear in the article:

"WADA accepts that Mr. Sinner did not intend to cheat, and that his exposure to clostebol did not provide any performance-enhancing benefit and took place without his knowledge as the result of negligence of members of his entourage." 93.46.106.190 (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2025 (UTC)