This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Israeli war crimes article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of crime and criminal biography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights
This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related
You are an administrator, so you may disregard the message below.
You are seeing this because of the limitations of {{If extended confirmed}} and {{If administrator}}. You can hide this message box by adding the following to a new line of your common.css page:
.ECR-edit-request-warning{display:none;}
Stop: You may only use this page to create an edit request
This page is related to a topic subject to the extended-confirmed restriction. You are not an extended-confirmed user, so you must not edit or discuss this topic anywhere on Wikipedia except to make an edit request. (Additional details are in the message box just below this one.)
The following restrictions apply to everyone editing this article:
All participants in formal discussions (RfCs, RMs, etc) within the area of conflict are urged to keep their comments concise, and are limited to 1,000 words per discussion. Citations and quotations (whether from sources, Wikipedia articles, Wikipedia discussions, or elsewhere) do not count toward the word limit.
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours (except in limited circumstances)
You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
The pronoun "They" in the citation: "Indeed, Madam Congresswoman. We have to draw a line... They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world."[309] , refers to Hamas, not to the Gaza population. It is obvious in the source, not in the article. 85.201.188.118 (talk) 05:31, 14 January 2025 (UTC) Era[reply]
I disagree with your interpretation. The actions of the Israeli government, which Human Rights Watch found sufficient basis in which to form their genocide accusation, involved cutting off water to a population sufficient to cause mass death, suffering, pain, disease, and misery. Add some common sense: were they planning to give water and batteries to the civilians of Gaza but not Hamas? entropyandvodka | talk11:32, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
When reading the full citation, I find it more likely that Katz refers to Hamas than to the Gaza population, just as 85.201.188.118 says. The actions of the Israeli government that entropyandvodka refers to is not relevant, because it is not up to us to conclude who is meant by "they". I made the citation much longer, so that every reader can decide for themselves. Lova Falk (talk) 10:10, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Reading the longer quotation, it's still completely ambiguous (grammatically speaking, it's actually more likely that "they" refers to the last mentioned referent, "[a]ll the civilian population in [G]aza"), and possibly even deliberately phrased that way. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:19, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also note that Katz himself refers to Hamas using the pronoun "it", not "they", which (in addition to entropyandvodka's argument) further complicates the assumption that "they" later should refer to Hamas as well. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:21, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That said, it's also very much possible that, ironically just as Israel's defenders often accuse Israel's critics of conflating Israel and Jews, Katz (much like, apparently, Herzog, mentioned immediately before) doesn't think of Hamas and the Palestinians of Gaza as fully distinct groups, not least given that support for Hamas among Gazans is still high. (Incidentally, support for Israel is still high among Jews, though far from universal, and declining especially in young American Jews.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:44, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]