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Talk:2021 United Kingdom census

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Correcting Sentence

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Not sure what the sentence is meant to mean, but it doesnt make sense and needs to be corrected.

" Under the Census Act 1920, it is for the United Kingdom Government and Parliament to determine whether the 2021 Census for England and Wales. "

Whether the 2011 census what? Bgresh (talk) 13:38, 20 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

checkY Done. used words from citation to clarify, Simples. Thanks! Tmol42 (talk) 14:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Scotland

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This article should not be called "2021 United Kingdom census" - it should be called "2021 census in England, Northern Ireland and Wales" or similar. All the Scotland-related elements should be removed (except perhaps a cursory reference) to a separate page called "2022 census in Scotland" or similar. (I note that the page on the Irish census of 2011 is called "Census of Ireland 2011" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Ireland_2011).)

The fact that the 3 UK censuses were originally intended to be held in 2021 is irrelevant - they are not now being so.

The page on the 2021 London mayoral election (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_London_mayoral_election) isn't still called 2020 London mayoral election, even though that's what it originally was. Kennethmac2000 (talk) 13:16, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Cwmcafit (talk) 18:49, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree. It's a UK-wide census, just because Scotland decided to move it to 2022, that doesn't mean we have to make a separate article. LAst time I checked, Scotland is still part of the UK. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:16, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
However, I would support a move to 2021 and 2022 United Kingdom census, as per ONS. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:18, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Joseph2302. As I think it makes sense to clarify the Scotland issue before census day in the rest of the UK, as their may be some disagreement about whether this is a page for a past or future event after that point, I will move the article to his suggested name on Saturday evening if their are no objections before then. Llewee (talk) 21:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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The legal challenge to the "what is your sex" question affects England, Wales & Northern Ireland as per [1], [2]. So surely it should be in a separate section, rather than in the England and Wales section? Joseph2302 (talk) 21:50, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is quite complicated. I thought it was only England and Wales because it only mentioned ONS and not NISRA, and does the High Court in England and Wales have administration over NI? But seeing this I now agree with you [3], it should be moved to the main section and say that it applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland. ONS and the NISRA are almost identical.Cwmcafit (talk) 12:54, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 March 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: There is no consensus what title to use. Editors do not agree, and have not mustered conclusive evidence, which title is the WP:COMMONNAME and/or otherwise meets the article title criteria. !Votes are split evenly between support and oppose. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 01:21, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]


2021 United Kingdom census → 2021 and 2022 United Kingdom census – In Scotland, it is being held in 2022, whereas in the rest of the UK, it's in 2021. It is therefore the same census, but just held in different years. Note that the ONS now uses 2021 and 2022. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:35, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Confusing

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I've tagged the article as confusing, because it has sections on Northern Ireland and Scotland but not England and Wales, and it's unclear which parts of the "Background" section are about the whole of the UK and which parts only apply to England and Wales. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:57, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Results section

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In the 'Results' section a Professor Biggs, on Muslim transgender sexual orientation statistics is quoted as follows: "I’m 99 per cent sure that misinterpretation has had a significant impact in inflating the numbers."

I wryly note that the 'Results' section suffers a very similar problem given that 1/3 of it deals with transgender issues when only 0.5% of the population identify as such.

Do we really need his opinion and the ONS reply etc. to it instead of just quoting the figures? The phrase 'undue weight' springs to mind... 88.110.216.57 (talk) 16:30, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There has been a fair amount of news coverage of this aspect, and I am inclined to leave the details in the article. Sweet6970 (talk) 20:22, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 March 2025

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2021 United Kingdom census → 2021 and 2022 United Kingdom censuses – 1. There was not a single United Kingdom census - there were three. However, even if we conflate the England and Wales and Northern Ireland censuses because they were held on the same day, the census in Scotland was clearly a different event. 2. The Scottish census is referred to in the vast majority of sources as the 2022 census. Eg: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66802440 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c897zwwz29yo https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/publication/2022-census-in-scotland/pages/2/ Kennethmac2000 (talk) 19:43, 15 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 12:50, 30 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 04:03, 14 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 02:12, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rafts of Calm (talk) 20:09, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This wouldn’t be my first choice, as I think 2021-22 implies a continuous event spread over two years (a bit like referring to the 2021-22 tax year), when in fact there were three distinct censuses, with 364 days between the first two and the last one. That said, this suggestion includes the key points that two different years were involved, and that there were multiple censuses, so it is definitely better than the current title. If we were to go with this, I would, however, propose 2022 rather than 22 - I always think it’s clearer to write out years in full.
In summary, my order of preference would be:
  1. 2021 and 2022 United Kingdom censuses
  2. 2021–2022 United Kingdom censuses
  3. 2021–22 United Kingdom censuses
Kennethmac2000 (talk) 15:28, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense, happy to go with your proposal 1 or your proposal 2. Rafts of Calm (talk) 19:07, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to 2021–22 United Kingdom censuses as more faithful to our naming standard. GenuineArt (talk) 16:46, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've scoured the various English-language Wikipedia naming conventions pages, and I can't find any naming standard which states that the second year should be stated in two-digit form. This seems to be more of a cultural preference, particularly in North America and Australia. However, the English-language Wikipedia is tolerant of different preferences in the English-speaking world, particularly when it comes to things like dates.
    In this particular case, I think the hyphenated form is incorrect anyway, as there were not a series of censuses running more or less continuously for the period 2021-2022 - there were entirely separate censuses in 2021 and 2022, with a gap of almost one year in between them.
    That said, as mentioned above, I could live with "2021–22 United Kingdom censuses" as better than the current name.
    In summary:
    • My first preference is "2021 and 2022 United Kingdom censuses".
    • If there is not deemed to be consensus for my first preference, then my second preference is "2021–2022 United Kingdom censuses".
    • If there is not deemed to be consensus for either my first or second preferences, then my third preference is "2021–22 United Kingdom censuses".
    Kennethmac2000 (talk) 10:33, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    In fact, MOS:DATERANGE supports your position of writing the years in full. Rafts of Calm (talk) 18:15, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose plural. Looks the previous 2011 United Kingdom census was also technically multiple censuses, but we use the singular. Vpab15 (talk) 10:08, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Why? Is this reflecting actual English-language Wikipedia standards/convention, or simply a bias on the part of certain (British) people who don't really like the fact that there are three separate censuses and who would prefer that there was a single, united, great British census? Kennethmac2000 (talk) 11:51, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, this is a good point. The 2011 census comprises multiple censuses but are branded as one census and are much a coordinated excecise across the UK. However, in the case of 2021 and 2022, I think it is justifiable to use the plural in the title. Rafts of Calm (talk) 12:31, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    On the substantive point itself, is your proposal that the article would be called "2021 and 2022 United Kingdom census"? Kennethmac2000 (talk) 11:53, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    My preference would be "2021–2022 United Kingdom census". Per WP:CONSISTENT, it should be singular like the previous censuses. I wouldn't necessarily oppose a move request to change all UK census articles to plural (at least those that are actually multiple censuses), but there is no reason to have only this title as plural. Vpab15 (talk) 18:34, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Summarizing the discussion so far, it seems that the suggestion for which there is the highest amount of support is 2021–2022 United Kingdom censuses.
Synthesizing key parts of the discussion:
  1. The census held in Scotland in 2022 was and is referred to as the “2022 census” and not the “2021 census” (so was not like the 2020 Olympics and Paralympics that were held in 2021 but still referred to using the year 2020).
  2. There were actually strictly speaking three censuses in the UK - one in England and Wales, one in Northern Ireland, and one in Scotland. However, if we are to adopt the previous practice of referring to censuses held in the UK on the same day as a single census, there were still two separate censuses - the ‘one’ in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, and the separate one in Scotland. Therefore, the plural is justified in this case without having to rename all of the older articles.
PS My personal preference would still be that we use 2021 and 2022 at the start of the name, but if some feel that this is too wordy, I am happy to go with 2021-2022 as mentioned above. Even 2021-22 would be acceptable to me, but it seems that, of those of us that support mentioning both years, there is broad support for writing out 2021 and 2022 in full. Kennethmac2000 (talk) 15:12, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:NOTVOTE, so the number of supports and opposes is usually not the only criteria to determine outcome. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 18:52, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have notified several wikiprojects, including UK, England and Scotland to hopefully help generate more discussion Coldupnorth (talk) 12:35, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Quite. However, so far there is only one outright oppose, from Amakaru, who seems to have acknowledged in a subsequent comment that his grounds for said opposition were incorrect.
There is some debate about whether the article title should be singular or plural, but no-one now seems to be debating the fact that it is incorrect to refer to Scotland’s 2022 census as forming part of a “2021” census.
An interesting twist has emerged in that some who were previously sceptical are now saying, “Well, if these were two separate censuses, why aren’t we splitting the article into two separate articles?” I would 100% support splitting the article, but that would be a lot more work and I’m not sure who if anyone is offering to do that work.
Renaming the page to 2021 and 2022 United Kingdom censuses or 2021–2022 United Kingdom censuses would seem to be a pragmatic first step which wouldn’t preclude subsequent splitting of the article. Kennethmac2000 (talk) 14:49, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support 2021–2022 United Kingdom censuses or "census" per above as the Scottish one is described and branded differently, as it obviously did not happen in 2021 for Scotland and it does have comparability issues with the others. Although it is really described to the point 2022 Scotland census may be a thing. Unless this is a one-off and all is well in 2031. It is merely UK-wide until now by convention and practicality, but the powers are devolved. DankJae 16:40, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • To whoever is closing this move request, I am content that we move to 2021–2022 United Kingdom censuses, rather than my original proposal of 2021 and 2022 United Kingdom censuses, since it seems that there is the broadest consensus for that. Kennethmac2000 (talk) 15:48, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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