Talk:Carro Armato P.43

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Military history: Land vehicles / Technology / European / Italian / World War II Start‑class

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Ugh, what?

"...engine copied from the engine of the Russian T.34, itself adaptation of French diesel engine Hispano-Suiza." T-34 used soviet designed V-2 engines. It's variations were used in BT, KV and IS series of tanks. Only around a 1000 of early T-34(out of total production of 85000) were equiped with different engine - M-17. This was an engine used in TB-3 strategic bomber. And it's a licensed copy of german BMW VI engine. And obviously M-17 wasn't a diesel one. So, how reliable is the rest of info in the article then? 93.125.106.93 (talk) 13:55, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Article Finished

I do believe this article can be considered finish and the unreferenced template removed and the page be locatable though the in-site search function — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.210.92.145 (talk) 02:14, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree and -after adding data and further info- I remove it.--Azul5marino (talk) 15:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

P43 bis designation? (lead)

The lead calls the tank ‘P43 bis,’ but this is an article about the P43. This would be like having the lead of the Char B1 article naming it Char B1 bis/ter. Is there any reason for this?

Also, we have one blueprint often used to cite the designation P43 bis. e.g. https://comandosupremo.com/forums/index.php?attachments/p43-design220181104_08072543-jpg.15/

Does anyone have a higher resolution scan of this blueprint? It feels relevant to the P43 bis section, and would justify the designation.

Speculative content on Italian Panther (P43 bis section)

This section claims there was a mockup of a reduced Panther weighing 35 tons, armed with a 90mm gun, but the photo used to justify this does not match the claim.

We have other perspectives of the photo:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgO-DAmyEZveVH339JLLaFz7s15nF3myG3kTWUP-kWWxGfTnveUVIf-mnet3VN4eZ6UiEhHuYKpPYjBf9GgP6PtyAcowGC2znKYKAOGB2O15ORcwk4T0VKWXO6CZFopg2ZGEXt9k94mn_ZX/s1600/P43.jpg

The label states this is a regular German Panther mockup.

Here we have more photos of the Panther mockup:

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/imported/ww2_italy_italian-panther/eqgGeQT.png

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/imported/ww2_italy_italian-panther/cwIU8iz.jpeg

According to the article (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/italian-panther):

Just two months after the capitulation the Generalinspekteur der Panzertruppen reported by November 1943, that “The firm of Ansaldo-Fossati in Genoa planned to produce a Heavy Tank Model 1943 armed with a Kanone 90/42, weighing 35 tons with 80mm frontal and 60 mm side armor (imitating the Panther). The engine and wooden model are not yet available.”

The mockup wasn't available before capitulation, and therefore the claims that the tank pictured is the so-called "reduced Panther" can't be true. We can tell however that there was a desire to build Panther-like vehicles, whatever these may have looked like.

The article also states:

General Horstig offered General Cavellero the possibility of construction of the German Panther tank in Italy. At 0945 hours that day, Gen. Cavellero formally turned down the offer from Gen. Horstig on the basis that he thought the ‘equivalent’ Italian P40 tank was enough.
(...)
Gen. Cavellero had believed this vehicle to already be in a “programme of construction” only to find out from General Pietro Ago an hour later that “in reality the P40 does not exist” because it was not in production at all.
(...)
Faced now with the reality that Italy wasn’t producing any ‘heavy’ tanks at all, it seems that Gen. Cavellero then rescinded his previous rejection of Gen. Horstig’s offer and agreed to some production although the nature of the deal remains unclear.

This suggests Panthers were being considered for production, from which the wooden mockups may have originated.

However, the article says production of Panthers was not realistic, and instead engines were bought for the P40.

Hitler had ordered, a month earlier, in January 1943, that Panther production was to take place in Italy without any licence fee payable.
(...)
From the Italian end though it was clear that due to a complete change in manufacturing that production of Panthers ‘from scratch’ could not start in Italy before 1945.
(...)
Gen. Cavellero subsequently contacted Gen. Von Horstig about the sale of Maybach engines for the P40 (...)

Considering this, the section's claim about the P35.43 (which appears to also be an informal designation as there were no plans found) using a copied T-34 V2 engine sounds very dubious.

Bearing in mind contracts had already been exchanged for Maybach engine production in Italy it is logical to assume that some or all of the engines would also be manufactured in Italy and be Maybachs.
(...)
FIAT-SPA produced their Model 344 700 hp engine, which was essentially a straight copy of the (Maybach) HL-230 rather than a license-built version.

Italy already had a production of Maybach engines, and wouldn't have had any need to copy the entire T-34 engine from scratch, which would have also had lower horsepower. Laifs (talk) 20:56, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]