Talk:1922 Republic of Central Lithuania general election

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Untitled

Plebiscite? I do doubt it, as the last attempt to host a plebiscite was declared as "failed" by the League of Nations.--Lokyz 16:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PPS?

I'm a bit curious of the passage " and only the Bolshevist Socialist Party of Lithuania and Belarus participated". Russian and polish wiki state that this party was actually called 'Polish Socialist Party of Lithuania and Belorussia', thus not being a 'Lithuanian' party which is implied in the article wording. --Soman (talk) 11:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could you find a reference on this (per WP:RS and WP:V, and it would be more valuable if it would be English)?--Lokyz (talk) 23:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No. I just find pl:Sejm_Orzekający and ru:Виленский_сейм. --Soman (talk) 23:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not the best sources, sadly. No references present there. I do also read Russian and Polish.--Lokyz (talk) 23:18, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

P.S it's an interesting read, nothing at least similar than presented in the en.wiki:)--Lokyz (talk) 23:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Those articles are about the parliament; our is about the election to it.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:45, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Number of deputies

Sources seem contradictory.

Witos states "The two largest political groups in the new parliament were the Association of National Parties and Organizations with 43 seats and the Popular Councils with 34 seats. All the other groups gained 28 seats altogether." This is the same as The primary document which lists: (Association of National Parties and Organizations (43), Popular Councils (34), Polish People's Party of Wilno Land (13), Democratic Party (4), Popular Assosiation "Odrodzenie-Wyzwolenie" (5), Popular Assosiation "Odrodzenie" (3), Polish Socialist Party of Lithuania and Belarus (3)). That would be 105.

But pl wiki article on the Sejm as (unreferenced) the following count for the minor parties (43 and 34 numbers are the same): PSL Ziemi Wileńskiej – 13 (Bronisław Krzyżanowski), PSL Odrodzenie-Wyzwolenie – 6 (Ludwik Chomiński), Stronnictwo Demokratyczne – 4 (Witold Abramowicz), PSL Odrodzenie – 3 (Stefan Mickiewicz), PPS Litwy i Białorusi – 3 (Aleksander Zasztowt), Grupa Włościańskich Rad Ludowych – 7 (Adam Uziembło). That adds up to 36, so the total would be 113. Although the pl wiki article on elections has a different count yet: " Kolejne miejsca zajęły PSL Ziemi Wileńskiej (związane z PSL „Piast”) – 13 miejsc, PSL „Odrodzenie – Wyzwolenie” (związane z PSL Wyzwoleniem) – 6, PSL „Odrodzenie” – 3, Stronnictwo Demokratyczne – 4, PPS Litwy i Białorusi – 3.", minus the GWRL (7), that's 106 total. The difference is in Wyzwolenie count (5 vs 6). GWRL seems to a splinter party created later.

Lithuanian wiki article on the Sejm has an unreferenced total of 106 deputies. Pl wiki does not provide such a count.

This source about the vote for joining Poland states that 96 deputies were for, 6 against, 10 abstained. That's 112.

I cannot find a single source that actually clearly states how many deputies were in the parliament. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:13, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PS. A bit more digging. The number 106 seems to be most common: "Na 106 posłów Rady Ludowe miały 29 przedstawicieli . Sejm wileński ostatecznie".... The sentiment of the delegates was overwhelmingly in favor of annexation ; only eight of the 106 deputies favored a federal solution of the Vilna questiom. Sejm Wileński , zwany też Sejmem Orzekającym - organ przedstawicielski Litwy Środkowej , powolany 8 I 1922 w powszechnych wyborach dla wyrażenia woli ludności w sprawie ... Wyłoniony w wyniku wyborów Sejm składał się ze 106 postów, Sejm Wileński... . 64 % uprawnionych : wybory zbojkotowali Litwini i częściowo Białorusini oraz Żydzi ; izba składała się z 106 posłów. A few other sources confirm this number, but I cannot find any other source for the numbers 105 or 112 and 113.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:17, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some notes:

plwiki led me to a source that gives different election results from the ones in the table, the are published by the "Generalny Komisarjat Wyborczy", stating these results: PCKW - 40 seats, RL - 29, PSL - 12, B.Dm. - 9, Odr. - 7, PPS - 2, SD - 1, Locals - 6 (all Local from "Brasław"), total 106 seats. This is confirmed in the Główny Urząd Statystyczny's document.
Checking in Pierwsze piętnastolecie Polski niepodległej by Adam Próchnik confirms these results, except for "local", which it disambiguates from six "locals" into four Belarusian deputies, and SD which it, I assume, includes in PPS: "...plebiscyt wypadł zatem na korzyść Polski. Centralny Komitet Wyborczy (Nar. Dem.) zdobył 40 mandatów, Rady Ludowe (organizacja o charakterze lokalnym) - 29, "Piast" - 12, "Odrodzenie" (odpowiednik "Wyzwolenia") - 7, demokraci - 9, PPS - 3, Białorusini - 4." Total 104 seats.
I checked the actual source document from this wikipedia page, the source says this on page VI: "Wynik wyborów pod względem podziału mandatów na poszczególne ugrupowania w pierwszych dniach obrad Sejmowych przedstawiał się następująco: Zeszpół Stronnictw i Ugrupowań Narodowych - 43 posłów, Rady Ludowe - 34, Polskie Stronnictwo Ludowe - 13, Stronnictwo Demokratyczne - 4, Odrodzenie-Wyzwolenie - 6, Odrodzenie - 3 i Polska Partia Socjalistyczna - 3 posłów." Total 106 seats. But later on the pages VI-VII it counts 43 for ZSiUP/PCKW, 34 for Rady Ludowe, 13 for PSL, 4 for Stronnictwo Demokratyczne, 5 for Odrodzenie-Wyzwolenie, 3 for Odrodzenie, 3 for PPS and 7 for "Grupa Włościańska", total 112. And on pages X-XII it counts 43 for ZSiUP/PCKW, 26 for Rady Ludowe, 13 for PSL, 6 for Odrodzenie-Wyzwolenie, 3 for Odrodzenie, 4 for Stronnictwo Demokratyczne, 3 for PPS and 7 for Grupa Włościańska, total 105.
"Grupa Włościańska", according to page VII, is a splinter from "Rady Ludowe", as you noticed - I'd say that's where the discrepancy comes from for 112, since if you take the result for Rady Ludowe (34) and subtract 7 for Włościane, you're back below the 106 number, so that could theoretically be showing Rady Ludowe as including the deputies for Grupa Włościańska. Then additionally if one defects from Rady Ludowe to Odrodzenie-Wyzwolenie, you'll have the second number I gave show possibly the number at the beginning of the term plus extra 7 for Grupa Włościańska duplicates (105), and the third number being during a different part of the term, with a Rady Ludowe to Odrodzenie-Wyzwolenie defection. But then you say 112 voted on the incorporation to Poland in one of your sources. I can't for the life of me work with Google Books to show me any of that, and that breaks my theory.
Other possibilities to bring up: the extra six for 112 were unelected/appointed/elected mid-term and thus unincluded in the 106 number from GKW/GUS. Or it could be a clerical error of some sort. Or it could be a number that came from a miscalculation. The 105 number could be coming from one of the deputies losing their seat. Or it could be a clerical error, or miscalculation.
I will say, ultimately, my belief is that the Generalny Komisarjat Wyborczy number is what wikipedia should use, and you see it's confirmed by the Główny Urząd Statystyczny. That also has the party vote count that could (should?) be included in the table. The source document for the current seat count seems to be taking numbers from points all over the Sejm's term, leading to inaccuracies, especially with the 112 number which, seems like a clerical error in my opinion. And as for the 105 number, I guess that comes from a deputy not being seated at some point in the term.

Any thoughts?

@Piotrus @Number 57 Polish kurd (talk) 19:44, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcelus @Volunteer Marek Any thoughts? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:16, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My view right now is to note in the text that sources disagree, citing reliable sources and their differences _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:17, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I doubt the actual electoral commission would get the results wrong in the actual election document they publish, and I assume the current source lists numbers of deputies in parliamentary circles at inauguration. Plwiki also uses these numbers from the electoral authorities now. By the way, does it actually say PCKW anywhere it says 43, and ZSiUP anywhere it says 40? Polish kurd (talk) 01:47, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]