Talk:Elliot Page

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Q1: Why does Wikipedia include Elliot Page's deadname?

A1: Wikipedia's guidelines say that we should include the birth name for a living transgender person in the lead sentence only if the person was notable under that name. This is the case for Elliot Page.

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Cam Wilson (2020-12-04). "Wikipedia Handled Elliot Page Coming Out As Trans Pretty Well". Gizmodo. Retrieved 2020-12-04. In a short amount of time, the site's volunteer editors had updated Page's entry to reflect his choice of pronouns, his decision, and set it up so that any search for Page's former name would take to you the current entry with much ado.

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Adding film premiere date

Close to You will have its New York Premiere at NewFest Pride on June 1, 2024. [1] Eternalshrugemoji (talk) 19:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Link-change

Copying from my talkpage a request by an IP who cannot edit here due to protection -- DMacks (talk) 14:35, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Regarding the following sentence at the Page article (which opens its paragraph, and is followed by two citations):

On November 9, 2017, it was announced that Page had been cast in the main role of Vanya/Viktor Hargreeves in the Netflix superhero series The Umbrella Academy.

Change wikilink presentation from: Vanya/Viktor Hargreeves
Change wikilink presentation to: Vanya Hargreeves

Note, this reflects no proposed change to the wikilink destination; it is only a proposed change to its markup piping/presentation.

Justification: Having reviewed the sentence and its two supporting citations, one must conclude that the sentence is both historically inaccurate, and inccurate to its stated sources. The sources presented make no mention of the Viktor character, only the Vanya; thus, the current presentation confounds an early decision in the series with later developments in the series design and production. For historical accuracy, the article should report only what the citations report—that on that 2017 date, Page was cast in the role of Vanya (as the two citations provided indicate no perception on the part of the series writers/showrunner, in that moment, of the character evolving as it eventually would). Then, further on, as the role evolved, the second character name should be introduced, with that relevant date (with citations reporting that change in series design and related casting).

Note, no motivation with regard to gender issues should be perceived here. This edit is simply aimed at WP:VERIFY compliance, and the historical accuracy of the prose—that the WP article text says what the sources say, and accurately reflects the history of the series as it occurred. -- 98.193.42.97 (talk) 14:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Something like "...in the main role of Vanya (later Viktor) Hargreeves" might be a better formulation. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:40, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Readers may not be familiar with the history of the show so listing both names is better. HansVonStuttgart (talk) 09:04, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, as per discussion above. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 01:50, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ellipses

frighteningly talented ... who is able to seem, in the space of a single scene, mature beyond ... years and disarmingly childlike

I understand what's happening here, but "mature beyond years" is not a phrase, and there's no reason to bowdlerize quotes because they use female pronouns. We all know that Page was known as an "actress" named "Ellen Page" and referred to by female pronouns before he transitioned, what are we accomplishing here? john k (talk) 16:10, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The correct style here is mature beyond [his] years. MOS:GENDERID advises editors to Paraphrase, elide, or use square brackets to replace portions of quotations to avoid deadnaming or misgendering; that is what we are accomplishing here. You are correct that this was an oversight (now fixed), but the ham-fisted reference to Page's deadname and accusations of bowdlerizing were not necessary. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk) 16:30, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Should we add Category:Male feminists category?

This discussion has been disrupted by block evasion, ban evasion, or sockpuppetry from the following user:

Manuductive (talk · contribs · block log · spi)

Comments from this user should be excluded from assessments of consensus.

The Category:Feminist artists and Category:Canadian feminists categories were already there before Page came out but I think it makes sense to add this as he is still a feminist even after coming out. He is non-binary as well, but he is still male, so I believe the category applies. Turtletennisfogwheat (talk) 06:38, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is "male" here referring to biological sex or to gender identity? I'm not seeing any trans people on that list (Karl M. Baer was intersex and arguably should have been assigned male at birth) but I could be mistaken. Manuductive (talk) 02:18, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Male" in categories very much refers to Gender identity, and given how Page is male, I do think he should count as a male feminist given how he's continued advocacy for women's rights. Turtletennisfogwheat (talk) 05:42, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Considering everything on this page is referring to him as he/him it is definitely gender identity Depresss (talk) 21:57, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Page came out as gay"

On February 14, 2014, Page, who at that time presented as female, came out as gay (Page being attracted to women) I feel like there has to be a less clunky wording here, even without using the term lesbian. I'm not very familiar with this topic area, so I figure it's worth bringing to the talk page so I don't run into any issues here. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:15, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Gynephilic" and "gynosexual"/"gynesexual" are words that mean 'attracted to women', so perhaps using one of these words and linking to Androphilia and gynephilia might make this clearer? There seems to be some controversy around the difference between these two words, so I'm not sure which one would be most appropriate; compare e.g. https://www.health.com/mind-body/health-diversity-inclusion/gynesexual vs https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-gynosexuality vs https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Gynesexual vs https://feeld.co/ask-feeld/how-to/understanding-gynesexuality-attraction-to-femininity

Solomon Ucko (talk) 03:50, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The repeated hedges are indeed confusing, and choosing our own word like gynophile would be inappropriate. Let's say what we mean: On February 14, 2014, Page came out as a lesbian.[2][3]. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk) 17:02, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I didn't make that change was a small talk page discussion from 2014, but I'm personally fine with the change as there now is a reason that we can't easily respect the exact wording Page used at the time (it's confusing and requires further explanation). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 00:38, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]