Talk:2025 Trump–Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting

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On 28 February 2025, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy meeting to 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 28 February 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Rough consensus the proposed title better meets WP:CRITERIA, in particular WP:PRECISE. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 22:08, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2025 Trump–Zelenskyy meeting → 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting – This article should be renamed to distinguish it from other meetings with Trump and Zelenskyy such as the phone calls on February 12 and February 13, 2025.[1] GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 22:16, 28 February 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 06:08, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Since those don't have WP articles, I don't see a need to disambiguate. Cremastra (talk) 23:16, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per comments below. Cremastra (talk) 00:46, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:CRITERIA - It is more natural, recognizable, and precise. — dain omite 23:20, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Would a phone call typically be described as a meeting? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:19, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I don't think so. Unless another in-person meeting happens this year with Trump and Zelenskyy, I don't see a need to change the name. YourContrition (talk) 00:22, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Cambridge dictionary defines a meeting as being:

a planned occasion when people come together, either in person or online (= using the internet), to discuss something:
— [2]

It says in this definition that a meeting does not have to be in person, so a phone call could be described as a meeting. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 02:29, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support Even if there is no other meeting between Zelenskyy and Trump in 2025, the new title still makes it clearer. The goal of the title isn't just being unambiguous, and I think the new title describes the event better. Sinus46 (talk) 15:40, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Redundant as it has 2025 in it already, though would support "argument" in the title. Bremps... 00:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Meetings are commonly understood to mean in-person meetings. Phone calls are not meetings. With the way this meeting went, it seems unlikely that another meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy will take place, and so there is no need to disambiguate this. JasonMacker (talk) 00:41, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:CRITERIA I agree --Captain Almighty Nutz^{(Contact me EMail Me Contribs)} 00:44, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Any thoughts on "debate", "argument", "exchange", "confrontation", etc. in the title? Meeting is technically correct but conjures a far less tense scene than what happened. Bremps... 01:12, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think that "meeting" is more neutral and therefore should be kept per WP:NPOV. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 01:22, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Support - The place where the conversation took place makes all the difference. Pristino (talk)

Change to 2025 visit by Volodymyr Zelenskyy to the United States to avoid "meeting" term ambiguity and for WP:CONSISTENTcy with 2022 visit by Volodymyr Zelenskyy to the United States, 2023 visit by Volodymyr Zelenskyy to the United Kingdom, etc. DecafPotato (talk) 04:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@DecafPotato I guess it is because this article is about the meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy and not his visit to the United States overall. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 11:26, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME, "oval office meeting" has been used in enough news and reports about this meeting that it arguably makes a big difference in recognizing the specific event in question, as many people might look for it with only that as their criteria (even if seemingly unnecessary, it helps with discovery and that is the point of WP:COMMONNAME). Adding "oval office" is neutral, not ambiguous, and helps clarify the specific event for anyone who might be otherwise unsure. Isoid (talk) 05:26, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Only two months have passed in 2025; further Oval Office meetings between the presidents are possible this year. The proposed new title (2025 Trump–Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting) would then be inadequate. We should wait and see how events unfold during the year. Meanwhile, the existing title is sufficient and there is no pressure, yet, to change it. Spideog (talk) 05:28, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support per @Pristino Asigooo (talk) 12:27, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhat Support Only somewhat because I do think it's likely there will be more meetings, potentially even in the Oval as User:Spideog points out. I don't think it's WP:CRYSTAL to have a more forward-friendly naming convention. Does anyone have examples of how these things are done in other articles? Agree on keeping "Meeting" to be neutral rather than changing to argument or something, even though it was definitely contentious. Lincoln2020 (talk) 16:57, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support as "meeting" is very imprecise and could refer to one of many events Jokullmusic 03:58, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support - per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:PRECISE, and WP:CRITERIA. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 06:10, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Current title is clear and concise. In the event there is another notable bilateral meeting later in the year, adding “February” would be the best way to distinguish.

Rafts of Calm (talk) 22:56, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please replace your curly quotations with straight quotations per MOS:CURLY. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 22:58, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Noted, thanks. Rafts of Calm (talk) 12:56, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Oppose RAIHAN ⚡ Got something to say? 22:52, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support 2025 has only been 2.5 months old. They might meet more number of times this year. It will be better to change the title now itself to avoid confusion in future.

Pur 0 0 (talk) 11:18, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support, because this is a specific meeting, not any meeting, and "2025" isn't specific enough. Although with what's said above, about this not being confined to the Oval Office, I'd support White House instead. Egezort (talk) 13:09, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose There could be more meetings later in the year and also the re title is still vague for people to understand. Rager7 (talk) 19:53, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support Good disambiguation. If another such meeting passes GNG for an article in 2025, simply disambiguate by month. DrewieStewie (talk) 05:30, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Various media outlets are already referring to the meeting in this way. Also, it would be useful to emphasize the meeting's location from the start. — Sundostund mppria ^{(talk / contribs)} 09:43, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Soft support the place is part of the "highlight" Braganza (talk) 17:45, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support - The title has to be specific. We can be sure at this moment that this is not going to be their only meeting this year. GenuineArt (talk) 06:12, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support - the title does need to be more specific and if further Trump-Zelenskyy meetings take place they might not be in the Oval Office or even in the USA so the change is required for future disambiguation. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:16, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Rafts of Calm - clear title, and distinguished from the two phone calls. Jay 💬 09:50, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't think the proposed name is neutral, unless they met again this year, but I would propose "February 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy meeting"--A1Cafel (talk) 13:29, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support per WP:COMMONNAME, re: media use of "oval office meeting".Oceanflynn (talk) 17:25, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, can you provide links to such sources to help other editors reading this discussion? Thanks, Cremastra (talk) 20:48, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Ukraine, WikiProject Politics, and WikiProject Presidents of the United States/Donald Trump task force have been notified of this discussion. Sophisticatedevening ^(talk) 17:35, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I believe "February 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy meeting" or "2025 Trump–Zelenskyy White House meeting" would be better than "Oval Office", but I don't think a move is necessary at all since it's been their only in person meeting so far this year and a longer name is not necessary. Reywas92^Talk 21:49, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is no other article regarding a particular Trump-Zelenskyy meeting in 2025, therefore the current title is the most appropriate. gbrading (ταlκ) 22:24, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support It is a good pre-emptive move to clarify now rather than wait for further meetings to take place this year to then go ahead to edit it anyways. They are 2 figureheads who are inevitably going to meet a few more times in 2025. If Trump and Zelenskyy only meet/communicate this once in the whole of 2025 I will eat pidgeon. 4ugustsappho (talk) 23:59, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- There is nothing to prevent a subsequent meeting taking place at the Oval Office. For your stated goal to work, you'll have to include "February" in the title. 2A02:8071:184:4E80:0:0:0:EAC0 (talk) 09:49, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  This can be ammended ad hoc, as and when, at a later date, if need arises Flarehayr (talk) 11:59, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - the meeting started outside the Oval Office, renaming would restrict the topic to a part of the meeting. Rudolf Ziegler (talk) 21:05, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Oval Office portion of the meeting was what became particularly notable though. DrewieStewie (talk) 21:30, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject International relations, WikiProject Presidents of the United States, WikiProject United States, and WikiProject Politics/American politics have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 06:13, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support - clear reasoning for the specification Flarehayr (talk) 12:01, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

further explanation from my above*- there have been several meetings between Zelensky and Trump this year, between administrations etc. there are more happening currently, behind closed doors etc. and one of the key reasons behind the creation of this article is the televised Oval Office nature of the meeting, that became politically important and newsworthy (and therefore Wiki-worthy) Flarehayr (talk) 12:02, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support Many other meetings may happen in the future between Trump and Zelensky, and I’m not sure none have already happened. Waited2seconds (talk) 05:14, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wait This is only the first meeting that they have had this year. What if they have another meeting? We don't know! But we also don't know if they just.. wont have another meeting! Simply put, its best to wait until there is another meeting between the two before we differentiate. The idea presented by DecafPotato earlier about changing to to be a "visit" is also favorable. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 01:06, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.