Talk:American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property

VfD debate

This article has been kept following this VFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 1 July 2005 10:59 (UTC)

Objectivity please

Whoever edits this page - please at least TRY to be a little OBJECTIVE! When an article starts off quoting "ex-members" who verify "facts", it sounds like a biased agenda to start with. What person is ever objective about something/someone with which they have parted ways? And how serious is it when someone claims to speak on behalf of millions of Catholics around the world - whether for or against? The best practice for analysis is drawn from what an organization says about itself (without childishly using "claims" this or "claims" that to cast doubt on the most basic things). Just stick to the facts of what the organization IS, does, and says about itself, and be sure to get those right (the part on the Revolution indicated a poor understanding of basic details in RCR). I have attempted to clean it up a bit. As it was, it was an article against the organization rather than about it. Lastly - why include a large section about people (Tradition in Action) whose members may have at one time been associated but no longer have anything to do with the organization? Give them a completely separate space so they aren't confused with this organization. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.14.24 (talk • contribs) 21:59, 19 November 2006‎ (UTC)

Dated material

The paragraph talking about TFP Student Action specifies as their most recent activity events from 2009. Either that is not true, or we should be reporting on their demise. (The paragraph after that sources a claim about a school offering "traditional Catholic education" to the school itself; either we need a third-party source, or we need to cast it as being in the school's voice rather than ours.) -- Nat Gertler (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Expansion, ideology, differences from mainstream Roman Catholicism, similarities with other Traditionalist Catholic groups

I think the entry could be expanded to explain better how the American TFP, which tends to attract the interest and support of many orthodox Roman Catholics, because of their strong social conservatism and activism, and promotion of Catholic tradition, is at odds, in several ways, with mainstream Roman Catholicism. Like the original Brazilian TFP, the American TFP rejects and has a very negative view of the Vatican Council II, which they claim introduced liberalism in the Church, and to be against the previous order of the Church. This makes them similar to FSSPX, however they claim to be be full communion with the Church, despite the fact that they tend to quote mostly the pre-Vatican Council II popes and documents, and to ignore often those who came after that event. They also reject ecumenism, interfaith dialogue and environmentalism. An organization with the same origin, but which fully accepts the Vatican Council II are the Heralds of the Gospel. I think the entry can be improved and expanded to show these facts.Mistico Dois (talk) 02:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

"the American TFP rejects and has a very negative view of the Vatican Council II" Isn't it obvious? Traditionalist Catholicism in general rejects the decisions of the Second Vatican Council, mostly rejects efforts towards ecumenism, and defines "traditionalist" as returning to the status quo of the Roman Catholic Church in the 1950s (at the latest). Dimadick (talk) 15:07, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

This is not a forum. I would respectfully suggest that people should learn better about the concepts we are dealing in here before posting. The Vatican Council II official documents state that the Traditional Latin Mass is the official mass of the Catholic Church, with the possibility of using the vernacular. It was this that led to the development of the Novus Ordus Mass. Since the Vatican Council II there have been Catholic groups who have continuously celebrated the TLM, in full communion with Rome. The FSSP, the ICKSP, all celebrate the TLM, and accept the Vatican Council II, for example. However this is not the case of the FSSPX, who has rejected the Vatican Council II and has been in a irregular situation in the Church, since the lifting of the excommuncations for the Ecône consecrations that took place in 1988, by Pope Benedict XVI, in 2009. The American Society for the Defense of TFP does have indeed similarities with FSSPX, for their religious rejection of the Vatican Council II, but with differences. However the Heralds of the Gospel accept it, despite having the same origin. I would like to invite fellow Wikipedians with better knowledge of these groups, in particular of the American SDTFP to improve the entry, taking in account all these facts.Mistico Dois (talk) 12:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)