Talk:Cognitive disengagement syndrome

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Requested move 12 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. History6042 (talk) 12:02, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(non-admin closure)

Sluggish cognitive tempo → Cognitive disengagement syndrome – The article that introduced the name "cognitive disengagement syndrome" announced it as a consensus change in terminology of an international work group that convened in 2021. [1] Since then, "cognitive disengagement syndrome" has been seeing adoption as a replacement in the literature. 130.126.255.178 (talk) 18:26, 12 August 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. estar8806 (talk) ★ 15:10, 22 August 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 08:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If done, please use sentence case (Cognitive disengagement syndrome). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:33, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with BarrelProof that it should not be capped. But it also feels too soon; not sure. Dicklyon (talk) 05:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I fully support this change. The aspect of "tempo" connotes retardation and is not relevant to the phenotype, which is rather a disorder of attention and fatigue. "SCT" patients do not feel represented by the label, which limits its ability to make traction as a diagnosis. First sentence should read, "Cognitive disengagement syndrome or sluggish cognitive tempo..." and then default to the former term throughout. Dogeatgod888 (talk) 16:22, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. It should be "Cognitive disengagement syndrome" first. 87.104.32.202 (talk) 15:19, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree with the name-change, I think the article starts out with a too strong statement about CDS being different from ADHD. Not everyone agrees with that. 87.104.32.202 (talk) 15:22, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

While not everyone agrees that CDS is different from ADHD, it has a separate set of symptoms from ADHD. Including that CDS is distinct from ADHD clearly highlights this which demonstrates the importance for the condition to be recognised. 61.68.158.49 (talk) 02:58, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

agree with BarrelProof--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:35, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment- requesting more policy and evidence based comments--estar8806 (talk) ★ 15:10, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Psychology has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 08:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Medicine has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 08:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Autism has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 08:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

ICD-10 or blue book

Similarly, ICD-10, the medical diagnostic manual, has no diagnosis code for SCT. (my emphasis) Probably splitting hairs but... ICD-10 is not a diagnostic manual. It's a classification system used to generate statistical data. Are we instead referring to The ICD-10 Classification of Mental and Behavioural Disorders, Clinical descriptions and diagnostic guidelines here? Whilst both use the same codes; ICD-10's Chapter V only has glossary terms, it's the blue book that has the diagnostic criteria. I feel that if we are referring to the blue book, it's worth clarifying as such—even if that's just a wikilink to Medical classification#Derived classifications. Little pob (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"It has reached the threshold of evidence and recognition as a distinct syndrome." - undue weight?

From the lede: "It has reached the threshold of evidence and recognition as a distinct syndrome.^[1]"

The source here passes the verifiability check, and the sentence does not appear to be WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH, however I do think it's on the precipice of WP:UNDUE to base such a claim off a single source. If we cannot find additional sources I would be in favor of rewording it to something along the lines of "It has reached the threshold of evidence and recognition as a distinct syndrome according to the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry". Tdmurlock (talk) 21:37, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging the user who made the edit: @Димитрий Улянов Иванов Tdmurlock (talk) 21:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for writing. I disagree as it is an international scientific consensus which also reviews the established scientific literature findings attesting their conclusion; thus I don't think that violates WP:UNDUE, at least from my understanding (I may be wrong). In fact, it was concluded: "To experts in the field, it is evident that CDS has reached the threshold of recognition as a distinct syndrome. Still, there is much more work to be done in further clarifying its nature, etiologies, demographic factors, relations to other psychopathologies, and linkages to specific domains of functional impairment. Many directions remain ripe for future study. Investigators are needed with interests and expertise spanning basic, clinical, and translational research to advance our understanding of CDS and to improve the lives of individuals with this unique syndrome." Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 22:10, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Becker, Stephen P.; Willcutt, Erik G.; Leopold, Daniel R.; Fredrick, Joseph W.; Smith, Zoe R.; Jacobson, Lisa A.; Burns, G. Leonard; Mayes, Susan D.; Waschbusch, Daniel A.; Froehlich, Tanya E.; McBurnett, Keith; Servera, Mateu; Barkley, Russell A. (June 2023). "Report of a Work Group on Sluggish Cognitive Tempo: Key Research Directions and a Consensus Change in Terminology to Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome (CDS)". Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. 62 (6): 629–645. doi:10.1016/j.jaac.2022.07.821. ISSN 0890-8567. PMC 9943858. PMID 36007816.

Thyroid causing similar symptoms

Hello, @Димитрий Улянов Иванов:, in this edit you removed

Other medical conditions, such as thyroid problems, may cause the same symptoms.

But, if I'm reading this correctly, that sentence isn't saying they're the same or that thyroid problems can cause SGT/CDS, I read it as they have similar symptoms and thus should be considered in a differential diagnosis. Am I reading that wrong or should that remain, perhaps just rephrased? Kimen8 (talk) 12:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, your understanding is perfectly correct. The consensus statement shows that CDS does form unique symptom dimensions that do not overlap completely with any other condition, from my understanding at least. For example, some, but not all, of its inattention symptoms may overlap with ADHD.

So I think it should be rephrased; how about to say that its symptoms partially overlap with other conditions (e.g., ADHD, depression, anxiety etc), although it is itself a distinct construct/syndrome? Sorry for my misreading and thanks for checking on that issue. Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 12:59, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Something like that. My go at it would be more like (replace CDS/SGT with whatever you're calling it in the article):

Although some symptoms (e.g., ADHD, depression, anxiety) of a thyroid disorder are shared with CDS/SGT, they are distinct conditions and are managed differently.

This captures that (1) they may appear superficially similar, but (2) are not the same, and (3) treatment differs.

Kimen8 (talk) 13:05, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, Very good. Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 13:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DSM copyright issues

Lova Falk I noticed you added a copyright tag to this article. I am tempted to revert this but I'm tagging WhatamIdoing since I believe they created the DSM copyright template. Diagnostic criteria itself is not copyrightable meaning diagnostic criteria can be added word for word to an article (although that doesn't always mean it should be). From my understanding the DSM copyright tag is meant to be used when people copy and paste large chunks of paragraphs from the DSM and not just bullet points. Also make sure when you are launching a copyright investigation you do so with an appropriate link and not just "http://DSM-5" IntentionallyDense ^(Contribs) 21:15, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Diagnostic criteria are sometimes copyrightable and sometimes not. A short, simple list of bare facts like "has symptoms A and B, plus X result on Y test" is probably not copyrightable. The longer/more complex the list, and the more creative/detailed the descriptions in the list, the more likely it is to be a copyrightable text. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:30, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for clarifying. I think if we compare the source (red) and article (green) it is clear there is no copyright issues.

Often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, at work, or during other activities vs gives no close attention to details

Often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities vs has trouble holding attention on tasks etc...

You could make an argument for WP:CLOP here but again that's to be somewhat expected with a bullet point list of diagnostic criteria. With that in mind I am going to be bold and revert this change. IntentionallyDense ^(Contribs) 22:43, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also side note I did make some changes to the text, however if people disagree with me feel free to revert my changes and I will drop it as this is not an opinion I am overly invested in. IntentionallyDense ^(Contribs) 22:56, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Becker, Stephen P.; Willcutt, Erik G.; Leopold, Daniel R.; Fredrick, Joseph W.; Smith, Zoe R.; Jacobson, Lisa A.; Burns, G. Leonard; Mayes, Susan D.; Waschbusch, Daniel A.; Froehlich, Tanya E.; McBurnett, Keith; Servera, Mateu; Barkley, Russell A. (June 2023). "Report of a Work Group on Sluggish Cognitive Tempo: Key Research Directions and a Consensus Change in Terminology to Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome (CDS)". Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. 62 (6): 629–645. doi:10.1016/j.jaac.2022.07.821. ISSN 0890-8567. PMC 9943858. PMID 36007816.

[1]