Jump to content

Talk:1992 European Community Monitor Mission helicopter shootdown

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Curious Shit

[edit]

What could he have possibly been charged with? His actions are legally sound. Aadieu (talk) 19:44, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The attack on a civilian aircraft may have constituted a war crime. Opbeith (talk) 09:33, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Only a deliberate attack. I never saw any evidence he knew the aircraft he was shooting at was a civilian one. GregorB (talk) 10:10, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That aside, what's with the article making a point of identifying seemingly every Croat in the Yugoslav National army, mentioning the other pilot who had nothing to do with the incident itself (but who was a Croat), and then failing to mention the nationality of the person who apparently ordered the attack -> Lt. Col. Opačić. Sorry, but this reeks of bias to me. Zlopseto (talk) 08:04, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's the narrative from the sources. Try reading them, and possibly find others that present a different narrative? Apparently this was a power struggle within JNA. The accusation against Opačić wasn't attributed to it, but if you find a source that says he's a Serb (presumably), and that that is relevant to this, add it in. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:24, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on 1992 European Community Monitor Mission helicopter downing. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:11, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

AB-205 or AB-206 ?

[edit]

The Italian article is formal, it is an AB-205, not an AB-206. This is confirmed in the biography of the French officer killed. L'amateur d'aéroplanes (talk) 08:05, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There are now several references that confirm that the shot-down helicopter was an Agusta-built Bell 205A (ie AB205A), registered MM80557 with the Aviazione dell'Esercito (Italian Army aviation). My guess is that the external marking or radio callsign might have been "EC305" (adapted from its former Army code) or "EM-2". Later, Bell 205 / AB205 examples were widely used by UN peacekeeping forces in other conflicts. The second helicopter was an AB206A (not AB206L), identity (registration) not yet traced, pilot Lieutenant Renato Barbafiera. Here are some relevant links: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccidio_di_Podrute https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Venturini (Italian pilot victim), https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_d%27observation_en_Yougoslavie https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/161484 https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Loup_Eychenne (French victim). The Italian Wikipedia article discussion suggests a title change away from a "disaster"; For English Wikipedia, I suggest "1992 Podrute ECMM AB205 shootdown" as a more concise and detailed replacement for the over-long title here. Italian speakers please take this forward. PeterWD (talk) 09:51, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Gosh, that would be a horribly non-descriptive title. Even if the name of the ECMM is long, as an acronym it would not be recognizable at all by the average reader. Podrute likewise, it's a small village that nobody would recognize even locally, let alone in a global audience. And only aviation enthusiasts would recognize the model number of the aircraft. Please see WP:CRITERIA and WP:NDESC for more information.
Fundamentally, the reason this event is notable is because of the impact on that war, and the article name should reflect that, not incident minutiae. --Joy (talk) 11:23, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In the main Italian article, the editors there seem to only take issue with the "Eccidio" (massacre) element of the title "Eccidio di Podrute". My suggestion simply reflects typical forms of article titles here of aircraft accidents and incidents. BTW, my reading of the account makes me think that Renato Barbafiera was one person who took a particularly heroic action, and pleasing that he got some recognition for that.PeterWD (talk) 13:01, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose there's no problem to change "downing" to "shootdown", that seems common elsewhere.
@Tomobe03, @User:Sturmvogel 66, when you were last reviewing this article content for GA status, what did you think about the title? --Joy (talk) 13:08, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Downing is euphemistic like passing in lieu of dying. Let's be plain-spoken about it and call it a shootdown like it was.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 13:22, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Joy @Sturmvogel 66 I agree with the proposed change Tomobe03 (talk) 16:02, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:1992_European_Community_Monitor_Mission_helicopter_shootdown&oldid=1299303203"