Talk:Killing of Yuval Kestelman

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Killing of Yuval Kestelman article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Stop: You may only use this page to create an edit request

This page is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, a restricted topic. You are not an extended-confirmed user, so you must not edit or discuss this topic anywhere on Wikipedia except to make an edit request. (Additional details are in the message box just below this one.)

Administrators may disregard the above message.
You are seeing this because of the limitations of {{If extended confirmed}} and {{If administrator}}. You can hide this message box by adding the following to a new line of your common.css page: .ECR-edit-request-warning { display: none; }

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic
All participants in formal discussions (RfCs, RMs, etc) within the area of conflict are urged to keep their comments concise, and are limited to 1,000 words per discussion. Citations and quotations (whether from sources, Wikipedia articles, Wikipedia discussions, or elsewhere) do not count toward the word limit.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Human rights Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Israel Palestine Collaboration

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration, a collaborative, bipartisan effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. For guidelines and a participants list see the project page. See also {{Palestine-Israel enforcement}}, the ArbCom-authorized discretionary sanctions, the log of blocks and bans, and Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars. You can discuss the project at its talk page.Israel Palestine CollaborationWikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationTemplate:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationIsrael Palestine Collaboration

Law Enforcement Low‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please Join, Create, and Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Military history: Middle East / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Palestine Low‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Nice work

North8000 (talk) 19:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extrajudicial killings/war crimes

@XTheBedrockX: a soldier repeatedly and intentionally shooting a surrendering civilian under the (false) impression that he was a terrorist is an extrajudicial killing. It can be, but it isn't automatically. Similarly with the war crimes category - neither of these are uncontroversial categories (war crime allegations aren't even mentioned in the article) so per WP:CATPOV we shouldn't be using them. BilledMammal (talk) 21:27, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BilledMammal remove the war crimes category if you want, but no evidence has been provided on how this is not an extrajudicial killing. A soldier shooting and killing a civilian without due process is still clearly illegal. XTheBedrockX (talk) 21:30, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's more complicated than that - and in this context, where nobody has yet been convicted of a crime, it violates both WP:CATPOV and WP:BLPCRIME to say this was an extrajudicial killing - an illegal killing. BilledMammal (talk) 21:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request: correct "quote" from December 5 hearing judge

Currently, the article reads (in Killing_of_Yuval_Kestleman#Investigation): On the morning of December 5 at a hearing, the presiding judge, Lieutenant Colonel Toby Hart, ruled that "the suspect [Freija] was fired unlawfully, not out of operational necessity, but out of frivolity regarding the possilibility of someone's death who no longer posed any danger", citing https://www.makorrishon.co.il/news/705547/.

The source is in Hebrew, so it is inappropriate to quote as if it was English. This translation is also incorrect: the article does not state that Freija was fired unlawfully, rather that he fired unlawfully.

Please adjust the quote accordingly and remove the quotation marks. 68.161.207.75 (talk) 06:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yuval's last name is KESTELMAN

You can check his Facebook, or take my word for it, since I'm his brother... 77.126.30.246 (talk) 18:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His Fb page has Yuval Kestelman (יובל קסטלמן). Mcljlm (talk) 14:21, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The name is spelled wrong

The name is Yuval Kestelman 2A06:C701:9DAA:B100:CF30:FE3A:D81A:EC20 (talk) 11:54, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

His Fb page has Yuval Kestelman (יובל קסטלמן). Mcljlm (talk) 15:11, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 April 2025

This edit request to Killing of Yuval Castleman has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change Yuval's last name in the title and article from "Castleman" to "Kestelman" - his real last name. sourse: https://www.facebook.com/YKESTELMAN Also, you can see the correct Last Name in many articles. Best, Shaked Kestelman 147.237.70.108 (talk) 11:21, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Shaked. My guess is that you are a relative to Yuval, and I am sorry for your loss. About your request: we cannot simply change the title of an article. It is called moving an article, and would require a request to move. I checked the sources used in the article - none of them use "Kestelman". If you give me better sources than facebook, I will make this request for you. Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 05:40, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A Google search finds a number of quality sources that use “Kestelman”, including BBC, Australia Broadcasting Corp, and Haaretz. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 06:48, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done It is already done! That was fast! Lova Falk (talk) 09:31, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]